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Good movies without great songs in recent Tamil Films - Are there any?

Topic started by cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on Tue Aug 5 12:19:03 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Tue Aug 5 12:19:34 EDT 1997
  
  Some of the recent films became very popular even without strong musical background. Like:
  
  1)Pesum padam
  2)Cheran Pandian
  3)Walter Vetrivel
  4)Magalir mattum
  5)Avvai Shanmugi
  
  I could recollect only so much. Guys, if you feel that you can add more to the recent list go ahead and put it down. Let us see how many movies could make it without music(I mean songs).
  
  
• From: PG (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Tue Aug 5 13:03:49 EDT 1997
  
  Kurudhipunal - no songs at all.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Aug 5 14:50:32 EDT 1997
  
  Were you serious about Walter not having strong musical background?
  Most of the songs from it were hits - chinna raasaavE; poongaaRRE ingE vanthu; pattu nila; mannavA.
  Also avvai Shanmugi had a couple of hits - kaadhaala & rukku rukku.
  When we talk of musical support then we should worry about only the popularity of the songa and not their quality.
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Tue Aug 5 17:00:24 EDT 1997
  
  To Ravi:
  I thought Walter Vetrivel did have a strong story line more than the songs. But still it became popular. Definitely IR has scored number of good songs in that movie. But it did not seem to influence the movie much. Reg. "Avvai Shamugi" I was not comparing Deva to IR, but Deva to ARR.
  
  Some movies that became popular recently did because of ARR's music. Take for example, Bombay and Kadhalan(Super hit movie - without a story) which became popular because of music only. But, Avvai Shanmugi did have some influence on Kamal's vidhdhai jalangaL.
  
  
• From: Gopal (@ host-207-53-4-63.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Tue Aug 5 17:31:23 EDT 1997
  
  walter without songs??
  no jokes
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Wed Aug 6 07:30:52 EDT 1997
  
  Bombay was popular because of ARR's music?
  Come on cp. It has more to do with Mani Rathnam's popularity and the riots of Bombay were fresh in the minds of public. You can't say it became popular only due to the songs.
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Aug 6 16:27:20 EDT 1997
  
  To Ravi:
  People were fed up with Maniratnam's movies.
  Mani came to light again after Roja . No one can deny that Roja was a hit because of ARR.
  
  MRin formula -
  Iruttileye padam Odum .Padathai aandhai pOL kottu kottu endru parka vendum. Oththai varthai vasanam, hit songs, a light story involving a few characters and their emotions
  
  Bombay enna vithiyaasamai irundadhu janangal ahaa oHo endru solla?
  
  In the film Bombay, the songs "Hamma hamma", "Kuchchi kuchchi rakkamma", "uyire uyire" agiya padalgalai tamizhnattin mukku mukkilum National Anthem madhiri pottu theerthargal enbadhai yaaralum marukka mudiyathu. So, it is a valid point that Bombay made to the top because of ARR's songs.
  
  
• From: NOValen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Aug 7 04:58:30 EDT 1997
  
  To: cp
  I can't believe what my eyes are seeing!
  "People fed up with Maniratnam's movies?"
  As someone else said in another forum; thayavu seithu statementei vaapas vangikunga!
  "Mani came to light again after Roja?"
  What do you say of his movies such as Nayagan, Agni Natchathiram, Thalapathi?
  "No one can deny that Roja was a hit because of ARR?"
  What about all the movies I mentioned above? Did it have ARR? (Whilst writing this, my hands are shivering - Neenga solretheh yennaleh innum jeeranike mudiyavillei!)
  Nalla irukkey unga Maniratnam "formula" One of the best directors TFdom has ever got and you have to run him down! I think you have been away from India far too long or is it because he deserted IR, that you have formed such an opinion of him. If that is the case, you are grossly unfair.
  
  
• From: NOValen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Aug 7 04:59:58 EDT 1997
  
  To cp
  I am sorry if my statements above have offended you. No malice was intended but I just could not bear to see what you have written about MR. My blood pressure is certainly up...! I have to take some time off b4 I come back to TFM. Bye...
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-to02.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 7 10:40:02 EDT 1997
  
  Nammoor:
  I am a Maniratnam fan too and place him next to KB, but I've heard my Mom describe MR's formula very much the way CP has done. Since my Mom is still in India, and I, the MR fan, have been away from India for 17 years (more than CP has been away) I don't believe CP's statement is a function of the distance or generation. It is a matter of taste; I believe Maniratnam's style has a very strong polarizing effect, with not much middle ground.
  
  I think each director has his/her signature style or "formula" if you want to call it. In my opinion MR's style includes powerful subtleties and latent commentaries which demand attention to process all of it. Even if your BP goes up, you cannot deny that his style includes songs with mass appeal, even more than the average movie, to compensate for his chosen story line which is taxing to an average movie-goer who wants his/her usual escapist masala fantasy--not the involved mosaic which MR weaves.
  
  I've chided others in this forum for digressing from the topic, and here I am doing the very same thing!! Net, to the question do songs play an important role in MR's movies' successes? MY answer is "Yes" -- just like any other smart director's movies and a wee bit more! Do songs make or break his movies? Definitely not!
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Thu Aug 7 14:21:26 EDT 1997
  
  To Kanchana, NOV & cp
  I can't resist posting this one that is somewhat unrelated to the thread. But as you can see in the past most of the threads (except the list ones) have deviated from the main topic as the discussion progressed.
  I like MR movies for their slickness and stylishness (agni natchathiram - a slick entertainer even though weak in story dept.).
  He is the no.1 director in India (deservedly) and his every new venture receives national attention. What MR has done to TFdom is comaprable to what B'raja did in the late 70's .
  But MR went one step further than BR. While BR's movies appealed only to the regional audiences (a clear trade-off if you want to infuse mannvasanai in your creations) MR became a nationally acclaimed director after Nayakan and Bombay. (Anjali to a certain extent)
  
  BTW, cp if you think MR movies are hits only due to the songs then how will you justify the failure of Idhayakkoil and Pagalnilavu?
  
  Peace in cyberspace..
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te22.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 7 14:36:36 EDT 1997
  
  Ravi:
  I remember reading that Thirudaa Thirudaa was a critical and box office failure too in TN, despite all the hit songs, and award-winning choreographies. Is that true? If it is, one more data point to substantiate the argument.
  
  I'm all for peace in cyberspace but diversity of opinions.
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Aug 7 16:21:52 EDT 1997
  
  Sorry for going away from the topic. But I had to stress one important aspect MR only introduced to the Tamizh films. It is VIOLENCE. He also introduced concepts like "Criminal turned approver", "Don culture",etc to Tamizh films. I hated his films mainly because of the oththai vasanams.(romba alattalaga irukkum, manidhil eththukkOLLave mudiyadhu!)
  He is an intelligent Director who understood the success formula and made money. That's it. What I feel is that he should have been influenced by English movies and tried to do the same in our industry. But unfortunately he could not succeed that much. Out of the recent movies, I liked "Avatharam" and "Siraichaalai" the most because the picturisation, story, lyrics & songs were all good.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj22.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 7 19:15:24 EDT 1997
  
  CP:
  You are entitled to your own opinion re directors and music directors, and obviously to voice them as personal opinions in this forum.
  Some of us just didn't agree with you on your sweeping evaluation of MR's movies. As far as violence is concerned, I don't take it lightly either. I think an analysis of how violence entered Thamizh movies is out of the scope of the TFM page and I will not go in-depth. But would like to say one thing: violence, rape, wet sari scenes, etc. etc. became obligatory key components in the Indian movie formula from the late 70's. MR did not have to introduce it.
  
  
• From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Fri Aug 8 00:58:41 EDT 1997
  
  I too disagree that Manirathnam intoduced violence. It was there all the time. Kamal Hassan is feeding it at regular intervals now and sees to that it is growing. I will not blame MR for that.
  
  Coming to MR otherwise. His movies are not following any sequence as far as standard is concerned. I did not see 'idhayakkOyil' but 'pagal nilavu' was a predecessor to 'naayakan' in many ways. Sathyaraj's role in that movie was very similar to vElu naayakkar. After 3 good movies ('mouna raagam', 'naayakan' and 'agni') came the very ordinary 'i. thirudaathE' (lot of repetitions from Kartik, mouna raagam). Then came 'anjali' which I rate as his best offering as a director. Then 'thaLapathi' was a hopelessly irritating movie. It looked as if 'naayakan' was remade with Rajini. (In kumudham's words - thoLapathi). The 'rOja' was a good movie with very good songs and it became a major hit. Then came his worst movie so far 'thirudaa x 2'. Hopeless. Then 'Bombay' was a good movie with a real good message. Now you see 'iruvar'. The less said the better. kadhai - real story, thiraikkadhai - not much diferent from history, vasanam - Suhaasini. Direction mattum thaan Manirathnam. aRuvai thaanga mudiyalai.
  
  Oh God!! I asked people not to deviate and I have given a lecture!! mannikka vENdukiREn.
  
  I do not agree that he bad movies were hit because of songs, except i.thirudaathE. All other bad movies got what they deserved, despite having decent songs. thaLapathi is an exception - enna irundhaalum thalaivar padamaachchE.
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Sat Aug 16 00:53:37 EDT 1997
  
  A very balanced statement frm Kanchana. Hats off!!
  
  
• From: Laksmi (@ 202.185.204.161) on: Fri Oct 10 04:02:40 EDT 1997
  
  Guys , I log in to your page accidently but believe me that you'all talking nothing else than nonsence.Well , we in Malaysia especially in my family which includes my father - a multinational busienss man , my mother - a soft hearted house wife ,my brothers and sisters including me ( all of us in University ) really adores MR.We watch all his movies and add his releases to our collection.We talk and argue about his movies and also about the technical aspects frequently.My grannies too love his work.I think it is very-very unfair for you guys to condemn him.He is one of the best that India ever seen.I have wrote an article about him earlier - I'll try my best to post it to this couloum as soon as possible.You - indians - I guess are allergic to good art work and refuse to admit it.
  
  MR - padangal - ore tani understanding vendum .Cuma nanum parthen - pesunen - mudiyathe.Parkenum , rasikenum - purijekenum .
  
  If not because of MR , I am sure we can't feel and imagine :
  1. the kind of dissapointment of a parents when they get to know the condition of their baby in Anjali .
  2.the frustration and strong self motivation that lead a young typicall village girl to win her husband back in Roja.
  3.a simple happiness that turn to be mess in Thiruda-Thiruda.
  4.the affection and admiration of a young couple who are totally strangers but need to suit each other and the problems that arrised due to their ego's in Mouna Ragam.
  5.the anger of the young sons who's father got two wives in Agni Natchatiram.
  6.the history and old moments of the evergreen political stars in Iruvar.
  7.the meaning of a true and faithfull love in Itayatai Tirudathe.
  8.the strength of the relationship that will never fade in Bombay.
  
  And much more to say .
  
  
• From: Laksmi Muthu (@ 202.185.204.161) on: Fri Oct 10 04:26:45 EDT 1997
  
  Hi guys - I log in accidently to your site .It is surprise to see you guys condeming the most talented director that India have ever seen.In fact , we in Malaysia really appreciate him for his good work.
  
  In specific - for instance my family which includes of my father - a multinational business man , my mother - a soft hearted housewife , my brothers and sisters including me ( all of us in University )
  really enjoyed his movies .We always add in his new releases to our golden collection.We even discuss,talk and argue about his work,direction,dialogues and also about the technical aspects.My granny's who are in their late 60's love his movie too.
  
  If not because of him , I am sure you guys ( Of course including me ) can't feel and imagine :
  
  1.the pain and dissapointment of a parents who end up with an ab-normal child in Anjali.
  2.the simple happiness and messy life of the thiefs in Thiruda-Thiruda.
  3.the strength and self motivation of a village girl in Roja.
  4.the affection and admiration of a young couple who are totally strangers but need to suit each other in Mouna Ragam.
  5.the anger of the youngs sons who's father got two wives in Agni Natchatiram.
  6.the sincere and faithfull love of a dying couples in Itayatai Tirudathe.
  7.the incredible true relationship that don't recognise failure in Bombay.
  8.the respected values of a human being in Nayagan.
  9.the meaning of a friendship and loyalty even after the split in Iruvar.
  
  
  And I got much more to say which I write soon to you all.Personally i think you guys are allergic to good work and always tend to complaint about others.
  
  MR movies - need a deep understanding.
  Parkenum - rasikenum - purijekenum - terijekenum - mathikenum.
  
  
  
• From: Nimalan (@ 167-5-241.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat Mar 7 15:57:14 EST 1998
  
  I have to say, that apart from Nayakan and Mouna Ragam, Mani Rathnam has failed to produce anything of any real class (although I haven't yet seen Anjali). Whether this is due to complacency, a lack of new ideas, or most probably, a tendency to bow down to the masses, India's second best filmmaker ever (behind, of course, Satiyajit Ray), has lost his edge.
  To be honest, the points made about his work so far seem to reflect subject matter rather than directing technique. His neorealism in Mouna Ragam (at the begining at least) is something which has been lacking in most Tamil films, unfortunately including his.
  I am slightly annoyed that most Tamil film fans seem o relish watching that moron Rajani (the worst actor in the world? Probably.) beating the hell out of someone, but when an intelligent film displays violence with a greater emphasis on realism, he is criticised.
  
  
• From: M.RAMESH (@ klj-19-65.tm.net.my) on: Sat Jul 4 01:19:12 EDT 1998
  
  Hi!!!! .I,m from Malaysia.I have gone through the comments above more than twice.It's interesting to read comments about Maniratnam.I'm glad that some of really appreciate MR's great contribution as a Tamil film director.I'm one of the most ardent fan of MR too.His inteligence and creativity is a great inspiration to youngsters like me.Although my actual ambition is to become a cardiologist , but I wanted to make at least one great Tamil movie(something like MR's movies)in future if possible.
  
  However, I'm still puzzled to know that some of you don't appreciate MR's great art work.Some of you commented that MR has introduced violence in his films.Besides, MR is also being condemned for applying western elements in his movies.And the worst was that one of you have wrongly understood MR's formula, especially about the othai varthai vasanam.After carefully reading through these comments, I believe that some of "YOU REALLY ALLERGIC TO GOOD ART WORK."(as what mentioned by Lakshmi Muthu). You all keep on creating grandmother stories in order to condemn MR without thinking twice.I hope that these anti-MR PEOPLE should step into the world of reality.Mega songs and scenes with limited violence and othai varthai vasanam are just some supporting factors to the success of MR films.(which all the successful director in the world introduced in their films).MR's movies could well succeed mainly because of the great story and the inteligent direction.
  
  So ,I strongly believe that MR is one the best film-maker in entire world and the best Indian director!!!!!!!! This fact cannot be denied by anyone!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  

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