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Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema

Topic started by Ramakrishna (@ 209.179.214.237) on Thu Jan 3 22:23:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In the 80's and before, Tamil movies and songs had a flavor that made them unique. But in the 90's, there has been a slow but sure trend in Tamil movies where they have become more and more North-Indianized or even MTVised (if there is such a term).

Songs don't feature south Indian instruments like Nadhaswaram or the mridangham any more. Even the days of rich violin orchestrations of Illayaraja or Viswanathan Ramamurthy are over. Instead, the music has become more techno/pop and were it not for the lyrics, one cannot even recognize a lot of songs as being Indian, let alone Tamil.

Speaking of lyrics, the less said the better. Apart from being nonsensical, the heavy use of English phrases makes one wonder if these lyricists have secret desire to start a career with Motown.

Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.

How many times these days does a lead actress wear a saree and has a pottu? I mean, other than in Vijayakanth films.

Even other things insignificant ranging from background score to rolling credits at the end are blindly copied from Hollywood.

For me in my youth, a major portion of my cultural exposure to south Indian culture was through Tamil movies. I am afraid the current and future generations may not have that opportunity. Instead they would be stuck with watching dubbed Hindi movies because that is what Tamil movies these days essentially are.

I am not a Hindi basher but it is sad that regional language films are losing their identities to this relentless MTVisation.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.246) on: Fri Jan 4 16:53:32 EST 2002
  
  Trend,
  
  no,no,no,no,no...sonnadhu sonadhudhan. hope ur English teacher sees that:)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.254) on: Fri Jan 4 16:55:53 EST 2002
  
  KS,
  OK :-)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Fri Jan 4 17:01:37 EST 2002
  
  Now I hope people realize the harmful effects of the open economy and open satellite space that we adopted a decade ago.
  
  Our culture is not strong/good enough to withstand the competition from the west(or the north). Knowing this fully well, did we start, the anti-hindi slogans in madras in the past.
  
  the box has been opened and all we can do is see and watch it die...
  
  ofcourse you will have ur credit cards , pizza corners and burger shops where you can go to and console yourself on the death of tamil identity..
  
  i am sure u can "ecnourage" all the people you meet in disco's and pubs to start being native tamil..
  
  huh! first find out the source for all this nonsense!
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.128.246) on: Fri Jan 4 17:33:18 EST 2002
  
  Bharath,
  
  Don't worry. IR will not let that (death) happen to TFM:)
  
  just kidding...am I?:)
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Fri Jan 4 17:34:19 EST 2002
  
  Why do you need a Tamil identity ? Conformance to a pre-determined identity would also be imitation, wouldn't it ? Cinema music being a free form type of music cannot be dictated to.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.49.162) on: Fri Jan 4 18:19:57 EST 2002
  
  I remembered the last carnatic music based movie in tamil-Moghamull!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Jan 4 21:09:03 EST 2002
  
  Yes, let's listen to Observer. Ban all Identities. Let's all take on names like Anonymous, HereThere, OutoftheWorld,CallMeCrazy. Let's talk in a language which is not our mother-tongue (as that is pre-determined and would be an imitation) or better still not talk at all (that way there would be no imitators and no understanding... oru kal,erendu manga - chool!) Let's not dictate to film music or film MDs or film directors. Let's just line up, give our money, watch song-dance, clap-clap-clap. Let's smile, as free form is free form and free form will not be contained. Let's say free form is me, I am for free form (I don't get what they are saying, but they are original and it sounds trendy, and that's also chool!) Let's nod at each other and try to communicate this: I am dumb. You are happy. You are dumb. I am happy. Free form is good for all of us. Long live Free Form.
  
  (That felt real good :-) )
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Fri Jan 4 21:49:36 EST 2002
  
  There is trend in these parts of the world where a subculture (noticeably) colours its/their hair neon-green and electric-pink with KoolAid and other such chemicals. Now, do I have to really analyse this "trend" to persuade myself that I am not a trend-junkie? The same can apply to a whole genre of (MTV -EmptyV?) music...and EmptyV hosts. Please. Spare the rigor.
  
  
• From: VR (@ 66.188.201.72) on: Fri Jan 4 22:11:56 EST 2002
  
  There is a difference between people like SPB who may be from Andhra who sing tamil songs, and the people who mutilate Tamil songs by singing them today, with atrocious pronounciation, Let me paraphrase the composer Vaali from SPB's felicitation function a few years ago. He said: "The one thing I have admired about SPB more than anything else is his pronounciation of Tamil. You may wonder why I appreciate that...but SPB is not a Tamilian. Even so he has respected the language so much, to the extent that to this day I have never heard him mispronounce even a single Tamil word so far...." I think SJ, PBS, etc all took care about Tamil pronounciation . The MD's and lyricists were proud enough of Tamil to demand that. In fact at the same SPB function, MSV stated that when he firts heard SPB he told him and I paraphrase: "you have a good voice...but plese go and learn to speak tamil well and then come and meet me in a couple of years....(Everyone knows what happened next.. SPB returned and sang Nilave Ennidam and that was it...)
  
  I am using SPB as an example.. Many tamil singers of the 80's and before may not have been from Tamil Nadu, but no one including KJY murdered Tamil the way late 90's and early 00's songs did and do...
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Fri Jan 4 22:13:34 EST 2002
  
  >>Why is Technology seen as Progress - when all evidence is contrary to the claim<<
  Hahaha! Yes Naaz, bad technology...bad bad technology! If not for technology, i'll probably be helping my mum wash the clothes (hey, wait a min, the washing machine is doing that) or helping her do the dishes (oh wait a sec, wat r dishwashers for) instead of reading something some person called Naaz from Nth America writes on the 'internet' (bad bad technology).
  And bad bad ARR for using technology and bad bad IR for using technology (even if older technology).
  Who r u kidding Naaz? Without technology there won't be radios, cds, recording studios, or any of the many things related to technology advances. Pls pull out ur dinosaur head from under the ground.
  
  
  
  And speaking of Tamil 'kolai' in general, I always wanted to find out about this. I've lived outside India all my life (in Spore and Australia) and wherever I go, all NRI Tamils call their mums 'amma'. Even those who call their dads 'daddy' (which i find damned irritating) call their mums 'amma'. But these days, it looks like all Tamil kids from TN call their mothers 'MUMMY'! What the hell is that?! I simply don't understand. I met several families who recently migrated from TN and some who jus came here for a visit and they call their mums 'MUMMY'. And i watched the sun tv show (the one where the kids dress up and talk rubbish), and whenever the host asks them who taught them the lines, they go...."MUMMY"!!!
  What's wrong with these kids?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.86.26) on: Fri Jan 4 22:34:27 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  What whynot says is not totally wrong. Everything has +s and -s. If we want the benefits of new technology, we have to share its disadvantages.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri Jan 4 23:58:27 EST 2002
  
  imo (do you want to listen?)
  
  the art, music (in broader sense including lyrics) is a brain child of person's creativity. One may use tools and technologies that help in giving the OUTPUT of this brainchild in better manner, whereas using it as a small or big part in creativity itself is what is being blamed. allowing the gadgets of technologies to make music(or to give a sizeable amount of creative input to make music) slowly loses its artistic value FROM THE PERSON(HUMAN).
  
  This trend (not our "Trend") will slowly make all Music directors to mere supervisors -- asking the instrument to create musical phrases; cutting, pasting, cajoling(is it apt word?) it, would be the effort from the MD, hence MD would lose the creator status.
  
  Yes! this is very subtle situation. One can question this point against the sound engineering, recording stuff and also with copying the tunes/rhythms/beats etc like below:
  
  hey! Kupps you say that Music making should be MD's brainchild then why to use sound engineering, recording etc etc aspects of technology? Doesn't it amount to losing MD's creativity? The answer is NO. In these situation the technology is used to give the output in a "BETTER" way. The technology is not used to give the entire/partial "OUTPUT" itself.
  
  OK Kupps, if, in the name of not using the technology for "music making" and if i use others tunes/rhythms/beats etc will I be a creator? The answer is, IT DEPENDS on how much, why you copy/inspire from other sources. A higher frequence of it definitely is not a sign of PERSONAL CREATIVITY.
  
  Washing clothes is generally not considered as an art (there are people who do that also in artistic way, thats different). Using technology for communication doesn't fall under art. Whereas music making; lyrics/poetry/prose writing etc fall under art in which the lesser the use of technology indicates that it is more art(of a person).
  
  Technology is needed to showcase the output of a creativity. Whereas that technology has to be avoided which impedes in personal creativity by giving its own creativity.
  
  All in IMHO.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sat Jan 5 00:46:48 EST 2002
  
  >>Whereas that technology has to be avoided which impedes in personal creativity by giving its own creativity.<<
  Since when did technology grow its own brains? Is this the 'Brave New World' we live in where technology 'Thinks' for us? Until now, i was under the firm believe that technology does what it's programmed to do. Its use (communication, safety, education) or misuse (terrorism, crime) is entirely up to the user. I don't see it "giving its own creativity".
  
  Maybe, what u mean is that it simplifies certain things which used to require more effort to do. And some may argue that using electrical grinders for cooking produces inferior results to manual grinding (yeah, whatever). But at the end of the day, whether the application is creative or otherwise, technology is merely a tool which has its uses. It does not have a head or a heart of its own. Its use is not making or proving the user to be less creative, unless the technology is capable of its own music making, lyric writing etc.
  If there r such machines, pls let me know.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Jan 5 00:49:16 EST 2002
  
  I think Ramakrishna's proposition (above) and my follow on comments are being grossly misinterpreted. I only said that valuing technology as an end in itself has always been counter-productive. Yes, we are all beneficiaries of technology (this discussion thread and my presence in it would be the greatest paradox/irony if I believed otherwise.) When people dicuss TFM specifically and point to the "technological" strides it has taken as evidence of progress (at the cost of other aspects of film singing/music,in general) then one has to stand back and think if that is really a worthy assertion. For a counterpoint please drop into the Subbudu thread for a moment and check out the arguments being put for there. A broadsided "technological" agenda hence becomes suspect, especially when you can't come up with other supportive factors, such as: Has the singing reached new levels of artistic excellence? Are the compositions competing with each other for longevity? Do the lyrics haunt you long after the song has passed into another era (which is like 4 weeks these days)? Are you inspired by the richness of the tamil language and the many ways it can evoke the senses through a melody? Then one is ready to ask if technology has been used to enhance all these qualities - and marvel at how heightened the experience is (if that is indeed the case.) We are talking the Lily here. First. We can gild the Lily if we choose - but first we must have a breathtaking Lily.
  
  In other words (to paraphrase and crunch Ramakrishna's qualms) this is the original frustration: The argument is not proposing Tamil Purity. It is only asking why we (as listeners, collectively) have been persuaded to overlook and abide by the erosion of certain musical/cultural standards? It is not antagonism. It is a concern for something we (whichever language/ethnicity may belong to) ought to care about.
  It is also a pertinent question to ask, if one is expected to buy the music and cherish the product.
  And I hope discussants in this thread will address that spirit of regard for the language and show the poser and the question the respect it deserves.
  
  

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