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Is it Lyrics or Music

Topic started by Dr.N.Somasundaram (@ cf3-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on Sun Jul 23 05:52:56 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi every one. Greetings from the president of Tamil Cultural Society, Riyadh. We are planning to have a " Paattu Mandram " a musical debate on August 24, 2000. The title being " Concerning Cine Songs, which one plays a vital role in making them more receptive to the fans - Lyrics or Music".
I would like to have views from interested persons.

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Responses:

• From: R.Mohana Sundaram (@ cf1-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Sun Jul 23 06:06:14 EDT 2000
  
  I feel it is the lyrics which is playing a vital role for a song's success. Music with out any meaningful words will not last long for ever. So a song to be everlasting the lyrics should be definitely good. A song with good lyrics is the reason for its success.
  
  
• From: Dr.N.Somasundaram (@ cf3-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Sun Jul 23 06:47:55 EDT 2000
  
  Can you give some examples Mohan ?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.241) on: Mon Jul 24 06:12:32 EDT 2000
  
  During earlier (pre-IR) time periods lyrics made a greater impact, and KD engineered many a nice song to keep lingering in your mind for days...esp. the `thathuvappAdalgaL'! (quintessential one: pOnal pOgattum pOda) Not that the music those days was unimpressive, but it mainly enhanced the beauty of the words, more than making its own presence felt...
  
  But come IR, it was a different story all together! He made music speak to the emotions (just the instrumental portion alone) and make greater impacts...It's not hard to imagine because music can even impact plants & animals which may not have anything to do with lyrics:-)
  
  Through the preludes, interludes, accompaniment, BGM and even pure instrumental albums, Raja has changed the rule of the game totally...and others follow today. The sad part is lyrics have become such a horrible non-entity in TF songs that even a 7 year old hums the music intelude -cha chancha chancha chaiyin- while the meaningless lines have no impact!
  
  
• From: Malarchelvi (@ 212.49.89.96) on: Mon Jul 24 17:09:05 EDT 2000
  
  I feel lyrics are better as they are successful in influencing us. They stay in our minds for a longer period, and naturally they capture our minds immediately. We are able to identify ourselves with the songs of different moods, which has a great effect. The music stands in our heart momentarily, whereas lyrics stand lifelong.May be, melody gives a peaceful mind, but lyrics outdo the music in advising us, solving our life problems etc., They are like mirror reflecting our own life. Music gives the same feeling either happiness or sadness. But lyrics could differentiate which kind of happiness and which kind of sadness, which leads to the immediate effect of getting to our heart.
  
  
  
• From: e (@ 61.1.250.153) on: Mon Jul 24 23:42:11 EDT 2000
  
  MC, can you please specify any recent example?
  
  
• From: Somu (@ cf3-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Tue Jul 25 00:20:53 EDT 2000
  
  My Friend Ragupathy's view:
  
  Yes, Malar, I agree, but lyrics without attractive music can not form a song, it will only be a kavithai. For that matter, most
  of Bharathiyar songs are only in the books, the most famous are the ones which are tuned with good music. Hence, music
  has an edge over lyrics, it does not have a language barrier.
  
  
• From: Dr.N.Somasundaram (@ cf2-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Tue Jul 25 09:05:31 EDT 2000
  
  There is a good point from Eden. Music enhances the beauty of the words more than making its own presence felt. There could be exceptions also. Remember " Engae Nimmadhi " song in Pudhiya Paravai. The music dominates through out . Maximunm number of instruments have been employed for this song.
  
  
• From: MalarChelvi (@ 212.49.89.31) on: Tue Jul 25 17:23:36 EDT 2000
  
  To: e
  Recent Examples:
  Anantham,Anantham padum ( engiruthalum vazga type)
  Etho oru pattu en kathil ketkum....( nostalgia )
  Rara ramaiya ettukulla ullagam iruku paraiya(thathuvum )
  Amma endru alaikatha uyirilaiye ( amma pattu)
  Ketten, ketten.....( Amarkalam, Virakthi )
  Muthan Murai Kille parthen,Nalam,NalamAriya aval,Rosapu chinna rosapu(kathal)
  Thanjavuru mannu eduthu ( varnanai )
  
  
• From: Malarchelvi (@ 212.49.89.31) on: Tue Jul 25 17:35:44 EDT 2000
  
  Mr.Raghupathy
  Of course I agree, music has no language barrier, but if you could capture the beauty of the lyrics even the music becomes everlasting. Just humming the tune might satisfy the music lovers who get satisfied with the combination of ragas. But such music lovers are handfew. For them just hummings would do. You must note that all film songs have music. There are so many songs with similar tunes, but the one which is sound in lyrical beauty stays in our mind for longer period. Whereas so called musical hits with empty verses and noises die off within no time.
  
  
• From: Dr.N.Somasundaram (@ cf1-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Tue Jul 25 19:35:07 EDT 2000
  
  There are two ways of enjoying a song. One is just listening to them without seeing the concerned movie as such. The second way is appreciating it while seeing the movie itself. In the first instance we are un biased and could make a decision whether the song is receptive just considering the two factors- Lyrics and Music. On the other hand in the real time movie, I am of the opinion that Music not only enhances the beauty of the lyrics as Mr.e has expressed, but also plays a vital role(of course along with the camera)in making the song more receptive . Beause, the music not only enhances the mood and the situation in the movie but also enables the artist to act or dance in the prescribed way, there by making the song more receptive to the audience. So if one of the opinion that a particular song is good because the lyrics are impressive before seeing the situation in the movie , there is a possibilty that he /she may change his/her views after seeing the movie. Any opinions ?
  
  
• From: Akbarsha (@ cf1-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Wed Jul 26 06:11:55 EDT 2000
  
  Yes,i agree with the points of Mr.Somu..The best examples are Sankar's Film songs.. The song 'Chikku puuku raiyile' became very popular after the film came ..then the song'Mukkala Mukkapala' for different art of picturisation and dance.Even in Indian 'Telephone money pol' reached the top after the film came..I dont mean that these songs werent enjoyed before the movie.It was.. but they become very popular all over(among all the level of people) once people see the movies.
  But i think these are temperory ..Good picturisation/dance movemnts doesnt keep the songs ever.Once the film getout from the theater,becomes old then the impact is over.(people reminds only the time when it shows in 'Oziyum Oliyum').This statemnt will match even for the people who likes the song after seeing the movie.It will remain in their mind for sometimes thats it..
  But if the song has sound lyrics and tuned by good music then it becomes so popular and everlasting.When it shown in the movie, if the film makers done a goodjob (dance,photography,action etc) then it gives success to the movie.
  So as per me,the lyrics and music together gives a complete song as a complete man. At the modern world men need clothes to cover his body.Lyric is the body and the music covers it as a clothe to make is complete.Even no music the lyric will stay but it wont be that nice like the man without dress.but only music doent mean anything like the clothes just hanging over on the hanger.
  
  
  
  
• From: Ragupathy (@ cf3-adapter1.isu.net.sa) on: Wed Jul 26 06:51:28 EDT 2000
  
  Mrs Malar,
  As you rightly accepted, the beauty of lyrics is visible only when it is composed as a song with good music (I agree, with good music). As rightly captured by Akbarsha, music without lyrics and lyrics without music can not shine. I could even add that the outfit (dress as quoted by Akbarsha) makes the person more attractive. Of-course,as Dr Somu mentions, one could change his mind after seeing the situation, but the other way also. By the way, are we going tangent in our discussions?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.236) on: Wed Jul 26 08:09:32 EDT 2000
  
  Ragupathy!
  music without lyrics....can not shine
  
  I beg to disagree. The simplest example is the theme music of Punnagai mannan...it never needed any lyric to raise goose bumps...I can cite many similar examples (from and off TFM)...
  
  OTOH, lyrics can definitely not shine without music!
  
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ alc123.alcatel.be) on: Wed Jul 26 10:42:38 EDT 2000
  
  eden,
  there are plenty of tamil lyrics(kavithaikal)(literatures) and they are enjoyed without music.
  There are very good instrumental pieces without lyrics. For Karukurchi, Valayaptti, Kunakudi and Kathari, lyrics are not necessary.
  When it comes to cinema, it is totally dependent on the situation.
  Do u all remember "Aval Oru Thodarkathai".
  In the climax, there are no instruements and no speech. At the end Sujatha says,"Poyitu varema!".
  If the situation needs more music stuff, the lyric should back the music(if lyric is necessary).
  Exp:
  Ezu swarangkalukul ethanai raagam
  Paruvame Puthiya Paadal Paadu
  
  If the situation needs more lyrics, the music should back the music.
  Exp:
  Malai Raani Munthaanai chariyach chariya
  Naanoru Chindthu Kaavadich chindu
  
  Instead of fighting like this, we can all listen "Chipi irukuthu muthum irukuthu" and can come to some conclusion.
  
  But, onething is true. When the music started dominating the lyrics, the value of lyrics really gone bad.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com) on: Wed Jul 26 11:21:38 EDT 2000
  
  Basically, if you look at the way TFM has evolved over the years, the relative importance (or dominance, as some put it) of lyrics and music has been changed depending on the personalities involved during the period.
  
  In the 50s and 60s (and perhaps in the 70s also, to an extent), lyrics took the prime spot mainly for reasons that Kannadasan was in the scene, and he churned out one gem after the other. This, of course, is not to undermine the abilities/talents of Viswanathan-Ramamurthy or K. V. Mahadevan, but the verses of Kannadasan definitely proved more influential in the capturing the minds of the people.
  
  Came the mid 70s and came Ilaiyaraja. Also came the times when Kannadasan was in the twilight of his lyrical/poetic abilities. For one, Ilaiyaraja brought in a whole new dimension to melody and orchestration by his seamless blending of WCM and native folk music. This, inevitably, changed the focus towards music. That he continued to go from strength to strength in the coming years ensured that the focus remained with music. This is where, lyrics took the backseat. In spite of some excellent pieces of work by VM, Vaali and others from time to time, it did'nt prove sufficient to offset the impact of music. This unfortunately also resulted in the quality of the lyrics going down.
  
  The advent of ARR and his brand of popular music only sought to widen the gap further. The influence of other forms of popular music around the world also made sure that people started looking at music as a prospective market for a wider base of audience, with the result that music has begun to lose a sense of exclusivism and is now transcending regional and cultural barriers. Call it good or bad, but the brand of instant, universal, popular music has set in. And so has been the case with lyrics as well.
  
  Well, even now, if you see there are numerous ghazal albums being brought out by people like Pankaj Udhas, Jagjit Singh, Hariharan, etc. that have soothing and inspiring lyrics. But then, that is a different market altogether.
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com) on: Wed Jul 26 11:23:51 EDT 2000
  
  the relative importance (or dominance, as some put it) of lyrics and music has been changed "has been
  changed" should read "has changed"
  
  

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