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ANALYSIS - REASONS FOR ILAYARAJA'S DECLINE IN TFM MARKET : THINGS BEYOND THE CONTROL

Topic started by SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-20.bellatlantic.net) on Sat Jan 3 00:35:56 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.138) on: Wed Jan 27 01:24:13 EST 1999
  
  Vijay is right about the So Gaya song. We have discussed this issue earlier too. The similarity in the tune spanning to just two words doesn't make either of the two, a 'copied' number.
  
  I had a good laugh when the veteran Hindi music director, Rajesh Roshan while justifying his lifting of some ARR and Vidyasagar songs, said that EVEN ARR has copied Hindi songs. When the interviewer asked him to mention which one, he said that the 'Muquabla' song from 'Kadhalan' was a copy of 'Pyar Hua Ikraar Hua' from Raj Kapoor's classic, 'Shri 420'. I was fuming when the interviewer was pleased with the answer (so that he can quote thus: "Rahman too Copies. And from where else but Hindi")
  
  If you hum both the songs, you'll notice that the similarity ends in the words 'Muquabala' and 'Pyar hua' following similar notes and that's it! Will you term this as a copy?
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Jan 27 04:09:28 EST 1999
  
  Neels,
  
  I too had a good laugh when RajeshRoshan said that.It was for that "EVEN" :-)))))))))
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.26) on: Wed Jan 27 15:01:51 EST 1999
  
  
  Karthi,
  
  Neenga thappa ninaichitteenga. It is not a blind denial. 'ezhudhugiraen oru kadidham' was ok till the the pallavi. As usual, as in most Deva songs, I didn't find the interludes and the charanam that much appealing. Also, I didn't even remember that song till today and only after I saw your posting, I remembered that song. The other songs were not that good. Again, I am saying all this with reference to songs from other KB movies. I can tell all songs in movies like 'Sindhu Bhairavi', 'Punnagai Mannan' even if some one asks me after waking me from my sleep. IMO, Maragadhamani gave some good numbers for the film 'Azhagan' and 'Vaanamae Illai'. 'Jaadhi Malli' was not as good as these two films. 'Duet' had some good songs but 'Kalki' was not up to the mark. I repeat, I am referring to 'Kalki' songs with respect to songs from other KB movies and not in general.
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.26) on: Wed Jan 27 15:06:37 EST 1999
  
  
  Neels,
  
  These HF MDs are always like this. They justify their 'lifting' by saying something like this. In that matter, Deva is better than these guys. I too had a great laugh when I read in a magazine which quoted Anu Malik saying, "I am the best MD in India at present". He said this when giants like MSV, IR and upcoming MDs like ARR were in TFM. These present day HF MDs always have a feeling that they are the best and their music is the best. IMO, many TF musicians are Almighty God's gift to India and they are so modest. It all reminds of me of a proverb - "Empty vessels make more noise'.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jan 27 15:20:22 EST 1999
  
  SM:
  :-))))) Did hear the greaatttuuu Daler Mehendi claim that no South Indian composer worth his salt impressed him ! "Rub Rub, he is 'rub'bing me the wraanga way !" :-)))
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Wed Jan 27 16:30:18 EST 1999
  
  Srinath,
  
  I read about that in some book. For this guy (Daler Mehndi) to give such a statement, either he wouldn't have listened to Thamizh melodies or, if at all he had heard them he would have thought that these songs were by some HF MDs. If both the above assertions are not true and if he claims that he has heard some Thamizh melodies and still feels the same, then why should one worry about guys like him. There are some Daler Mehndi fans also and so I don't want to post some aggressive comments and hurt them. But I can't resist saying this, "Daler Mehndi is not worth even commenting about South Indian music talents like MSV or IR". He has not achieved even 0.00000000000000000001% of what these geniuses have achieved individually and so I don't think we should take this joker's comments seriously.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Wed Jan 27 20:05:31 EST 1999
  
  Srinath, Neels, SM, et al,
  
  Come to think of it the last MD worthy of mention to enter the Hindi Film scene was RDB- in early 60s. The death of HFM started with the advent of Bappi Lahiri who copied from RDB or his own (copy)^n. That is 30+ years without any noteworthy talent. Name one guy and I will give you atleast 5 deficiencies in his music
  Anu Malik, Nadeem Shravan are all mere hoodlums (was'nt one of them in trouble for murder) masquerading as MDs.The tunes are so boring and repetitive. Combine this with the "cheap KK" version of Kumar Sanu's voice or the "jaladosham pidichcha" Udit Narayan voice or for that matter "vaysaana patti keech moochchunu kaththara" Lata/Asha's voice one can pick the poison one wants.
  Sticking to MDs here is something interesting. I had an opportunity to meet Hariprasad Chaurasia at a post concert dinner setting in 1994. He was bragging about how he made a non musician like Amitabh sing Rang Barse in Silsila. Since I was in a wicked mood, I guess, I pointed to him that AB hd already done a similar tune (not note for note but definitely similar structure, raag etc.) in Lawaris - Mere Angney Mey. Despite being a phenomenal musician, HC flatly denied and became aggressively defensive about his tune being "totally different". Being the small fry, I had to politely fake agreement. And this was supposed to be the "quality" MD in HFM!
  I honestly believe HFM died in early 80s.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.6) on: Wed Jan 27 21:30:43 EST 1999
  
  Hi,
  
  I believe that HF MDs have some sort of a complex - definitely inferiority complex, IMO. Because they can't musically compete with IR, or for that matter with ARR also, and so they are giving statements like "I am the best", "South Indian music doesn't impress me" and stuff like that. I don't remember any South Indian MD, even Deva and Sirpi, saying that "I am the best. My music is the best". And they don't bother if some HF MD lift their tune also. They carry on with their work. These highly over-rated North Indian musicians, in fact, actually should be having a high degree of inferiority complex and fear they may be overlooked and so they give comments like this. This is strictly IMO. According to me, Thamizh Film industry has given a lot of talented musicians - MSV, IR, KVM, TMS, SPB, KJY, PS, SJ, KSC and now recently ARR. What more? They definitely don't have such great musicians in their cadre.
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.6) on: Wed Jan 27 21:32:05 EST 1999
  
  The "they" in the last line of my earlier posting refers to HF industry people. And also, it is IMO.
  
  
• From: Clarify (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Thu Jan 28 18:06:22 EST 1999
  
  *The* primary reason for IR's (so called) downfall is the atrocious lyrical content of his songs. Now, dont jump at me and ask me if the other MD's produced songs with better lyrics. On any given day, the lyrical quality for ARR/Vidyasagar etc. was better than that of recent IR lyrics. Even a Vaali was able to produce good lyrics for ARR's Uzhavan.
  
  Even if some of the lyrics in ARR songs were crappy in terms of content, the lay listener fathomed them as high class. And I dont blame them. I recently saw "Sakkarai Thevan", and my god .... the lyrics were simply awful.
  
  L -- O -- V -- E Loveu Loveu
  Maman thantha Poovu Poovu
  
  Does'nt IR know the language enough to insist that the lyricist come up with something better than this? I challenge you guys to come up with ONE IR song from '95 - '98 with outstanding lyrics. Cliched, cheap and mostly meaningless words ... to me most of the words sounded like they were there simply as place holders.
  
  Kadhalakku mariyadhai had decent lyrics, and I was happy --- But my happiness was short lived. Even a high budget album like Kathal Kavithai; or an album with a lot of scope for lyrical excellence like Desiya Geetham; had lyrics that could be called mediocre at best. I am rabidly anti HFM, yet I thought Rasayya songs sounded slightly better in Hindi, mainly because I could not follow the lyrics.
  Dindukallu Dindukallu --
  Gundumalli Samba Nellu
  
  Now tell me what that means? Or what does
  
  "Mamma popooo Ezed A" mean?
  
  If his songs these days are becoming big hits again, it means they are hits inspite of the lyrics. Now just imagine what would happen if the lyrics contributed to the songs beihg a hit .....
  
  Hmm... But then, I always dream a lot.
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Fri Jan 29 16:44:53 EST 1999
  
  
  Clarify,
  
  Do hear to 'kadhai pola thonum' ("Veerathaalaattu"). I feel it is quite meaningful and has also got quality than any other MD's recent songs.
  
  
• From: SM (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Fri Jan 29 16:49:25 EST 1999
  
  And regarding the challenge to list any IR song ('95-'95) with quality lyrics (I won't say outstanding lyrics, as I feel lyrics from the old songs (till early 80s) as outstanding and don't think that any recent songs (let the MD be IR or ARR) are on par with them), I would say lyrics from Kaadhalukku Mariyaadhai would qualify. What about the song 'kannaalae kaadhal kavidhai' (Film : Aathma). It too had quality lyrics. What about songs from the film "Siraichaalai"? Were they short or lyrical content in comparison to lyrics in other MDs songs? Some songs in the film "Naattuppura Paattu" also had some good lyrics. I think I have lived up to the challenge, haven't I?
  
  
• From: Clarify (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sun Jan 31 20:06:07 EST 1999
  
  I agree KM had reasonable lyrics. But were they outstanding? Nope. By no stretch of imagination would I claim that KM or Siraichaalai or Nattupura pattu had lyrics that made my mind tingle. No sir. These are lyrics that sounded good just because you were comparing them against mediocre stuff.
  
  Now, Chinna Chinna Aasai and Porala Ponnuthayi are definitely outstanding -- they won national awards. The last IR movie that had good lyrics was probably Marupadiyum ...
  
  Kannale Kadhal Kavithai had outstanding lyrics. Sorry, but this statement is probably the best indicator of the degrading quality of IR's lyrics.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Feb 1 01:57:24 EST 1999
  
  Clarify(Neenga Karthik thaane?), I wont agree "Chinna Chinna aasai.." was good lyrics.More of nursaery rhyme stuff. Did it win a natl. award? So what?So did Minsara Kanavu for music. So did Amitabh Bachan for Agneepath. So did MGR for Rickshawkaaran.
  MogaMul was after Marupadiyum. Certainly, it was excellent, if not outstanding.
  Which was the last film with outstanding lyrics in *TFM*, anyway?
  I dont see any outstanding stuff after MogaMull. I rest my case there.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Mon Feb 1 01:57:53 EST 1999
  
  Clarify(Neenga Karthik thaane?), I wont agree "Chinna Chinna aasai.." was good lyrics.More of nursaery rhyme stuff. Did it win a natl. award? So what?So did Minsara Kanavu for music. So did Amitabh Bachan for Agneepath. So did MGR for Rickshawkaaran.
  MogaMul was after Marupadiyum. Certainly, it was excellent, if not outstanding.
  Which was the last film with outstanding lyrics in *TFM*, anyway?
  I dont see any outstanding stuff after MogaMull. I rest my case there.
  
  

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