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Technical Skills of the MDS

Topic started by Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-126.il.us.ibm.net) on Sat Aug 15 21:37:27 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi,
In here I wish to compare the technical skills of the MDS - more on ARR and IR What are reasons for ARR being called a technician. Eg: Recording - Raja has used one of the best studio in the country Prasad, which has a clavier recording console (there are only 10-15 of them in the world.) M.Jacksons records uses that. So gadgets wise all the MDS use the same gigs but why ARR's output is crystal clear, Shall we discuss.
(PS: Please do make this into a arr vs IR war)

Srikanth.

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Responses:

• From: venus (@ dwp.esri.com) on: Sun Aug 16 14:10:46 EDT 1998
  
  
  Sabash ! sariyana potty!
  is it going to be nth panipat war between IR fans vs ARR fans.
  Next potential topic can be
  "will western classic masters or mummoorthis
  given the state-of-art tech live upto IR or
  ARR or can they exploit the 24 track recording , mixing etc for their compostition"
  
  Why dont we just analyse (of course from tech point of view) MDs skills without any prejudice and kazhupunarvu?
  
  okay let me start
  ARR has really got good knowledge about electronic media and the way to exploit them to give digital
  (should I call silky touch) to his composition (of course he has started with the digital age). This is very important for the present day musician
  (man.. in competition...it is definitely + point to the MDs).
  I used the mouse at the age of 22 and my niece
  adroitly handles the mouse at 2 years. Mouse is going to be an no more different entity but just an extention. Mouse is just an example.
  (If u start debating it as good or bad or + or -,
  there wont be any end to it, we can go for more n number of wars)
  
  As this topic points to only "Tech" let me stop here. Enough is talked (warred!) about the quality and complexity of his music.
  
  IR really lack the "digital jalam". But I wonder some of his recordings are really at par with others eg Dhalapthy, Anjali, KM. Whatdoes it mean?
  The reason can be he does not care for the "digital jalam" in all of his movies or for those movies he had a good sound technician.
  (again man competition......bla bla). IR sapthathin (analog) nadiyai pidithavar not the
  digital sapthathin nadi. If he catches the digital nadi man then I am sure that only sky is the limit for him. I dont thing it will be very tough
  for him. Bcoz after all he is the man who brought
  stereo recording to TFM (with the help of KJY) and
  computerised recording in poonagai mannan, Anjali etc. Just to change the mindset. But is he really interested in it ?
  Expecting a healthy discussion certainly not a
  war (after all we are all from picec loving nuclear armed country!)
  
  
  
  
• From: venus (@ 104.los-angeles-06.ca.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Aug 16 14:52:12 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry for the mistakes....
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-254.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Aug 16 19:15:00 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Venus,
  Good thoughts, Arr knows the digital scenerio as he is keyboard player, basically keyboard players are exposed to more technical stuff than the other artists.This is because the mordern keybords and syths warrents to know it 100%, it is not easy to generate a patch (a sound) with mixing of 10 different kinds of wave patterns.
  To make a sound you need to codify the attack rate, decay rate over time, the effects masala to add over the sound (at times Thalai soothum).
  ARR has experimented much with sound, he used Korg o1/w keybaord to produce thiruda thiruda,
  Korg 01/w is a monster keyboard which has been now replaced with a new monster - Korg Trinity.
  A composer should learn even the technical aspect of composing. The time we are living now forces a composer to use a sequencer, a digital composer, etc etc, I feel Just a score sheet with harmonium or piano days are over.
  
  Our Man Raja has to depend upon keyboards players and sound engineers until he learns it. Frankly Karthick Raja knows more digital than his father.
  But in Kadhala Kadhla though the score is good, the balancing of sound is not upto the mark,
  The voice level goes up , beat goes up..
  Infact in the song which raja sings (tkida anachi) the voice level is no balanced at all and clearly indicates punch in punch out mistakes.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.28.153) on: Mon Aug 17 16:54:01 EDT 1998
  
  By technical skills we refer not only to recording and mixing but also the way a song is orchestrated. It is quite obvious that IR is one among the very few musicians who have thier violins and flutes played not by the synthesizers but by the players themselves. It is a fact that clarity is lost when original instruments are used and nuances are at stake when synthesizers are used. It is this which makes a ARR recordings clearer less complicated
  
  Has anybody seen the violin that "Kanyakumari" plays? It has digital output unit and the clarity is highly appreciative. The "How to name it " violins are in no match for that. But, I hope everybody has heard the interludes of "GURU". They are as clear as that of ARR songs and this I hope is because IR had filled his troupe with violins of Kanyakumari's types. I wish to hear a simlar one for the Maruthanayagam too.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 17 20:13:05 EDT 1998
  
  Great topic, Srikanth. This comes very close to articulating what I have always felt about ARR and IR. When IR composes for different instruments in a song he should have live musicians record it. The keyboard drums used in "Vaanaththu Thaaragaiyo" sound very elementary and hollow, too bad because the tune is one of the best I have heard this year. I wish IR had used a real drummer and real drums instead of keyboard drums, or he should have stuck with Indian rhythm instruments which offer amazing variety and richness ("Sandhaikku Vandha Kili", "Maanguyilae" by IR have irresistable beats).
  ARR seems to know how to use keyboards extensively as that's his forte. IR is a composer first and foremost, although he knows to play a variety of instruments. IR should use real musicians as he did in his early years to get justice for his elaborate compositions. The reason I often refer to the richness of old IR tunes could probably be attested to the time he took for each movie, and the real musicians he used for every instrumental interlude. It may proove time-consuming and expensive to use that many musicians for every song these days, but we are surely being shorted as a result. Just listen to the amazing array of instruments and orchestration in the songs from "Priya", "Nizhalgal", "Ullaasapparavaigal". No one can doubt IR's knowledge in using Western and Indian instruments. It may be the fact that he has resorted to use Keyboards for recording his songs that deplete his recent tunes off their richness. One of the reasons "Chinnakounder" and "Kizhakku Vaasal" songs excelled in the 90s was due to the lack of keyboard sounds in them. One should stick to his strengths. If IR needlessly wants to go after the keyboard sound, then he should take time to learn it himself instead of relying on lesser musicians.
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-tr054.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Aug 17 21:03:38 EDT 1998
  
  Technical skill is some hidden quality in individuals which becomes tangible upon transformation into a product. It is hard to believe that someone possesses extra-ordinary skills unless he/she is able to convert it into saleble commodity. What are the selling components in MUSIC(esp. Tamil Film Music)? it is the tune, melody, rythm and creativity. (here is a simple thought, 'creativity is something NEW and ATTRACTIVE'). Just by learning pseudo-technical keyboad knowledge and by lifting tunes from others one does not become the best MD. We had those days where guys had to be contained with mono recording techniques. I like those oldies compared to the high-profile, digitally recorded extravaganza POP(like) numbers of today.What is the factor that makes one listen to TF songs over and over? is it just the technology? if this is true, then we would all would have outgrown songs of 60s, 70s and 80s. Moreover why should a MD steal the job of a keyboard player or guitarist or a sound engineer who are trained specialists in their own field, and break his head learning what are the pit-falls in analog recording as against digital recording. These can only be 'academic interests' to the MDs and should not become their full-time field of research which may become counter-productive. IMO, MDs are more systhesizers than analyzers (in systems terminology and NOT in 'electronics' terms), with an objectvie to create high quality music. They are like those shop-floor managers who run factory with specialist engineers. They donot have to become experts in every field otherwise the results would be disastrous. Some MDs are tranied already in one or more instruments even as they were grooming.But, IMO that can not become a qualifying factor for becoming a best MD. If ARR is a best keyboard player or a best sound engineer, you can not expect all other MD's learn the science of acoustics. It is like asking a Factory Manager to go do master's degree in metallurgy when he is few years away from retirement! I remember these lines (as i write this) of kannadasan in 'parama sivan kazhuthilirundu ' from sUrya kanthi,
  
  "Yaarum irukkum idathil irunthu konDal ellAm sowkiyamE , garudan sonnathu, athil ARTHAM uLLathu"
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Aug 17 21:33:35 EDT 1998
  
  Observer, I don't see how your floor-manager analogy applies to a music director. I mentioned that for a complex conmposer such as IR, his compositions should be rendered without sacrificing the complexity. One can connect the dots of a rhythm piece by just going through the motions or strive to get a fuller sound that defies prerecorded rhythm loops.
  I'm not expecting or asking IR to learn anything new, I'm just saying that if he wishes to compete with ARR in the techno level, then he should get better versed with it so he can do Keyboards justice.
  BTW, if MDs hope to render good recordings they would certainly benefit from learning the science of acoustics.
  I love old songs dating from MKT. Are you telling me that it wouldn't sound good if someone picked up old studio tapes of MKT and recorded them in digital? That is absurd. There is a difference between re-mixing (which I hate) and recording to preserve the old songs without the hiss and scratch. Case in point--listen to digitally remastered Jazz CDs. They bring the sound of yesteryears brilliantly alive. You need not sacrifice the composition by using technology. If you believe technology is an enemy then you are just being a technophobe.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-100.il.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Aug 17 21:48:35 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Observer: Asusual I dont agree with you sir, MD should learn the technical side, the recording, using mordern machines it is a must, it is like learning computer usage - if everyone had adopted your policy no one would have created a internet, no one would have surfed. Mds should use the instruments and encourage the electronic scientists to come out with new tech stuff. , ARR was just a "vazikati" towards better sound qulity - if not Arr someone or someonr of other would have bought it in.
  Presentday - Recording quality is 100% vital, if MDS are not aware or not interested to learn digital gigs, they should listen to Sound engineer and ask them what they want, Raja did not do it due is huge % of Ego, he decided - he pays for it now. Once again, I dont want it this to be a war on arr vs ir.
  
  Murali:I dont agree with you either, Raja's bad habit to is overlap a keyboard flute combination over a real flute- - I can take many songs - hear is properly, a keyboard flute will be chasing the original flute.
  
  But I agree with you ARRs recordings are very complicated., he finds new sounds - for example the tambourine sound in Kanalane in bombay - is not found in any synths I know, Many of us have tried to get this sound, but later came to know ARR has sampled it himself use a real tambourine.
  
  It is very simple for anyone to accuse ARR as a copier, 10 nal sit on the console day and night, apo therium swami.
  
  Mds should know tech stuff, it is a must now, Raja has to learn that, his musial abilities does not justify not learning it.
  
  Srikanth
  
  

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