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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1: Iyarkai Varnanai

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Mon Jul 6 13:36:50 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In comparing Kannadhaasan and Vairamuthu objectively, why don't we all prove to ourselves that we don't need to take sides with a poet and only take sides with good poetry? I can come up with enough examples for both poets and I'm sure many others can too. Let's consider this a tiny saevai for TFM lyrics. I will gladly set forth the categories that we can judge the two poets by and we can all go to work. If anything I hope this exercise will make one diehard fan of Kannadhaasan appreciate VM and vice versa.
Here are the categories to judge both poets by giving examples of lyrics they wrote for TFM:
1)Iyarkai Varnanai
2)Kaadhal Paadalgal
3)Thaththuva Paadalgal
4)Vaarthai Prayoagam
5)Nagaichchuvai Paadalgal
6)Samudhaaya Seerthirutha / Puratchi Paadalgal
7)Vingyaana/Naveena Karuthoottum Paadalgal
8)Ilakkiya Moolam Ulla Paadalgal
9)Kadhaikku Porundhiya Paadalgal(situational songs)
10)Kavidhai Milekarkal (Poetic Milestones that the poets will be remembered by!)

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Responses:

• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 6 13:42:37 EDT 1998
  
  Okay folks, the rules to abide by are clearly spelled out in the following exchange (edited for brevity) between Kanchana and Sathiya Keerthi. Let's abide by them.
  
  From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Jul 3 21:28:21 EDT 1998
  ...without a serious study we cannot simply dismiss off VM. In doing this serious study, we should not bring the personal side of the two greats. (We should exclude any arrogant statements made by them, the way they lived etc.) What is needed is a detailed study of their contributions. iruvarukkum podhuvaana ondru: thiraippadangaLil
  paadalgaL. Compare the contributions of the two, one topic at a time? appadi naam seydhaal oru vELai yaar yaarai vendraar enbadhu theLivaagum. adhuvarai, yaar enna mudivu sonnaalum adhu veRum uNarchchimayamaana mudivu mattumE!
  
  
  From: Kanchana (@ spider-td063.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 3 23:49:30 EDT 1998
  
  There are some critical factors which need to be considered IF Kannadhasan and Vairamuthu are to be compared:
  1. differences in what is the focal point of the movie in their respective eras--strong storyline/strong characters/techhnical wizadry;
  2. differences due to being constrained by an MD's pre-set tune versus a free thought flow restrained only by the lyricist's own choice of chandham/meter with some input from the MD;
  3. differences in the approach to verse composition--ilakkiyam derivatives versus pudhukkavidhai derivatives;
  4. differences in values, attitudes, lifestyles, lingo of the society at large in TN, which the movies do have to reflect or exaggerate as they attempt to cater to the "mass" audience.
  
  So, it is definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison, IMHO. The above differences do need to be factoredinto any comparison for any such comparison to be 100% analytical and objective.
  
  From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Sat Jul 4 01:23:38 EDT 1998
  
  Who knows, we could come up with a
  bunch of specific conclusions such as..
  In philosophical songs Kannadhasan is much
  superior and VM's contribution is minimal; or, aRiviyal patri nandraaga sonnavar VM-thaan etc. If we can do this, then we would have achieved what the discussion group in 'Kungumam'(consisting of personalities such as Valamburi John and Vaishali Kannadhasan) couldn't achieve; such a research will be publishable and could lead to great exposure for the forum!
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 6 13:46:17 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry, folks let me add one more thing. There is a lot of introductory material for this thread since it is the first in the symposium. So please stick to just the first topic, Iyarkai Varnanai for this thread and we will move on to other topics when this topic is filled to the brim.
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate2.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Jul 6 13:59:26 EDT 1998
  
  Udhya,
  Actually I was thinking to discuss which topic we should take first. But you have already started the thread. Let us start...
  
  Ok... Here is a example of KaNNadhasan's iyarkai varuNaNai...
  
  Song:- Senthazham Poovil Vandhaum Thendral
  Padam:- MuLLum MaLarum..
  Singer:- K.J.Yesudas..
  The very good lines...
  
  1.VaLaindhu N-ELindhu pogum paadhai mangai mega kundhalO
  
  2.paLLam silar uLLam ena en padaithan aaNdavan
  
  3. idhazhai varudum paniyin kattru kamban saitha varNaNai, odai tharum vaadaikkattru vaan ulagai kaNNudhu
  
  could any one see this kind of lines from VM's song?? KaNNadhasan keep the subject from the begining till the end of the song. Did VM write such a song like that??
  
  Patti Mandram aarambam.. thodarattum 'Sakthi' madhiri kELVi kaNNaigaL, 'Puthar Sirippu' pol padhil kaNNaigaL. :):):)
  
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate2.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Jul 6 14:00:46 EDT 1998
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 6 14:09:16 EDT 1998
  
  
  closing bold and Italics.
  Prakash, thanks for starting the thread with a classic, but we are trying to avoid the Patti Mandram tone since it would be counterproductive. So please continue your contribution and briefly say why you like the excerpt you give and as hard as it may be please refrain from taunting the other poet. I feel like such a hypocrite for saying this here because I have broken this rule in other threads. But let's all keep this one an objective symposium guys.
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate4.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Jul 6 14:11:41 EDT 1998
  
  Udhya..
  I agree with you... Let us discuss
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 6 14:25:34 EDT 1998
  
  VM in debut paadalae iyarkaikku samarpanam.
  
  Paadal: idhu oru ponmaalaip pozhudhu
  
  
  idhu oru ponmaalaip pozhudhu
  vaanamagal naanugiraal vaeru udai poonugiraal
  (vaanukku pennin sthaanathaik koduthhu avalukku naanamum aadaiyum soodip paarkiraan indhap pudhuk kavingyan)
  . . .
  aayiram nirangal jaalamidum raaththiri vaasalil koalamidum
  vaanam iravukkup paalamidum paadum paravaigal thaalamidum
  poomarangal saamarangal veesaadhoa
  . . .
  vaanam enakkoru bhoadhi maram naalum enakkadhu saedhi tharum
  (indha bodhi mara nizhalil pirandhu innum pala iyarkai kavidhaigal punaindhirukkiraan Vairamuthu)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Mon Jul 6 14:49:26 EDT 1998
  
  Paadal: ilaiya nilaa pozhigiradhae
  ilaiya nilaa pozhigaradhae idhayam varai nanaigiradhae
  ulaap poagum maegam kanaak kaanudhae vizhaakkaanudhae vaanamae
  . . .
  varum vazhiyil pani mazhaiyil paruva nilaa dhinam nanaiyum
  mugileduththu mugam thudaiththu vidiyum varum nadai pazhagum
  vaana veedhiyil maega oorvalam kaanumboadhilae aarudhal tharum
  paruva magal vizhigalilae kanavu varum
  . . .
  mugilinangal alaigiradhae mugavarigal tholaindhanavoa
  mugavarigal thavariyadhaal azhudhidumoa adhu mazhaiyoa
  neela vaanilae velli oadaigal oaduginradhae enna jaadaigal
  vin veliyil vidhaiththadhu yaar nava manigal
  (pillaikku soar oottikondirundha nila, Vairamuthuvin kaigalil enennavoa seigindradhu. Idhu verum paadal alla idhu muzhumayaana oru kavidhai)
  
  Idharku inayaaga Kannadhaasan iyarkaiyai pala vidhangalil varnithha paadal,
  Paadal: iyarkai ennum ilaya kanni
  
  iyarkkai ennum ilaya kanni
  aengugiraal thunaiyai enni
  
  thalaiyai viriththuth thennai poaraadudhoa
  edhanai ninaiththu ilaneeraadudhoa
  kanni unnaik kandadhaaloa
  thannaiyallith thandhadhaaloa
  
  ilaigal maraththukkenna maelaadaiyoa
  idaiyai maraiththuk kattum noolaadaiyoa
  kattik konda kalvan yaaroa
  kalvanukku enna paeroa
  
  ponnidaththin mellidaiyil poovaada
  pottu vaiththa vanna mugam neeraada
  ponnidaththin mellidaiyil poovaada
  pottu vaiththa vanna mugam neeraada
  thaamaraiyaal aen siriththaal
  thalaivanukkoa thoodhu vittaal
  
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate7.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Jul 6 16:51:10 EDT 1998
  
  kaNNadhasan paadal...
  
  Paadal:- Kodiyasaindhathum kattru vanthatha?
  Film:- Parthal Pasi Theerum
  Singers:- TMS, P.Suseela
  
  Part of the song about "Iyarkai"
  
  kodi asaindhathum kattru vanthatha?
  kattru vandhathal kodi asaidhthatha?
  Nilavu vandhathum malar malarnthatha?
  malar malarndhathal N-ilavu vanthatha?
  
  
  ....More to come..
  
  
  
• From: tester (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jul 6 20:51:54 EDT 1998
  
  closing italics
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ spider-tp054.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 6 21:16:25 EDT 1998
  
  Vairamuthu-vin iyarkai varuNaNai...
  Padam:- ThendralE ennai Thodu
  Padal:- thendral vandhu ennaith thodum...
  Singers:- K.J.Y & Uma Ramanan
  
  thendral vandhu ennaith thodum
  oru sathamindri muthamidum
  pagalE poividu
  iravE paikodu
  N-ilavE .....
  
  More to come... (Italics closed....already)
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jul 6 21:26:04 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya & Prakash:
  
  mmmm... iyaRkai varNanaiyaa? I don't know how many songs we can
  find. But possibly, there are many songs where nature is brought
  in while a kaadhalan describes his kaadhali. Shall we include
  such songs too? Even senthaazham poovil is one such example,
  is it not?
  
  A Kannadhasan song that comes to my mind... from the movie, 'Paasam'.
  The hero sings in a happy mood soon after a newly found freedom from
  jail. He enjoys the nature around and sings...
  
  ulagam piRandhadhu enakkaaga
  Odum nadhigaLum enakkaaga
  malargaL malarndhadhum enakkaaga - annai
  madiyai viriththaaL enakkaaga
  
  kaatril midhakkum oligaLilE
  kadalil thavazhum alaigaLilE
  iRaivan iruppadhai naanaRivEn
  ennai avanE thaanaRivaan
  
  thavazhum nilavaam thanga radham
  thaaragai padhiththa maNimagudam
  kuyilgaL paadum kalaikkoodam
  koNdadhu enadhu arasaangam
  
  
  More later.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jul 6 21:47:13 EDT 1998
  
  adadaa, indha Kannadhasan masterpiece-ai maRakka mudiyumaa?
  
  thennai iLam keetrinilE thaalaattum thendraladhu
  thennai thannai saayththuvidum puyalaaga varum pozhudhu
  
  aatrangkarai mEttinilE aadi niRkum naaNaladhu
  kaatradiththaal saayvadhillai kanindhamaram veezhvadhillai
  
  naaNalilE kaaleduththu nadandhu vandha peNmai idhu
  naaNam ennum thendralilE thottil kattum menmai adhu
  
  
  innOru paadal. idhai paadum peNNukku pudhidhaaga kaadhal
  vandhirukku. In the nature around her she finds a number
  of lovable unions that give further motivation for her
  love...
  
  chittukkuruvi muththam koduththu
  sErndhidak kaNdEnE
  chevvaanam kadalinilE
  kalandhidak kaNdEnE
  mottu virindha malarinilE
  vaNdu moozhgidak kaNdEnE
  moongililE kaatru vandhu
  mOdhidak kaNdEnE
  
  azhagaana varigaL!
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jul 6 23:24:00 EDT 1998
  
  oru graamaththu aaL oru pattaNap peNNukku paadal sollith tharum
  situation... Kannadhasan azhagaaga iyarkaiyai ubayOgap paduththi
  uLLaar... (padam: Praptham)
  
  sandhanaththil nalla vaasam eduththu
  ennai thadavik koNdOdudhu thennang kaaththu
  andharaththil reNdu pachchai kiLigaL
  nalla aalOlam paadudhu unnai paaththu
  
  sevvaazhai thOttamum thennai iLa neergaLum
  themmaangu paadudhu nammai paaththu
  singaara thONigaL pallaakku pOl vandhu
  oorkOlam pOvadhum nammai kEttu
  
  panneeru poocharam pachchai pullu mEdaiyil
  pattuppOl kidappadhum namakkaaga
  thaNNeeru Odaiyil sala sala Osaiyil
  sangeedham kEppadhum namakkaaga
  
  maamaavin poNNukku aagaasa mEgangaL
  sElai katti paakkudhu aasaiyOdu
  naan paakka koodaadha pollaadha vaanaththil
  maaman magaL pOgudhu naaNaththOdu
  
  naaLaachchu vaavendru meenaachchi kOyilil
  maNiyOsai kEppadhum namakkaaga
  naaLaachchu endraalum poo vaasam varumendru
  meenaachchi sonnadhum namakkaaga
  
  
  ip paadalil maaman magaL endru kavinjar edhai
  kuRikkiRaar? nilavaiyaa?
  
  

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