Topic started by NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on Mon Dec 8 01:34:34 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Mon Dec 8 01:36:49 EST 1997
Gone are the days when playback singers were chosen based on their ability to sing like theactors on the screen. I believe TM Soundararajan was one of the best singers for this.
When you listen to Yengey nimmathi, Sivaji appears in your mind.
When you sing Naan paarthathillei aval oruthiyeithaan, MGR immediately comes to mind.
There are thousands of other examples. The beauty of it, is that these songs cannot be interchanged. Yengey nimmathi couldn't have been sung by MGR and Naan paarthathillei aval oruthiyeithaan wouln't be appropriate for Sivaji. Maybe the lyrics played a part. But you cannot discount the TMS factor. There have been others like AMR for Gemini, etc, but none can surpass TMS.
Nowadays, any kuppan-suppan (Ravi - you know why!:-)) can sing the songs. The reason being, the singer must suit the song! I though it was the height of lunacy when KJJ sang for Sivaji :-))
Currently, M'sia Vasu can sing quite appropriately for a few actors such as Sivaji, Kamal and Rajani. SP Bala's voice may seem universal, but in actual fact is not. For instance Kamal's voice is not as sweet as SP Bala's. You would realise this when listening to songs sung by both SP Bala and Kamal.
I would like everyone's views on this. You may go as far back as your memories reach you, like PUC and MKT, without forgetting new discoveries such as Hariharan and Udit Narayan.
- From: CS (@ palo6.pacific.net.sg)
on: Mon Dec 8 02:22:24 EST 1997
NOV, the socalled 'matching' voice appears to be suitable only for male singers / actors and particularly for TMS. When TMS sings he imagines himself as the actor for the movie and brings the tonal quality of the actor for whom he sings.
In one of the kumudam issues, he did mention that,
when he sings for Sivaji, he sings from his abdomin, for MGR, from his throat, for Jai Shankar from his lungs etc.
So it looks to us as if the actor himself sings. This is the best part of TMS and hence he is remembered for life. But it does not appear to be true for ALR, PBS, AMR and others. SPB did sing for MGR and Sivaji. But those songs (aayiram nilavae vaa, pottu vaitha mugamo) does not tell for whom he had sung. Now with the digital wonders, any kuppan-suppan can sing for any actors.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg)
on: Mon Dec 8 02:40:43 EST 1997
NOV:
Ennanga peNgaL voice suitability patri oNNum neenga
sollavE illaiyE? I think P Susheela was very good
at changing her voice to suit the actress for whom
she was singing. You will notice and appreciate this
fact only if you carefully listen, at the same time,
a number of songs that she has sung over the years.
Some examples which illustrate this nicely are:
1. paarththa njaabagam illaiyO (Sowcar Janaki)
2. chittukkuruvi muththam kodukka (Saroja Devi)
(note: both are in the same movie)
3. pachchai maram ondru
(two versions in the movie, Ramu, once for a
child, and then for KR Vijaya later)
4. In Ramu, the lines,
niththiraiyil vandhu nenjil idam koNda ..
just before nilavE ennidam nerungaathE
sounds exactly like KR Vijaya
5. ninaikka therindha manamE and
paalirukkum pazhamirukkum (Dhevika)
6. chevvaanaththil oru natchaththiram (Bharathy)
7. kuzhandhaiyum dheivamum (Baby Padmini)
8. thaNNilavu thEniraikka (Savithri)
9. aththaan ennaththaan for Savithri and
Dhevika in the same song
10. naan pEsa ninaippadhellaam (Saroja Devi)
11. kaalamidhu kaalamidhu (Padmini)
12. sirippil uNdaagum raagaththilE and
sandhanam kungumam koNda thaamarai poo
(J)
13. unakku mattum unakku mattum ragasiyam solvEn (EV Saroja)
14. anbu nadamaadum kalai koodamE (Manjula)
... and many more. This versatility of P Susheela
of adapting her voice to suit actresses cannot be
seen in other female singers, even S Janaki.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg)
on: Mon Dec 8 02:53:27 EST 1997
NOV & CS:
You have only mentioned the suitability of TMS's
voice for MGR & Sivaji Ganesan. TMS also was
also extremely good at singing for Jaishankar;
all those songs by Vedhaa in the "James Bond"
movies by Modern Theatres sung by TMS are excellent
examples.
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Mon Dec 8 04:18:01 EST 1997
SJ for Radhika is another good example for females. The way SJ sings 'neththili mInai koLambaakki' in pUvarasampU' matches Radhika's pronounciation to the core.
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Mon Dec 8 09:07:33 EST 1997
Thalaiva NOV:
How about Sukvinder Singh's voice for SPB in Rakshagan :)))))))))))))) @#$@!#!@#$^%$ (SPB should be Lucky Lucky to get a playback for him:)
- From: Pagalavan (@ waterboy.cisco.com)
on: Mon Dec 8 10:33:44 EST 1997
IR for Nasser is a perfect match especially in arithaaraththap pOOsikkoLLa aasai of Avathaaram. IR's voice follows Nasser's monologue and it matches and blends so well.
- From: shankar (@ webgate1.mot.com)
on: Tue Dec 9 07:44:30 EST 1997
AM's voice perfectly matches for paarthiban (NOVanna adikka varAdheenga :-))
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Tue Dec 9 15:47:20 EST 1997
Some Porutthams that didnt take off:
Trichy Loganathan was a good fit for SV Rangarao in "Kalyana Samayal Sadham" in Maya Bazar. His voice also suited SV Subbaiah in Kappalottiya Thamizhan.
AL Ragavans voice was a good fit for Gemini. Think of "Andru Oomaip Pennallo". His voice also suited ANR - "Kadhal Yaathiraikku".
Gemini Ganesan must be really unique: PBS, AMRaja and AL Ragavans voices suited him very well. TMS was not a bad fit either.
CS Jayaraman and Seerkazhis voices dont suit anybody! No actor had that "Ganeer" tone of Seerkazhi.
I am not very good at distinguishing between female voices. But MS Rajeswaris voice was amazingly childlike. Nobody else could hv sung "Poo Poova Parandhu Pogum Pattup Poochi Akka" that well.
In hindsight, I think MLVs voice would hv been a perfect fit for Srividya. I dont think this ever happened, though.
- From: Amar (@ 146.174.250.100)
on: Tue Dec 9 16:44:36 EST 1997
G's, I heard the sogns from "Agnisaatchi" again today and remembered this topic, because the voice of P.Susheela singing for Saritha suited very well. In couple of songs, Saritha herself sang a few lines in one song ans the whole thing in the other and sounded very close to P.Susheela's voice in the other songs of the movie. I don't know if PS changed her voice( which she is very capable of ) to suit Saritha.
I remember reading about K.R.Vijaya & Sujatha requesting for PS to sing for them in their respective movies( I thing in the 70's ).
Also, how can one forget how PS sang in a "Keechu" kural for our "Kannadathu Painkili" Saroja Devi? Songs like "Love Birds, Love Birs, Takka Dimmi Tha"(from Anbey Vaa), "Veithaitaadu Vilaiyaadu, Viruppampoala Uravaadu, Veeramaana Nadaiyai Poadu"(from Arasakkattalai), "Unnaithaaney, Hey, Unnaithaaney"(from Parakkum Paavai), "Yaarukku Maappillai Yaaro"(from Paarthaal Pasi Theerum), etc. The same PS, differed quite a bit when she sang for Savithiri, Devika, et al. I love the voice of PS and can never get over her magic spell!!!
RV was right in saying there was nobody to quite match the "Ganeer" voice of Sirgazhi but the song "Uzhaippathilaa Uzhaippai Peruvathila Inbham" from Nadodi Mannan sounded very good for MGR, at least in the movie. Also, I thought, Sirgazhi's voice in the song, "Kannaana Kannanukku Avasarama" from Alayamani sounded very appropriate for SSR.
More Later!
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Tue Dec 9 17:07:44 EST 1997
NOV( and all ), I just remembered seeing some TV program from India(my folks recorded and sent it) but I don't recall the name of the program.
In that, they show 2 original songs and then play the first song for the second song-sequence and amazingly, the second situation looked great with the song of the first situation
For an example, they showed "Ninaithein Vanthaai Nooru Vayasu" from Kaavalkaaran( MGR & Jayalalitha ) and "Aahaa Mella Nada Mella Nada" from Puthiya Paravai( Sivaji & Saroja Devi) and then replayed the situation with Sivaji & Saroja Devi of "Aaha Meela Nada Mella Nada" for the song "Ninaithein Vanthaai Nooru Vayasu" and amazingly, the gestures, looks, dance steps etc. by Sivaji & Saroja Devi looked very suited(almost) for that song. Similarily they showed a bunch of sets of songs. Almost all of them looked great in the replay portion. Of course, credit goes to the team that searched and selected such sets of songs!!!
But the point is that it kind of dented my beliefs that the voice of TMS in the songs sung for MGR & Sivaji respectively sounded distinct and appropriate for the respective actors. I am not singling out TMS, the same holds good for other singers and other actors/actresses too.
Is it the preception( Maayai ) that we all get when we hear the songs that make us believe TMS sounding different for different actors? Perception based on such factors like the lyrics, the themes of the songs, the names of the movies, earlier knowledge about who acts in what movies, etc. or is it really different? I tend to lean towards the latter but can't be so sure????
"Yaarai Engey Vaippathu Enru Yaarukkum Theriyalai, Ingu Andankaakkaikkum Kuyilgalukkum Beitham Theriyalai, Beitham Theriyalai!"
Just adding a different flavor to the topic!!!
- From: Ramki (@ cs517.cs.wmich.edu)
on: Tue Dec 9 18:02:32 EST 1997
Im going to digress here so beware:))
Of all the Indian playback singers i feel Kishore kumar is the best in changing his voice to suit the actors esp for Sanjeev kumar,Amithabh,Rajesh khanna and Dev Anand. Just by listening to the song u can easily guess who the actor will be.I can quote a lot of examples but this being a TFM i am not prepared to drag HFM in here:))For Those who are intersted to have a discussion on this well we will do it privately:))
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Tue Dec 9 21:25:17 EST 1997
Ramki
I have heard many people say that Kishore has the best voice modulation. You must be right in saying so.
Pagalavan
IR's voice also suited Janakaraj in 'eduththu nAn vidavA' - puthup puthu arththangkaL
Bhaskar
Are you serious? Did that Sukhwinder or some shouter sing for SPB? What is the situation in which the song appears? Is there any logic behind this atrocious choice?
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Tue Dec 9 22:06:19 EST 1997
Amar:
I am glad to see one more person agreeing on my view
regarding P Susheela's voice adaptability.
Regarding TMS, I have always felt that his special
voice for Jaishankar was the best example of his
adaptability. Can you recall songs such as
naan malarOdu thaniyaaga Eningu vandhEn?
For Saambaar, AMR used to be the accepted ghost-voice
until the song kaalangaLil avaL vasantham
came and PBS became the ghost-voice from then on.
I think Vasantha's voice suited J extremely well.
Even LR Eswari was pretty suitable for J. Of course,
LR Eswari was most suitable for CID Sakunthala!
Any comments on the suitability of CS Jeyaraman's
voice for Sivaji Ganesan?
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Tue Dec 9 23:12:25 EST 1997
Aravind:
Serious:
This song has SPB act and sing like a Charlie Chaplin, hence Sukhwinder's voice is chosen for SPB. In between Nagarjuna will sing a few lines for which the playback has been sung by SPB.
As you said, whatever situation and reason, ARR could have used a better sounding person.
For Ex. Malaysia Vasudevan has sung the Mamavukku kuduma Kuduma song beautifully in Punnagai Mannan in which Kamal sings as a Charlie Chaplin.
- From: Sunil (@ relay.cxo-x.dec.com)
on: Wed Dec 10 18:55:36 EST 1997
I somehow felt SJ was excellent for Ambika and Radha.
- From: Ramaswamy Gireesan (@ m42.m59.big.ac.at)
on: Wed Dec 10 19:28:43 EST 1997
As far as TMS singing for MGR and sivaji is concerned, no doubt he did a good job. But this voice gets so entrenched in the minds of the audience, that when I saw a film starring TMS (some devotional film) I couldnt help wondering why Sivaji had sung playback for TMS :-)
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Wed Dec 10 19:46:49 EST 1997
I think we should exclude shivAji from this discussion. If TMS
could adapt his voice to an actor, shivAji could change his facial
musculations (I can't find a better word) to suit any voice. Hence CSJ,
KJJ anything goes with him.
I was listening to some song in veNNira Adai (ubayam Navrang) sung
by PSushIlA for JJ. The voice was so much like JJ's that I couldn't
believe it was sushIlA's.
- From: pg (@ client-116-121.bellatlantic.net)
on: Wed Dec 10 21:10:22 EST 1997
How about S.N.Surendar for Mohan ? I know he used to dub for Mohan. I think he has also sung a few songs for Mohan. A perfect match.
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Wed Dec 10 21:40:46 EST 1997
Bhaskar
I too saw the song on SunTV yestrday. Felt bad for SPB. Is he in some dire need for money? I don't understand. He should not have allowed himself to be insulted to this extent. This is the second insult to him this year. The first was the National Award for 'thangkath thAmarai'.
PG
If SPB dubs for vadivElu (not NOV) and also sings for him, then it will be a perfect match. No big deal :-))))
- From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com)
on: Thu Dec 11 03:58:43 EST 1997
Arularasan:
We are talking about the voice of the playback singer matching the voice of the actor. I dont see how the facial expressions of Sivaji come into the picture here. You can, theoretically extend this and say that PS suits Sivaji too!
And, no, CSJ's voice does not suit Sivaji - or any other actor - IMHO.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Mon Dec 15 05:06:24 EST 1997
Do you guys remember the dubbed Kamalahassan/Rathika movie (my memory fails me) directed by K. Viswanath? For some reason or other, Kamal's voice was not used for the Tamil version. And as commonly thought, SPBala seemed the best choice. The result was atrocious, to say the least. And voila! It dawned upon us that SPBala's voice does not match Kamal's voice! I still think that M'sia Vasu's voice suits him best.
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219)
on: Mon Dec 15 19:18:24 EST 1997
i perfectly agree with nov.the movie is swathi muthyam.i don't know why but when SPB sings,his voice seems to be good for kamal,but not when he talks.strange is'nt it?
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Tue Dec 16 01:27:28 EST 1997
I heard two reasons for Kamal not dubbing in the Tamil version. One was that he had a fight with KV. Second was he was on a tour to Swiss and KV wanted to release it immediately b'cos of deepaavali or something.
Yes. SPB's voice sounded out of place. But, NOV, don't you think MV would have been worse.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Tue Dec 16 02:02:04 EST 1997
Aravind - I think MV (as a singer) would be the better choice, given the fact that he alters his voice for the situation/actor. Remember his Yengey naan kaabein kathai naayagi for Sivaji? Excellent, I would say.
PS: I finally remembered the title of the movie: Sippikkul Muthu :-))))
- From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com)
on: Tue Dec 16 08:48:49 EST 1997
I think CS Jayaraman's voice would be a perfect match for TS Balaiyah.
- From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com)
on: Tue Dec 16 17:26:21 EST 1997
Vanakkamunga..
Yar kural Yarukku match aagumunnu therinchikkarathe vida yar kural yarukku match aagama oru nalla padalai murder panninanga
enru discuss panrathu interestinga irukkumena
ninaikkirenunga..
Ippa matchingunnu partha..
Sivaji - TMS
MGR - TMS
Jai S - TMS
Sampar Gemini - PBS,AMR
Kamal - SPB
Rajini - SPB,Mano,MV
Sivakumar - KJY (or KJJ!!)
SarojaDevi - P.S
Sridevi,Ambika,Radha - S.J
Suhasini - Chithra
ipdi niraya sollalamunga...
Ippo sila wrong selection for right songs parkkalamungala..
Vaichukkava Unne mattum nenjukkulle - Nallavanukku Nallavan - Rajinikku KJYesudas..
Rajini Salangai olyil herova nadicha maathiri irunthathunga enakku..Aana athe padathile unnai thaane..thanjam enru..nnu oru pattu asathittar KJY.
Oru matching parppom..
Chinnanchiru vayathil enakkor chithiram - Meendum Kokila - Sridevikku SJ asathittanga..
Enunga Ore padathile oru nadikarukku 3 per 3 pattu paadirukkanga..enna padam enna pattunnu sollunga paarkkalaam???. Nanringo..
- From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com)
on: Tue Dec 16 17:29:40 EST 1997
Vanakkamunga..
Yar kural Yarukku match aagumunnu therinchikkarathe vida yar kural yarukku match aagama oru nalla padalai murder panninanga
enru discuss panrathu interestinga irukkumena
ninaikkirenunga..
Ippa matchingunnu partha..
Sivaji - TMS
MGR - TMS
Jai S - TMS
Sampar Gemini - PBS,AMR
Kamal - SPB
Rajini - SPB,Mano,MV
Sivakumar - KJY (or KJJ!!)
SarojaDevi - P.S
Sridevi,Ambika,Radha - S.J
Suhasini - Chithra
ipdi niraya sollalamunga...
Ippo sila wrong selection for right songs parkkalamungala..
Vaichukkava Unne mattum nenjukkulle - Nallavanukku Nallavan - Rajinikku KJYesudas..
Rajini Salangai olyil herova nadicha maathiri irunthathunga enakku..Aana athe padathile unnai thaane..thanjam enru..nnu oru pattu asathittar KJY.
Oru matching parppom..
Chinnanchiru vayathil enakkor chithiram - Meendum Kokila - Sridevikku SJ asathittanga..
Enunga Ore padathile oru nadikarukku 3 per 3 pattu paadirukkanga..enna padam enna pattunnu sollunga paarkkalaam???. Nanringo..
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Tue Dec 16 20:09:59 EST 1997
Mr Arimugam @ Naarathar (Ungal nija peyarthaan yenna? Ippadi yenna, yenna, yenna, yenna, yenna, yenna, yendru KBS style-le keittathaan solluveenga poalum!)
Orey padathile oru nadigarukku 3 peir 3 paattu paaduvathu ippo vantha phenomenon illeh; Ulagam sutrum Vaaliban-le:
Nilavum oru pennaagi - TMS
Thanga thoaniyiley - KJJ
Avaloru navarasa naadagam - SPB
Ithu eppadi irukku? :-))
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Tue Dec 16 22:17:43 EST 1997
Arimugam
sinnanchiru vayathil (meendum gOkilaa) paadiyathu SPShailaja.
NOV
Yes. MV has modified his voice beautifully on many occasions. His 'Ananthath thenkARRu' (maNippUr mAmiyAr) is unforgettable. Even now, he is the best choice to sing for Sivaji, apart from TMS of course. Did you listen to 'sinna sinna kAthal' from Once More. MV did a decent job, though the song is irritating to hear now because of repeated hearing thro Sun.
- From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com)
on: Wed Dec 17 09:16:35 EST 1997
Chinnan chiru kuzhappathai theertha Nanbar
Aravindirku Nanri..Nalla velai srideviye paadinathu ena ninaikkamal vittene..nanringa.
Nanbar NOV avarkale..Arimugam and Narathar oruvare..naan naratharaaka thuvakkiya kaariyam mudiyattum..piraku therivikkiren en peyarai...En nija peyarai vaithu matravarkal ennai ..thittuvathilo..udhaippathilo..mithippathilo.
.enakku udan paadu illai!!!!. Innoru mukkiyamana vishayam antha 2 discussionukkum oru thodarpu ullathu..!!. Naan ketka ninaithathu Padhmashri Sivaji Ganesan avarkalukku 3 per ore padathil paadi ullanar..yaar nanraaka paadinaar yaar kolai pannangannu discuss pannalaame??.
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Dec 17 14:12:55 EST 1997
Thalaiva NOV:
MGR-ukku ellorudaya playback voice-um match aavum solluvanga indhu oru eduthukaattaa ?
Alladhu MGR fans appadi solluvangalannu puriyala :)
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Dec 17 14:23:06 EST 1997
Mr Arimugam @ Naarathar :
Udit Narayan yarukku paadinalum andha actorukku voice totally mismatch aagum voice dhaan, yen avarai avaalavu piriyamaga ARR varavazhaikiraar endru puriyavillai :))
- From: arvind (@ 208.3.135.253)
on: Wed Dec 17 16:21:32 EST 1997
arimugam i think the movie is thirisoolam
tms, yesudas and spb has sung for sivaji in that movie
- From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com)
on: Wed Dec 17 17:17:57 EST 1997
Ennanga Bhaskar Matching voice titilukku keezhe Mismatch pathi vivatham kilappi vittuttomennu varuthama irukku!! irunthaalum parattarathavide kurai solrathile irukka arumai aaha thamizhanukke perumaiyaana vishayam..
If a movie has 2 or 3 diff. characters of a same actor or actress then diff. singer's voice is may be needed. But how about for a single role if different singers sing songs for them?. Udharanama "Thenpaandi cheemaiyile..therodum veedhiyile.." -Nayagan.
Kamal voice or Raja voice yaarodathu onri perfect or almost perfect matcha varrathu sollunga parppom.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Thu Dec 18 03:49:07 EST 1997
Ithu yenna vambaa poachu? Kamal-in voice Kamalukku poruththam illameh, matravar voice-aa porunthoom?
Bhaskar - yennai keittaal TMS-ei thavira MGR-kku veir yentha voice-um poruththam illai! Ungalukku yeppedi? Looking back, I feel ARR missed a golden opportunity to have TMS sing for him in Iruvar....
- From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com)
on: Thu Dec 18 09:13:11 EST 1997
Mr. NOV Kamal voice kamalukku porunthalaanga aana velu naaikkarukku porunthanum illaya, Pesavathu veru paaduvathu verunga.. SPB paadina kamal maathiri paaduvaar pesinaal SPB maathrithaan pesuvarnnu oru discussionle oru nanbar solli irunthatha gnabakam. Oru examplekkaaka antha paadalai sonnen. You can try for diff. songs.
- From: PADDAIYAPPA (@ klj-229-189.tm.net.my)
on: Wed Jun 23 02:55:08 EDT 1999
MY DEAR TAMIL FRIENDS. PLEASE MASTER YOUR ENGLISH AND THEN START COMMENTING ON OTHER AND SINGERS. O.K.!! SOME OF THE ENGLISH WRITEN HERE MAKES ME TO FORGET MY ENGLISH.
ENNA! MAN ROMBA NALLA ELLUTHE THERIELLA
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