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IR's music with ARR's recording - an indomitable combination ?

Topic started by Viswa (@ webgate6.mot.com) on Fri Apr 10 04:01:00 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Reading the discussions on the thread Review of JEANS, the album (those last few points of view involving Anand, Nithin, Sreeni, etc.) has led me to think...
Well, if ARR is damn good at the recording and IR is brilliant with the musical finesse, how would an album that has music composed by IR and recording by ARR sound like ?
Wishful thinking ? Fantasizing ? Maybe, but is'nt that what life is (almost) all about ? ;) Comments, folks....

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Responses:

• From: yogananda (@ 194.78.104.71) on: Fri Apr 10 06:49:57 EDT 1998
  
  i am really waiting for such a combination...
  It will be one of the dream come true......
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Fri Apr 10 09:05:53 EDT 1998
  
  This was mentioned in India-Today (Tamil edition) which is anti-IR and pro-ARR.
  
  IMO, I prefer IR's recording to ARR's recording. In most IR's recordings you can listen to most of the instruments separately, there is more 'air' around each of them and the instruments and voices are clearly dileanated. In ARR's music there is too much of over-dubbing, artificial highs and lows and while it sounds good on low-end boom-boxes it is jarring on real good systems using CDs. Likewise with KR too.
  
  IR's recording on NMH, Guru, Kaliyoonjal etc is very good.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Fri Apr 10 09:06:53 EDT 1998
  
  Also veera thAlAttu, kizhakkum mErkum are very good.
  
  
• From: gOpAl (@ 1cust212.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Fri Apr 10 09:24:30 EDT 1998
  
  Yes, PG is right.
  
  In all his recent recordings, Raaja's music stands to benefit.
  
  I too have noticed all those "side effects" that ARRs music produces. But.....hey what are we up to here?:)
  
  
• From: gOpAl (@ 1cust212.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Fri Apr 10 09:57:56 EDT 1998
  
  Viswa
  
  pls email me, will ya? your email is bouncing.....
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Apr 10 12:37:10 EDT 1998
  
  Ayyo Ayyo! Enna ithu! So u are saying IR compose a song and leave the recording to ARR.
  
  What if ARR out of his usual habit mix it with a hindi song music - he really has a good collection of the 60's hindi music. (listen to Jeans "vaarayo .." and Teesri mansil , year 1996 , Music RD.burman )
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Sat Apr 11 01:44:42 EDT 1998
  
  I have a fear that someone else from the West is going to plunge in before anyone else can hope to do: That is re produce most of the tracks for the famous hits of IR with state-of-the-art recording technology. Most of my fears have proven true. This may take a little while, but somene else is going to get ahead of me, perhaps!
  
  I don't think IR needs to spend his time to waste on recording quality or mxing layers or building layers or whatever! He has too much to do than just waste time on the packaging!
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 53.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Apr 11 23:17:29 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  I feel this will not work out.
  
  Ar uses electronics. All his equipments have many syncs like FSK etc. This will bring a timing accuracy. He uses digital recording. He records one at a time.
  
  
  But Raja score is mostly arrangements. There is a Violin section,Viola section, Cello section , Double bass section , Brass section , Percussion ..etc...He uses pure acoustic.
  all these section plays together.
  It is hard to balance this kind of arrangement in very a short time.
  
  ARs interludes are mostly monophonic. Ar has not done big arrangements like Raja.
  His interludes mostly depends on drum/bass/a single instruments/ chorus.
  If he does he will take a year or 2 to balance his score.
  
  This will not work out.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide22.microsoft.com) on: Mon Apr 13 21:23:52 EDT 1998
  
  More often than not, there is only one "section" is Raja's arrangements.
  
  tabla "section"
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: Senthil (@ 203.120.115.1) on: Wed Apr 15 01:18:51 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Dev,
  
  I think your ear is can listen only tabla and it is not capable of recognizing violin, flute, bass guitar which Raja mixes marvellously! Please do not say it is most often only tabla. Probably you have only tabla dominating songs and listen to it most often :-)) Refer to those topics in DF which discuss Raaja's orchestration skills to a very fine granularity. I think there will be more out there to respond in a elaborate way.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Apr 17 16:01:33 EDT 1998
  
  I agree with Dev - Yes! IR uses a lot of Tabla sections - But only for songs where the prominince should be given to the Voice alone . For instance the tune and the Voice of the singer alone would suffice for certain songs .He does'nt want the music to swamp the voice like we hear these days .
  
  Padikattuma in veerathaalattu is a recent example.
  
  
  
• From: chris (@ ) on: Sat Oct 7 05:49:41 EDT 2000
  
  Well ar rehman has 12 mackie mixers in his studio.he records in one mixer and then changes.he uses a special technic known as NLP.that is the secret of his recording technic.
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.70) on: Fri Oct 13 22:25:46 EDT 2000
  
  Folks:
  
  If you want to really know the depth of IR's recording abilities, you should go nowhere but intensively listen to the songs of "Priya" that came out around 1980. It is available in a CD released by Pyramid in Singapore (CD IP-5014) with an INRECO banner on it. This is probably the best recorded IR CD that I ever listened. I think that Priya was the first Tamil movie recorded in Stereo in LP form. Can anyone confirm ? The songs are Crystal clear. Especially the song 'Akkarai Seemai Azhaginilae.." by KJY reflects exelent balance between voice and music. Looking at it objectively, I have yet to listen a Rahman's recoding comparable to that.
  
  Judging the recording quality also needs use of all instruments from low to high end in the audio spectrum. The song I refered uses chello and bass guitar for the low end, bangos and some kind on organ for the middle and violin, guitar and something else at the high end. The whole thing is a distinct musical pleasure to listen to. I am amazed that IR composed such one in 1980 !
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.236) on: Sat Oct 14 05:34:18 EDT 2000
  
  ravi.k.s.!
  
  No doubt it sounds great & crystal clear in Priya, but can you attribute that to IR alone? Could it probably be due to the sound engineers at Singapore (or London where it was recorded) who managed the technicalities? Another thing to be noticed in that album is the way in which sounds are organized in each of the tracks is not proper...(sometimes when you hear in SLBC a portion of intruments cannot be heard at all and one hears only 50% of the song; same case with `engengO sellum en eNNangaL) I would rate `Ananthakkummi' a much better, balanced recording. Again credit to the Mumbai sound engineers:-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.236) on: Sat Oct 14 05:36:35 EDT 2000
  
  & about ARR's recording, `mAtRAN thOttaththu malligaiyum maNakkum':-))
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 63.202.173.142) on: Sat Oct 14 10:43:20 EDT 2000
  
  Well..now you can say IR with Yuvan's recording..but the funny thing is - it is not recording. It is basically the digital output of sequencers with software/hardward reverb (ofcourse, vocals have to be recorded). And ofcourse, sequencers have sound samples recorded in closed miked configuration in an almost anechoic chamber. When ARR uses natural instruments he tries to do the same - close mic. The individual tracks are later mixed, with reverb/spatial effects. With IR, all recording were live mixes - i.e. real instruments playing in a studio, mixed together to get the stereo output. If you listen intently in some recordings you can hear other noises.
  Priya is good..but I like later digital recordings like anjali, thEvar magan etc. I am not sure why these days IR is not using that much real instruments. bArathy is good but still the flute, some echo and artifical sibilance et. al could have been avoided.
  
  
• From: rishi (@ 139.230.24.144) on: Fri Oct 20 16:05:48 EDT 2000
  
  IR's music with ARR's recording - an indomitable combination ?
  
  Intresting concept.. well, in the world of marketing two things are of prime concern.. the packaging (not only physical but also the intellectual placement) and the content itself... and this analogy is similar to what you are talking about – arr’s recording ie. the packaging and IR’s music ie. the content itself.. having said that, think of who’s more successful today, both at a critical and commercial level, undeniably rahman.. and if u deny this I think reading ahead would be a sheer waste of time.. coming tune to my point, which is, rahman is not successful because of his recording capabilities, but because he able to meld the best of the two worlds – packaging and content.. this is not to say, IR is not good, but rather a point of self-discovery to realize and comprehend why rahman is the sound of today... in total, like someone said, “digital but intelligent..”
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.162) on: Sun Oct 22 14:30:45 EDT 2000
  
  kiru:
  
  Good point. I always wondered how and why ARR's songs sounded as if they were recorded in almost completely dead silence in the background and noice-free so that you can sort of "see" the instruments as if they were "lonely"!. I had this feeling all along listening to some ARR's songs. Especially, each instrument seem to lack a connection or sort-of a relationship to the other playing instruments in the synchronization and rhythemic domains.. Now that it is understandable that it is the digital magic ! or perhaps one could call it as limitation. I guess, since he seems to record individual track/instrument separately he can easily make it noise free by locating each in sound proof room (unlike IR, who has to worry about interactions between instruments and people in the recording chamber) or later earsing out the unwanted stuff. Then when ARR mixes later he can simply lay it out like a WEB page ! I guess this is why the songs sound somewhat too noise free to be real have the "live" feel.
  
  Nevertheless, ARR has done outstandingly in recording "Kadalar Thinam" and "Jeans" where he almost makes you not to notice these things.
  
  I still prefer IR's style not only because it is difficult to do interms of synchronization and rhythm, but the "liveness" adds some life to the music, I seem to think. That means if IR can get excited about the players about his composition and when everyone is in sync., you can very possibly get the maximum effort from everybody in terms of tonal quality of notes, timing and maintenance of rhythm and perhaps some improvization from some passionate instrumentalist. I see these things, in a subtle way in IR's 80's songs, unmistakeably. I think IR has even kind of given-up in this style lately, and it is sad to see it happen. The best recordings of western symphonies and concertos are recorded live all the time, even to day and it is the only way to do to get the best synchronization and life into the music composition.
  
  Although ARR's style is modern and admirable, it can lead to staleness in his music and this is what I see in some songs. One of the things that prevents people from noticing these things in ARR's songs is VM's lyrics. The lyrics are sometimes so mesmerizing that I seem to fail to notice the falterings in synchronization! If lyrics in ARR's songs are down then probably the whole song may go down, because of the possible lack of the liveness that is found in IR's compositions. I would be interesting to list popular ARR songs for which VM did not write the lyrics...
  
  I still thing IR is the Master and King of recording for Tamil Film music, given the limitations he had in 80s. He does not need any help in the recording domain. It is just that he has to use "modern" style..He probaly will not do it himself or would even refuse to work with someone doing it..because for him it could be insulting..It is like asking a professor to teach high school student..
  
  The examples you indicated (Devar Maghan, Anjali) are good too. Perhaps I can never forget the first interlude in the "Inchi Iduppazhaha.." what an wonderful ecstatic piece..IR almost takes to out of this universe for several seconds in that flight of musical fancy.. I sort of revere his effort in Priya interms of musical instrumental arrangement, diversity, composition and synchronization. Once would have to listen several times to see it.. Hopefully you would have that experience..Bye.
  
  Please give me a feed back if I am misunderstood about ARR's styles. Thanks.
  
  
• From: mandai veengi sethavan (@ 157.182.40.145) on: Sun Oct 22 14:32:46 EDT 2000
  
  rishi annachi!!!
  enna anne..onnum puriyalai!!!
  
  

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