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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.65.106.130) on: Thu Feb 21 10:24:49 EST 2002
  
  Harmony and Chorus.
  
  Chorus : is usually a group of singers singing the same notes in same octave or different octaves. Something like a background chorus humming, lahs, dhas or at times with lyrics. Like in Rakamma kaiytathu last slow lines. A song itself can be in chorus, we can call it a group song :)
  
  Harmony : more than one note at the same time. Like when you play a chord we have a triad,
  When all the notes are sung together you get a harmony.
  
  so assume a tune (or a calling bell melody) goes like this in C scale
  I have done a 3 mock bars
  Lead :
  
  E F E F | C E C E | EDC EDC |
  C C C C
  
  in indian notation:
  ga ma ga ma | sa ga sa ga | garisa garisa |
  
  Harmony will be
  G A G A | E G E G | GFE GFE |
  
  in indian notation:
  PA DHA PA DHA | GA PA GA PA | PAMAGA PAMAGA |
  
  
  So when the lead part is sung, harmony is also sung by another singer over the lead part. The tune wise they are the same but notes wise they go in harmonic intervals. Note this word, intervals - I am not going to go into it now, it is beyond the scope of this topic.
  however in simple layman terms, Intervals depends on the chord you use. assuming in a C Major, my intevals are 5ths (G is the 5 note in the harmony of c major chord)), hope you get it.
  
  Harmony is easy if notes are plain and falls with in the scale as intervals are known clearly.
  But taking an Indian raga with its gamakas and limited notes in his AR and AVR, working out a harmony is a tough job in hand or rather time conusming job. Msv did this wel but mostly with instruments, Arr does this well for vocals too, however I feel he uses technology to get this done easily. Like using a "Digitechs" Vocal harmomizer.
  
  in "columbus columbus" 2nd charanam
  there is a line thalaimuraiyai alli aval adai...
  this part comes in a few glides, harmomy also glides like the melody over it..
  
  I have not seen it in IR songs. This does not mean he cannot, might be he has not had an proper situation to do this. He thinks differently.
  
  Now you can understand sams posting on opening scores of venmathi and ohh lala
  if you create a harmony for venmathi opening , you will get oh llala as harmony part
  and vice versa. :)
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 165.122.128.173) on: Thu Feb 21 12:06:26 EST 2002
  
  calling bell reminded me of cycle bell :-)
  
  In “vEgam vEgam” from Anjali, towards the end of the second interlude, while the vibrant violins play ascending and descending notes in the background, there is a ‘ting tong ting tong ting tong ting tong’ in the foreground, played twice, to end the interlude and start the 2nd charanam. I was wondering why IR had chosen that sound there. And when I watched it realized why…as children are shown to be on their ‘magic journey’ on bicycles:)
  
  just an observation…
  
  
• From: isaiosai (@ 165.122.128.173) on: Thu Feb 21 12:46:46 EST 2002
  
  MS, thanks.
  
  Paamaran,
  I don’t know the Tamil one. Hence, the telugu song:) it is not “isai mEdayil”.
  
  Srikanth,
  Thanks for the explanation on chorus and vocal harmony.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Feb 21 15:34:11 EST 2002
  
  Guys I have a request, instead of giving instances of vocal harmonies (true, this is helpful, but), I think it wud be more informative and interesting if u cud explain one particular song in detail each time, like whats going on with the notes in that song, or how a particular melody line is harmonized, is that harmony conventional or something different, things like that. Like how Srikanth was explaining about the shifts from major to minor scales in Mouna raagam or how he wud harmonize the calling bell melody. Then we cud understand a composition better.
  
  Small note on triads, In a triad, the root note is the strongest, then the fifth note is next strongest and then the third (this is some what a irony, cos its the third note which determines if a chord is a major or minor). Please check this link for some info on the intervals.
  http://www.wm.edu/CAS/music/theorybk/text/interval.htm#Measurement%20of
  
  Incidentally, in a scale, the root note and the fifth of the tonic chord are the strongest in that order. So, usually a phrase ends on these notes, giving a sense of completion. If the melody is on the leading note (Ni in Sa ri ga ma), u wud expect it to come onto Sa. With this in context, look at how the phrases (except for the intro humming) by the singer end in kaadhal rojave (roja), none of the phrases end on the tonic chord notes(sa, ga, pa), they end on the leading note (Ni), or the Supertonic (Ri) or the sub dominant (Ma) giving a sense of incompleteness at the end of each line. The song is meant to bring out the pain and incompleteness in the guy being seperated from his newly wed. This is a creative composition to bring out that. Good thing was the composer didnt go for the usual Sivaranjani raagam for a sad song.
  
  Srikanth, I have one question, when it comes to Sus4 and Sus2 chords, the inversions do matter right? For example Asus4 has (A, D, E) with A in the root, and again DSus2 has the same notes (D, E, A) with D in the root. So how does one decide to go for one of these two chords? For eg, in Adhisayama thirumanam (PP), the main melody starts on A, but the harmony is given on D and E notes in a pitch lower than the A note. So shud i go for Asus4 or Dsus2? Or does this matter at all which chord i go for? Please let me know. Thanks.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Feb 21 16:37:44 EST 2002
  
  Sam:
  "Sustain" is a non-harmonic tone approached by the same note resolving to one lower. For example if you say Asus4th, the aural effect is of the D moving to a C#. I am not sure if you call the second note a sustain because the non-harmonic tone that is E (in D-2) does not resolve to a lower note. Are you sure you call it a "sustain"??
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 216.65.106.130) on: Thu Feb 21 16:38:12 EST 2002
  
  Sam,
  Very good question, how to choose the suspended chord ?
  
  If I am right there are 12 in each of sus2 & sus4 making 24 in total however, only 12 of them are independent or different.
  
  Suspended chords are called “logical” relatives. Sound wise there might be very slight difference hardcore-trained purists can identify them. For most (including me) when heard guess is either one of them.
  
  Now as composer which one to choose
  My view is I choose based on what the bass note is, if I I compose an A in my bass note, I will choose Asus4, If it is D blindly I play a Dsus
  
  Now we will go back and check the bass note in that song and see what ARR has done, let me know, because I want to know what arr does.
  
  
  Note for others:
  sus4 is = 1 4 5 (instead of 3 5 we use 4th note )
  sus2 is = 1 2 5 (like wise instead of 3rd we use 2nd note)
  
  Why the heck it is called suspended, 3rd note has been suspended from the chord.
  
  
  Finally, Sam I like to know more on your background. Please email me Srikanth@srikanthd.com , This is very good question only few have asked me till now.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.10.137) on: Thu Feb 21 17:19:42 EST 2002
  
  Frequently as a composer's choice, we see that the root note of the chord and bass note shall be the same on which the harmony is built. But the composer can choose to have bass note differing from the root note of the chord...
  Root Note being A, Composer may choose bass note to be D and the chord is still ASus4 and we write it as ASus4 / D
  
  In Adhisaya song, I guess ASus4 / D, ASus4 / E is going on.
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Feb 21 21:22:34 EST 2002
  
  Sorry guys, somehow I keep thinking "sustain" when I actually meant suspension!!
  By the way, srikanth explained what suspended chords are made of.
  Heres some more you can find in that topic:
  http://www.wm.edu/CAS/music/theorybk/text/rhythm.htm#The%20Suspension
  Suspension is one of the many non-harmonic tone movements you will find - appoggiaturas, anticipation and others to name some that are characterised by note of approach and resolution.
  Heres more :
  http://www.outsideshore.com/school/almanac/html/Music_Theory/Harmony/Other_Chord_Types.htm
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.226.96) on: Thu Feb 21 22:04:31 EST 2002
  
  krishanmurthy aka swamiji, it would be nice to explain some real time examples in using suspended chords, jumping into real theroy might sound too complex to understand for an oridinary music fan.
  
  btw:Are there any pink floyd fans here?, I think most of their songs are in suspended chords.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.226.96) on: Thu Feb 21 22:15:59 EST 2002
  
  Suspended chords go well with ragas like madyamavathi, brindavasaranga
  
  madyamathi
  sa ri ma pa ni sa
  c d f g a# c
  sa+ma+pa is Csus5 chord.
  ma+ne (here it is a#)+ c is fsus5
  actually both works here , i.e even csus2 fsus2 can be played, check the kuyilekuyile pongkuyile from an pavam.
  
  also my way of chosing a suspended chord - based on bass note is what I learnt from my teacher , he is basically a guitarist, so he explains me from a guitarist point of view.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Feb 21 22:55:45 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth, theres really few songs that don't have suspended chords! Probably the popular song "Right here waiting" by Richard Marx is a good example. I will avoid Sus here and use only numbers - for eg, CSus4 is same as C4
  
  it goes like ( Iam not sure how correct this is)
  C2 -----C2/F----------C4/D
  Oceans apart day after day
  -------G4(7)--G-------C2
  And I slowly go insane
  ------------C2/F---------C4/D
  I hear your voice on the line
  -------G4------G/B-------Am9
  But it doesn't stop the pain
  --------------Dm7 (4)
  If I see you next to never
  Am9---------Dm7(4)--Dm7(4)/G
  How can we say forever
  
  C
  Wherever you go
  G
  Whatever you do
  Am--------F----------G-------------
  I will be right here waiting for you
  C
  Whatever it takes
  G
  Or how my heart breaks
  C---------F----------G--------------
  I will be right here waiting for you
  
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Feb 21 22:59:06 EST 2002
  
  Oh, again: You can listen to the MIDI at
  http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/Gem/rightherewaiting.html
  
  

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