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Is WCM necessary for Tamil film songs?

Topic started by Nazir (@ 172.141.141.155) on Thu Sep 26 07:29:22 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Having WCM knowledge is worthy but is it a must to use it in Tamil film songs? When our lyricists use english words, we shout at our strongest voice but when a Indian MD infuses Western Classical in a tamil song we go ga ga..why is that?
Why did WCM became a measuring factor for Tamil songs?

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Responses:

• From: Speaker (@ 202.95.127.5) on: Thu Sep 26 07:42:32 EDT 2002
  
  Is this posting a necessary as you have posted the same comment in another thread.
  
  
• From: Nazir (@ 172.141.141.155) on: Thu Sep 26 07:52:03 EDT 2002
  
  This is a topic worth discussing thats the reason for this thread
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Thu Sep 26 09:54:45 EDT 2002
  
  That which fits you is good for you. Exspecially if you are an Ir fan. WCM fits you , so it is a muct to have. English words in songs...boy it was allegly introduced by the rival MD, so it is bad.
  You know we humans always take sides.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Thu Sep 26 11:19:06 EDT 2002
  
  Are yaar-as usual,you open your mouth to put your foot into it.
  I think you have not listened to WCM.I have been listening to WCM for the past 15 years and my CD collection runs into hundreds.
  WCM,in my opinion, represents the ultimate in orchestrated music-the principles of orchestration ,whether it be light music or pop music or fil music -all derive from WCM.
  dont you think film music is richer with orchestrated music? Listen to songs from say,haridas or sivakavi-then listen to songs by likes of MSV,which represented a big leap in TFM.
  The ultimate in orchestrated music in tamil is BY IR.I do not say this-when the likes of Balamurali krishna say that IR is the best in this century for orchestration-well,you must listen to them.
  One of the sad trend in curent tfm is absence of songs like poomaliye -which in my opinion is the best orchestrated song in tamil.
  ARR,simply cannot seem to be able to think for multilayered orchestrations at all-he is content with going on and on polishing his songs-but he lacks the capcity to write for mega orcestrations.
  just listen to this piece from Lajja-
  http://www.raajangahm.com/real/bgmscores/lajja/RealAudio/27-lajja.ram
  this was written on a paper,mind you.
  WCM and its knowledge have enriched film music-although the likes of nazir and are yaar would beleive otherwise.
  so when does WCM become irrelevant? when IR is capable of doing it and others cannot do it.
  when does numbers become irrelevant? when it involves IR!
  whendoes BGM become irrelevant? -when IR is better at it.
  guys,wake up.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Thu Sep 26 11:22:00 EDT 2002
  
  http://www.raajangahm.com/bgscores.html
  try this-the above does not work
  
  
• From: Jeera (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Thu Sep 26 12:52:15 EDT 2002
  
  Nazir
  
  Is WCM necessary for TFM - Not Really but what some of the MD's have done is to merge two different classical forms of music - Carnatic and WCM. Shall kind of fusion is a must for any art form to grow.
  
  As for languages, you are comparing two wrong entities. Music is a perfect art form. Music is universal?. Can you say the same for languages.
  
  It is not always that people have opposed use of english words in tamil songs - there are old songs which have been apt for the situations and the english words have been introduced imaginatively.
  
  Also, you should remember that there are great english scholars in India who are appreciated. R.K.Narayanan for instance is recognised. so it is not english itself that we are opposing but rather the sloppy way they are being introduced into songs.
  
  
• From: Jeera (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Thu Sep 26 12:53:53 EDT 2002
  
  'Shall kind of fusion is a must for any art form to grow.' should read 'Such kind of fusion is a must for any art form to grow.'
  
  Sorry typed it in a haste.
  
  
• From: Jeera (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Thu Sep 26 12:54:02 EDT 2002
  
  'Shall kind of fusion is a must for any art form to grow.' should read 'Such kind of fusion is a must for any art form to grow.'
  
  Sorry typed it in haste.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu Sep 26 17:38:02 EDT 2002
  
  Yaaro...I admire your knowledge in WCM...but just because IR has done something doesn't mean ARR should do the same thing to prove his genius or capability.
  
  IF I am an Michelangelo and you are Ramanujam, I dont have to formulate mathematical theories to prove that I am a genius to you and vice versa. I hope you get what I am trying to say.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu Sep 26 17:41:43 EDT 2002
  
  Orchestrations and the like are a bygone era in "Tamil FILM music (see the word film emphasized ?). IR has covered a lot of ground there...and any MD worth his salt should not step in there. ARR is exploring his own originality and he is GOOD at what he does. If you dont like it, that's your taste. Nobody is denying IR's musical capabilities but it is too bad to expect all the others to do what he has done.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu Sep 26 17:42:50 EDT 2002
  
  Typo, change the word GOOD to GREAT.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Thu Sep 26 17:48:59 EDT 2002
  
  cosmician ,
  I appreciate what you say-I was merely responding to Are yaar's posting.
  In fact ,in the other thread on wcm,I have mentioned veerapaandi kottaiyile song as a good eg of operatic type of music.Ay has not mentioned ARR's name-but we know about AY.
  BTW,
  I am just a listener in WCM-i listen to it extensively.dont make me a 'big guy' by saying I am knowledgeable !
  I strongly recommend to Dfers interested in listening to wcm to this website-
  http://www.classicfm.com
  click to online listening-the presentation is excellent,so light.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu Sep 26 18:04:42 EDT 2002
  
  Yaaro..NOM :-)
  And yes, I know why Are Yaar is so extremist. Can't blame him. But then it becomes a question of who started it...did the egg come first or the chicken ?
  The only solution is to Cease fire and open a thread for talks ;-). Do you think this will work ?
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Thu Sep 26 18:53:08 EDT 2002
  
  Cosmician
  "Do you think this will work ?"
  
  Why not? Ambleen and God have already provided the start up for a ceasefire, didn't they?
  
  
• From: kk (@ 192.11.187.113) on: Thu Sep 26 19:27:33 EDT 2002
  
  WCM knowledge is not *realy* necessary to be a good tfm MD. But ..
  
  .. if a MD wants or tries to use WCM kind of arrangement, with out realy trying to learn what it is, and doesnt want to improve, he can be critizied.
  
  This is like, subbudu will critize if some one trys to use carnatic music and does it poorly ...
  He wont care if you do a rock or jazz.
  
  So if you want to use wcm or carnatic or any music..you got play by some minimum rules and familiarity.
  
  WCM is a style, using it may add value to a song.
  Like that a lyrist can borrow a style from a english of different culture song. no problem.
  Like haiku..is a kind of pudu kavithai. Its a style. But using words like olive oil, cell phone etc dont make sense.
  
  Also, words that are not culturaly familiar will sound odd. Like say, rail in a tamil song wont do much harm, thought is actualy english. But Aeroplane or space ship...will sound odd.
  
  IMO, any usage of word tht attract unnesscary attention makes a song sound bad.
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Thu Sep 26 19:58:51 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumudi, if not ambleen and God (NOM to you two), there will be someone else. indha sandai coffee-toffee ad maadhiri oyavey oyaadhu!!
  
  IS WCM necessary? difficult not to have it. we are so much used to this kind of music. I am basing my opinion on the assumption that concepts like polyphony, chords belong entirely to WCM. it would be nothing short of a revolution to do away with them. and it would go against current populist trend of homogenization of music to western contemporary pop genre.
  
  so, we are left with monophonic desi music - carnatic, hindustani, folk. we have evolved from the carnatic style of the 40s, 50s era. getting back to purely carnatic mode doesn't look like a popular choice anymore. I'm doubtful if hindustani would work too. that leaves us with folk. deva's gaanas have been successful. maybe some clever MD can give us some folksy hits leaving out the IR-style WCM-folk combo. but will the Western-looking crowd listen?
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Thu Sep 26 21:25:41 EDT 2002
  
  Yaaro:
  I wanted reactions and I got it. I never said that IR was wrong in using WCM. Infact it is his strength. But I wanted to Cheendify. I did that. You know why.
  See your reaction. You could not tolerate when some one tries to question your Fav.MD's real strength. You try to give a fitting reply and you start with giving a correct reply by being very specific to the subject (Even though, you attacked me little bit..No probs). Now think about me and my group. When some one questions ARR real strength which is his techno music, then we try to give our opinion. The problem starts when the opposing side insists on what it says and even though they knew it is a junk. Fight starts and the personal attack gets too bad.
  Look at my post, I eneed the matter here. I never countered what you said. This doesn't mean I agree with you completely but, I am ending this here because I knew what I wrote before is has no stuff. I knew I did it to extract reaction.
  Why am I saying this here. ? This is to let you people know what you are doing exactly.
  Don't cross your line. We will never bother you.
  
  Might not be for you, but this post should help some of the others.
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 66.176.161.168) on: Thu Sep 26 21:57:29 EDT 2002
  
  Are Yaar - you are an idiot. And so are Ambleen, Awe, OISG and the other morons that have stalked this forum for the last few months. You are no better or no worse than these scumbags. Get rid of this Im-so-good-and-other-people-provoke me routine, and go back to your IR is crap routine - at least that sounds honest.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.50.7) on: Fri Sep 27 03:21:36 EDT 2002
  
  Are Yaar,
  Iam honored for being singled out and at the same time quaking in my boots!
  Any way ,I will take cosmician's advice.
  BTW,
  did you listen to either lajja clip or classic fm website?I really doubt it.
  
  
• From: WN (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Fri Sep 27 04:39:11 EDT 2002
  
  C'mon Nazir, get real. If IR has used WCM extensively, then the RULE is wcm is not only necessary, without it a TFM song can't be a song (unless, the WCM-less song happens to be by IR). Ok? Pls understand these things and dont put ur foot in ur mouth. Remember u r dealing wit extremely talented IR Fans here.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Fri Sep 27 04:45:29 EDT 2002
  
  WN, i agree-songs from kadhal oviyam,sagarasangamam,sindhubairavi,aalapana,moghamull,rudraveena all fall in this category. dont you chaps think before you type-or you too are suffering from foot in the mouth disease?
  
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