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Malaysian Deepavali Show - RAJANNA RAJA THAAN - From Annakkili to Azhagi

Topic started by Manisekaran (@ 202.156.2.8) on Sun Nov 7 05:23:27 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Last year I did a show on Ilayaraja for Deepavali. IT was so great a hit that the ASTRO Private TV Station is repeating on 9 NOvember at 4.00 pm Malaysian time. This is called RAJANNA RAJATHAAN- covering 25 years of Raja's music contribution. From Annakkili to Azhagi. A great hit. If you can, pls do catch it. You can post your comments on the show here, and I'll respond to them.
Thanks.

Archive of the older songs: http://forumhub.lunarpages.com/hub/f13.html .

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ 61.6.39.139) on: Fri Nov 26 19:47:16 EST 2004
  
  
  
  7. EN KANMANI EN KATHALI
  Ilayaraja had all along wanted to introduce western techniques in his music. The first of these according to his own statement, was the counterpoint technique. During his visit to Singapore in the later 1970s, Raja purchased electronic computers for enhancing his music. It was with this technique that he was able to excel in the usage of counterpoint technique. Counterpoint is not new to Tamil cine music. It has been used for several decades. The only difference is that Ilayaraja brought it out its full form. He introduced it in Chittukkuruvi, and the song is “En Kanmani En Kathali”
  
  It took Ilayaraja a long time to explain to Vaali. Vaali could not grasp in the beginning. Now let me see how I could explain.
  
  Counterpoint is a 14th century western technique, often employed to add listening pleasure. It has all along been used in Tamil film songs as well, but not in Carnatic and Kachery Songs.
  
  In counterpoint, you “counter” one music with another. Simply put, it is one tune on top of another. In other words, when you mix more than one melody together, it becomes what is called counterpoint. That is to say a song is divided into two parts. In one song you have one tune with one lyric, and in the other song there is another tune with another lyric. When sang separately they appear like different songs. When combined they give another meaning.
  
  Counterpoint may take, basically two forms:
  
  1. One sings in one tune and the other sings in another tune
  2. One sings in one tune and the other hums in another tune
  
  
  In many cinema songs, while one sings a song, the other partner sings the same lyrics in another tune. All MDs have employed this.
  
  MSV and TKR brought it out clearer in the song Anru Kandathum Athey Nila from the film PERIYA IDATHU PENN.
  
  While P Suseela sings in the stanza
  Kathal Romeo Kanda Nilaa
  Kanni Juliet Chenra Nilaa, TMS sings the same lyrics, but in a softer melody and modified tune.
  
  Again, when TMS sings:
  Pavai Laila Paartha Nila
  Palaivanathin VannaNila, P .Suseela sings the same lyrics in a softer and different tune.
  
  That was a novelty then.
  
  
  In other cases while one sings, the other hums in the background. There are far too many of this. I am sure all of you know this.
  
  Another close approach could be seen in the song Madhana Maaligayil in RAJPART RANGADURAI.
  
  
  However, it was Ilayaraja who expressed the most and the best in the Counterpoint technique. There are two songs to his credit.
  
  CONTINUES...
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ 61.6.39.139) on: Fri Nov 26 19:48:01 EST 2004
  
  The pioneer song is of course
  
  En kanmani En Kathaili in SriVishnu Priya Creations CHITTUKKURUVI (1978)
  Click here to listen
  
  To make the movie fans understand the technique even better, we see the hero and the heroine singing in the bus. Counterpoint is provided by the ghost shadows of the hero and the heroine.
  
  
  SP B: En kanmani un kaadhali ila maangani
  unaip paarththadum sirikkinradhaen
  sirikkinradhaen
  naan sonna joakkaik kaettu naanamoa nee nagaichuvai Mannanillaiyo
  
  (Dialogue: NALLA SONNEL PONGO)
  
  
  PS: en mannavan Un kaadhalan
  Enai Paarthathum
  oraayiram kadhai solgiraan kadhaisolgiraan
  kadhai solgiraan
  ammammaa innum kaetkath thonrumo nee rasikkinra Kanni Illaiyo
  
  
  SPBala : en kanmani
  
  SP Bala: Iru Maangal Paesumboadhu Mozhiyaedhammaa
  Pirar kaadhil kaetpadharkum vazhiyaedhammaa
  
  PS: Oru joadi saerndhu sellum payanangalil
  uravanri Veru Illai Gavanangalil
  
  SPB: Ilamamayil
  PS: Arugamayil
  SPB: Vanthadum Velai Inbam Kodi Enru Anubavam Sonnathillaiyo
  
  (Dialogue: INTHAMMA KARUVAATTU KOODAI MUNNADI PO!)
  
  PS: en mannavan Un kaadhalan
  Enai Paarthathum
  oraayiram kadhai solgiraan kadhaisolgiraan
  kadhai solgiraan
  ammammaa innum kaetkath thonrumo nee rasikkinra Kanni Illaiyo
  
  SP Bala: en Kanmani
  (Dialogue: THENAMPETTAI SUPREMARKET, IRANGU!)
  
  SPB: Medhuvaaga unnaik konjam thodavaendumae
  Thirumaeni engum viralgal padavaendumae
  PS: Adharkaana naeram innum varavaendumae
  adaiyaalach chinnam onru tharavaendumae
  SPB:Iru thoalilum manamaalaigal
  PS: kondaadum kalam Enru koodumenru thavikkinra thavippennavoa
  
  
  SP BALA. En kanmani un kaadhali ila maangani
  unaip paarththadum sirikkinradhaen
  sirikkinradhaen
  naan sonna joakkaik kaettu naanamoa nee nagaichuvai Mannanillaiyo
  
  
  
  PS: en mannavan Un kaadhalan
  Enai Paarthathum
  oraayiram kadhai solgiraan kadhaisolgiraan
  kadhai solgiraan
  ammammaa innum kaetkath thonrumo nee rasikkinra Kanni Illaiyo
  
  SP Bala; En kanmani
  
  
  
  In another song in PAGAL NILAVU- Poomaalaiye Thol Seravaa, Raja has gone a scale higher to improvise the counterpoint technique. Here two singers blend in two different tunes and two different lyrics and occasionally coming together.
  
  Click here to listen
  
  poomaalaiyae thoal saeravaa (2) - aengum iru
  ilaiya manadhu (ilaiya manadhu)
  inaiyum pozhudhu (inaiyum pozhudhu)
  ilaiya manadhu (dheemthana dheemthana)
  inaiyum pozhudhu (dheemthana dheemthana)
  poojai maniyoasai poovai manadhaasai
  pudhiyadhoar ulagilae parandhadhae
  
  (poomaalaiyae)
  
  naan unai ninaikkaadha naalillaiyae
  thaeninaith theendaadha poovillaiyae (thananaa)
  naan unai ninaikkaadha naalillaiyae (ennai unakkenru koduththaen)
  thaeninaith theendaadha poovillaiyae (enrum ilangaadhal mayilnaan)
  thaenthuli poovaayil poovizhi maansaayal
  thaenthuli poovaayil (thananaa) poovizhi maansaayal (thananaa)
  kanni ezhudhum vannam muzhudhum vandhu thazhuvum jenmam muzhudhum
  kanni ezhudhum vannam muzhudhum vandhu thazhuvum jenmam muzhudhum
  naalum theriyaamal kaalam puriyaamal kalaiyelaam pazhaguvoam anudhinam
  
  (poomaalaiyae)
  
  koadaiyil vaadaadha koavilpuraa
  kaamanaik kaanaamal kaanum kanaa (thananaa)
  koadaiyil vaadaadhaa koavilpuraa (naanum thoongaadhu aenginaen)
  kaamanaik kaanaamal kaanum kanaa (naalum unaiththaedum enmanam)
  vizhigalum moodaadhu vidindhidak koodaadhu
  vizhigalum moodaadhu (thananaa) vidindhidak koodaadhu (thananaa)
  kanni idhayam inru udhayam enru theriyum jenmam puriyum
  kanni idhayam inru udhayam enru theriyum jenmam puriyum
  kaatru sudhi neetta kaalam jadhi kootta karumbugal edhirvarum anuguvoam
  
  
  (poomaalaiyae)
  
  
  It is only by listening to these songs that one could get a glimpse of what counterpoint is all about.
  
  Again it was in 1980 that raja was able to fuse counterpoint and many of the wweestern orchestration into carnatic music. The film that stole the show was AARILIRUNTHU ARUBATHU VARAI. The song is Kanmaniye Kaathal Enbathu. It is said that Raja was the first to have done this experiment in Indian movies. He uses of Nadaswaram, thavil, flute, electric guitar and other western instruments along with echo effect, and counterpoint humming. I consider this song a novelty by itself.
  
  Click here to listen
  
  Now, let us all discuss. Can we have more experts on counterpoint throwing more light?
  
  
  
• From: Jeera (@ 4.14.118.203) on: Fri Nov 26 20:55:23 EST 2004
  
  Mani sir and others
  
  Somebody asked for what is the first song that raja implemented western type interludes. Can we safely say that to be 'Senthoora Poovae'?
  
  
• From: Genesis (@ 64.136.27.226) on: Fri Nov 26 21:28:32 EST 2004
  
  Mani Sir, (Or some one esle)
  
  If you have time - can you please explain how "Counterpoint" technic is used in "En Kanmani" song.
  
  Sorry, I am having difficulty in understanding the concept.
  
  Thank you.
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ 61.6.39.139) on: Fri Nov 26 21:53:09 EST 2004
  
  Jeera,
  I have no information on that. I am sure someone will help all of us out.
  
  Gensesis,
  Counterpoint is one melody on top of another. Raja took a long time to make Vali understand. There is only one way you can understand. Kindly listen to the song En kanmani and you will definitely come across one melody on top pf another. That is the most glaring part in that song and there is no way anyone could miss it.
  
  TFM TEAM,
  Could you provide the song please?
  Mani
  
  
  
  
  
• From: RR (@ 218.186.186.20) on: Fri Nov 26 23:36:53 EST 2004
  
  The audios are up!
  
  
• From: RR (@ 218.186.186.20) on: Sat Nov 27 00:14:19 EST 2004
  
  One of my favorite counterpoints is in the song 'ninaivo oru paravai'. In the pallavi of this song, the counterpoint takes the 'one singer sings and the other hums' form. It's so brilliantly done that I feel like teleported somewhere everytime I listen to this piece :)
  
  Genesis: you may want to listen to this and see how seamlessly two different melodies blend to give a new experience. Here's it is, just for you
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/cgi-bin/song.pl?id=mani-7.4
  
  
• From: S.Senthil Kumar (@ 203.101.39.75) on: Sat Nov 27 00:30:59 EST 2004
  
  I think " en kanmani " song is just different from others. Its not just a counterpart but trying to be a counterpart!. Its above that. If you listen to it no where the singers singing in couter as like in the case of the songs like "poo malaiye" or even did a humming like "ninaivo oru paravai". And you can see here in this " en kanamani " song its not the other singer to try that couter singing of the first singer but the same first singer!! SPB starts "en kanmaiiiii..." its going... and suddenly an another SPB (!) starts " enai kadhali...." now before finishing the first one take it " ila mangani".... its nothing but heaven! may be its a well usuage of echo i think by the former echo owner!
  
  
• From: t (@ 24.163.67.22) on: Sat Nov 27 03:05:08 EST 2004
  
  i am not taking credit away from the song here, but i too feel that the technique used in "en kanmani" is not really a counterpoint...i don't think there are two overlapping melodies..okay there is an overlap between the "Neeeeee" of "En KanamaNeeeeee" and "En Kadhaleee"...but the "Neeeee" is just one note...i don't think we can call it a melody, can we???
  
  just creating the effect of 2 SPBs & 2 Suseelas singing at the same time was probably a novelty, given the recording techniques in 1977...
  
  the vocal melodies in Poo Maalaiyee seem to overlap a little more...but are there instances where the overlap is more significant and the melodies are more elaborate too - and both the melodies should have lyrics...the ninaivo oru paravai type counterpoints should be more common since one of the two melodies does not have any lyric associated with it...
  
  also i don't know if anybody has noticed that the voices in "Raaja Raajathi Raajan Intha Raaja" all sing slightly different melodies in some parts of the song...or am i just hallucinating :-))...
  
  
  

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