Topic started by SRIKANTH (@ 95.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net) on Fri Jan 9 19:18:56 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: srikanth (@ 95.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Fri Jan 9 19:28:38 EST 1998
HI Friends
Lets us post all the copied songs in TFM from various other music around the World....
To start with==== a sensitive one...
1.
"Masthana Masthana" Rasaiya----Hary Belofonda 's
"Moma look our Boo boo there"
Music : IR -
Netrikan therandalum kutram kutrame...
2. "Enjodhi Manja kuruvi" - Vikram -
Theme music of Ducthes and Dirtwater Fox -
Music- IR
3. Thilothama - AAsai -
- Ofrahaza -
Music - Deva - (copying is his profession)
4. "Anarkali enai" Ulathai alli tha -
"in the summer time - shaggy boys"
Music - Sirpi...
5. Mukala mukabla - GentleMAN
Drum loops from Dr.Alban, Mj's Jam
Music - AR
6. Kuluvalie - Muthu -
Bass score from MJ's Bill Jean (100% lift)
Music AR
Thanks
Srikanth
- From: MPR (@ mo09.cc.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Fri Jan 9 19:55:49 EST 1998
Srikanth:
I'm surprised to know that Kuluvalie is copied from Billie Jean. Listen to Madonna's Like a virgin, kuluvalie is a xerox copy of the bass score of that song.
I wonder why you started another thread for the copied songs. For every MDs (including Ilayaraaja) we have separate threads. So why don't we continue there, and one more thing, among those threads, ARR's is a huge one ( no wonder here!!, hehehe!!!)
- From: gopal (@ 1cust158.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net)
on: Sat Jan 10 00:40:55 EST 1998
KuluvalilE is exacto from a song in Woopie Goldberg's movie Sister Act. Just watch the movie and you will agree.
- From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.59)
on: Sat Jan 10 01:22:11 EST 1998
Here is a list compiled last year.
http://www.iti.gov.sg/staff/kanagasa/tfm/western.html
- From: pg (@ client-116-49.bellatlantic.net)
on: Sat Jan 10 07:42:51 EST 1998
The IR song "Masthana Masthana" from Rasaiya has been numerous times as a copied song. What is copied about this song ? The tune ? There is no tune by Harry Belafonte which sounds like this one. The only thing that is copied about this song is the words in the middle of the song : 'izadE izaDE.. mamithA mamithA'. This actuallu sounds totally out of place in this song and worsens the song.
- From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Sat Jan 10 18:04:21 EST 1998
Rajaraman:
Could you update the following song in the list?
Oruvan oruvan mudhalaali - I'm too sexy for my love (in the original, the chorus comes for hardly 10 seconds, our man ARR used that for the whole song. If anybody couldn't find the chorus what I am telling here, let me know. I can tell you where exactly it comes )
anybody from Detroit? Because once I visited there, I heard exactly the same beats of 'Akkadaannu nadai potta' in a radio station. but couldn't get the name :(
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219)
on: Sat Jan 10 23:42:11 EST 1998
akkadannu nanaga nadai potta and another song 'malargale malargale' from love birds which has suddenly some drum beats coming in the song.both th sound beats sound similiar to me,iam not sure because iam racalling it from memory and both have been lifted from paul young's 'love of common people'.
vijay
- From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Sun Jan 11 10:28:40 EST 1998
Aatama paatama from Nadigan (Music: Ilaiyaraja) is copied from the 60's Rock 'n Roll classic No particular place to go by Chuck Berry.
Riding along in my automobile #$& #$& #$& #$&
My baby beside me at the wheel #$& #$& #$& #$&
|
|
V
Oru nadiganenru mariyaachu #$& #$& #$& #$&
Powder poosi poosi koocham pochu #$& #$& #$& #$&
Xerox copy.
MPR:
So, you are atleast admitting that IR is not the 'Lord Originality' as he is claimed here! ;-) (hee.. hee..)
- Arun.
- From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Sun Jan 11 13:05:17 EST 1998
Arun:
Yes, I'm admitting your statement because that is the truth, otherwise I will be acting like a ARR fan.
Ilayaraaja indeed copied songs but not always, only once in a while. But our man ARR copies always and comes with original once in a while. So I agree that ARR comes with original too, but I prefer people who are coming with more original stuff!!!! (he... he... he... )
- From: Arun (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Sun Jan 11 14:02:17 EST 1998
MPR:
I am glad you are not worshipping IR. That is not very much unlike an ARR fan!! ;-)
- Arun.
- From: SRIKANTH (@ 6.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Sun Jan 11 23:23:20 EST 1998
Hi,
"Entha poovilum vasam undu" - muratuik kalai
- Vivaldi 4 seasons
Music: IR
More to come...
Srikanth
- From: Srikanth (@ 6.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Sun Jan 11 23:25:23 EST 1998
hi vijay
Your are right they are same drum loop patterns
(AR should has purchased it from some where or
downloaded on the net)
Srikanth
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219)
on: Mon Jan 12 12:16:37 EST 1998
'en purusan thaan'from gopurangal saivathillai , is music by IR? starting few lines atleast from 'dham maro dham '
vijay
- From: bull (@ cache3.sbs.de)
on: Tue Jan 13 05:29:54 EST 1998
Well, here is another admitting IR fan in me.
The violin start to the nizalgaL song "pUnggathavE
thaazthiravaai" is a great lift, isnt it. But
I think that can be really called an "inspiration"
from Motzart!
Bull.
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Tue Jan 13 17:03:20 EST 1998
Nesam kaatrukku poovai theriyaadha
Pesum kannukku ennai puriyaadha Song from Ullasam and Music by KR, the pallavi is copy of Pochahontas :))
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Tue Jan 13 17:23:38 EST 1998
bull,
when u say copy pl. be specific.starting piece from nizhalgal song is a copy from which album of mozart?because,the nizhalgal song is set in maya maalava gowlai raga,and i do not know whether mozart composed any piece in that raga!
vijay
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Tue Jan 13 17:24:19 EST 1998
bull,
when u say copy pl. be specific.starting piece from nizhalgal song is a copy from which album of mozart?because,the nizhalgal song is set in maya maalava gowlai raga,and i do not know whether mozart composed any piece in that raga!
vijay
- From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com)
on: Wed Jan 14 12:07:28 EST 1998
Srikanth,
Can you tell me from which movement in The Four Seasons is the song Entha poovilum vasam undu copied ?
- From: Narayanan (@ 206.217.81.242)
on: Thu Jan 15 01:41:31 EST 1998
Srikanth is absolutely right. Entha poovilum vasam undu is indeed based on Vivaldi's Four Seasons(Spring). No doubt about it.
- From: Krishna (@ ppp-max1-43.grin.net)
on: Thu Jan 15 04:23:35 EST 1998
Vijay,
Ahem... the starting violin piece of Nizhalgal's "poongadhvae" is NOT set to MaayamaaLavagowlai... Only when the Veenai starts the scale changes, till that time the violin piece pretty much meanders in Sankarabharanam swarams (Major scale) even though I don't think you cannot call it Sankarabharanam....
- From: Srikanth (@ 96.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Thu Jan 15 21:19:09 EST 1998
Hi Pg
You have the answer ( spring ...)
- From: srikanth (@ 173.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Sun Jan 18 02:07:10 EST 1998
Hi
Kanavu kanum - Neegal ketavai
Music IR-
Lifted from Hindu song "kasme Vade dewafa..."
I dont know the movie,
- From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Sun Jan 18 13:36:11 EST 1998
Srikanth:
That song is in the list already, check out 'Ilayaraaja copy adiththa padalgal' thread.
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.119)
on: Mon Jan 19 02:10:25 EST 1998
here are some heavily inspired songs
kuchi kuchi raakama from senthamizh thenmozhiyal
listen to the foll lines
...parukida thalaikunivaal- from the old song and
pombalaikku then pudikkum from the new song
100% similiar, atleast this line is.
malare mounama-karna from 'aval oru pachaikuzhandai paadum azhagil....avan oru raajakumaran' by SPB,PS a fast song from film?
(BTW, is the second song a COUNTERPOINT song?)
listen to the foll lines
1st line from the new song from karna
and '....koil deepangal,mela thaalangal vazhthume'
from the old song.100% similiar except that the new song is slightly slow.the words'mouname vedama' is exactly similiar sounding to 'vaazhthume'. intelligently made into a new tune.
the above 2 are purely based on my memory of the songs.
khilte hain gul yahaan-sharmili-kishore kumar copied into
raadhaiyen nenjame-film?-music by MSV?-PS is singer
kya hua tera vaada-hum kisi se kam nahin copied to
vennila vellithattu-shankar ganesh
entharoma bhavulu-kirthanai in sriraagam
copied into andhi maalai song from the andhi maalai album by A.R.RAHMAN when he was still a newcomer in TFM.
vijay
- From: Srikanth (@ 38.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Mon Jan 19 20:05:03 EST 1998
HI Vijay...
Radhai in nejame...MSV is not the music director, I think it is GKV or V.Kumar...
Secondly Andhimalai song is not by Ar..
It was rumor that it was composed by Ar..
AR has sued the person responsible for it
As you say Kuchi Kuchi sounds 75% like Sentamiz thean moziyal... both the songs are in KAPI...
AR often uses Kapi....
Srikanth
- From: Srikanth (@ 195.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Mon Jan 19 21:47:53 EST 1998
Hi,
Adding to Kapi, this time it is copy
Vennilve Venilave in Minsara Kanavu
is just a remake of Iraivan Irandu bomaigal seithan than vilaiAda...
I forget the name of the movie--kamal and sujatha are in the movie..they act as deaf and dum, it is a remake of a hindi film KOSHYISH...
Music by Melisai Manner
Srikanth
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Mon Jan 19 22:47:57 EST 1998
the starting tune and the first line of vennilave vennilave also sounds similiar to the song "hame pyar de pyar de pyar de de hamen pyar de".i think the song is sung by ABachan in sharaabi.
- From: Himanshu (@ 169.229.36.93)
on: Wed Jan 21 16:13:50 EST 1998
To Vijay:
For god's sake don't even compare ARR's songs with Bappi Lahari's trash. If you even consider BL as a composer, then ARR for you is like Mozart!!!
Secondly, as usual Bappi Lahari had himself copied the tune of "hame pyar de..." from the great S D Burman's number in GUIDE("Allh Megh de, pani de pani de re, Allah...").
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Wed Jan 21 18:43:32 EST 1998
iam not making any comparisons.iam just pointing out the similiarities based on my knowledge.for that matter i did'nt even knew till now that the MD for sharaabi was bappi.
vijay
- From: Himanshu (@ moff351-72.lib.berkeley.edu)
on: Thu Jan 22 12:11:49 EST 1998
O.K, Vijay
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Fri Jan 23 01:23:40 EST 1998
Let me start by saying that for lack of a better thread I am making
this posting here.
Last week I started reading a primer on Carnatic music. To get
a feel I downloaded a list of TFM songs made in carnatic raagaas,
from the TFM page and started looking for similarities. I found
songs with similarities and I am writing this to share that
finding.
0. thottaal poo malarum (Padagotti)
dhEviyar iruvar muruganukku (Kalaikoyil)
1. naanoru ponnOviyam kaNdEn idhilE (Kannil Theriyum Kadhaigal)
kaatru veLiyidai kaNNammaa (K.Thamizhan)
2. meenkudi thEril manmadha raajan oorvalam pOgindraan (Karumbu Vil)
ninnukkOri varaNum varaNum (Agni Nakshathiram)
3. kaNmaNiyE kaadhal enbadhu kaRpanaiyO (Asai 60 Naal)
amudhum thEnum edhaRkku (T.P.Vazhi Pirakkum)
(sing "kaNmaNiyE" and "amudhum thEnum" and compare)
4. pazhaga theriya vENum (Missiammaa);
sing this line slowly and see its similarity with
nilavu thoongum nEram (N.T.Neram)
[paadu nilaavE (U.Geetham) also comes dangerously close.]
5. ninaindhu ninaindhu nenjam uruguthE (Satharam)
maRaindhirundhE paarkkum marmam enna (T.Mohanaambaal)
6. aanandha thEn kaatru thaalaattudhE (MVasudevan CSJeyaraman kuralil
paadiya paadal; padam?)
saamaja vara gamanaa (S'bharanam)
7. vadhanamE chandra bimbamO (Sivakavi)
siththamellaam enakku siva mayamE (T'selvar)
8. manmadha leelaiyai vendraar uNdO (Haridas)
nadandhaai vaazhi kaavEri (Agaththiyar)
(Can we add aaRupadai veedu koNda thirumurugaa here?)
9. maasi maasam aaLaana poNNu (Dharmadhurai)
vizhiyil vizhundhu (Alaigal Oyvadhillai)
10. mannavan vandhaanadi thOzhi (T'selvar)
isai kEttaal puvi asaindhaadum (D'pudhalvan)
I look forward to everyone's comments.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Jan 23 01:26:02 EST 1998
closing italics.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Jan 23 01:26:02 EST 1998
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Fri Jan 23 20:44:47 EST 1998
Enna, yaarum onnum comments ezhuthalai??
(maunam sammadham?)
Rajaraman:
Do you have KB-notes for any of the songs here?
BTW, what happened to the KB Notes for Songs
thread? Is there a TFM-page where you are
compiling KB notes?
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Fri Jan 23 23:37:49 EST 1998
SK - Since there are many IR songs in your list don't expec to get (m)any comments. :-)))
- From: Srikanth (@ 29.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Sun Jan 25 00:07:51 EST 1998
Hi
SK Ouru Raja fanun vaiya thoraka matanga!
this is what I call Blind Worship!
Ethe MSV /AR iruntha ...
Halwa than!
You would have had many comments..
:Satyakeerthi :
What is all about KB notes:
is it musical score , I can give you rightaway for few songs....
Can you understand western notation!
Srikanth
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Sun Jan 25 01:36:29 EST 1998
hi sathyakeerthi,
i missed this thread completely.regarding your similiarity u get the feeling that they are similiar,for that natter anyone would feel that they are similiar because the songs u mention are all in the same raaga:
various songs in mohanam:
meeen kodi
geetham sangeetham from kokarakko
nilave thoongum neram
ku ku ku - valli
poovil vandu koodum-kadhal oviyum
and many more.......
perhaps u can see that these songs also seem to sound similiar to the ones u mentioned.
the similiarity only arises because of the same raaga being employed.
for example i thought that even the foll songs were similiar
nalla manam vaazhga-kalyanavasantham
and
kanchi patuduthi - kalyanavasantham
both by KJY.
perhaps MSV was inspired by one of these songs to do the other song?
vijay
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Sun Jan 25 01:38:15 EST 1998
hi sathyakeerthi,
regarding your similiarity for IR songs u get the feeling that they are similiar,for that matter anyone would feel that they are similiar because the songs u mention are all in the same raaga:
various songs in mohanam:
meeen kodi
geetham sangeetham from kokarakko
nilave thoongum neram
ku ku ku - valli
poovil vandu koodum-kadhal oviyum
and many more.......
perhaps u can see that these songs also seem to sound similiar to the ones u mentioned.
the similiarity only arises because of the same raaga being employed.
for example i thought that even the foll songs were similiar
nalla manam vaazhga-kalyanavasantham
and
kanchi patuduthi - kalyanavasantham
both by KJY.
perhaps MSV was inspired by one of these songs to do the other song?
vijay
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214)
on: Sun Jan 25 01:42:59 EST 1998
hi,
sorry for posting twice.the first line in my above posting should read as " i missed the topic " rather than "i missed the thread!"
thanx.
vijay
- From: Ramki (@ ucc210.lab.cc.wmich.edu)
on: Sun Jan 25 15:25:14 EST 1998
Himanshu i agree with you abt Bappi Lahiri churning out trash songs but he too during his initial stages has come out with beautiful melodies like"chalthae chalthae","maana ho thum"
"pyaar maanga hai thumise","dhire dhire subah hui"
etc etc. His standards started declining probably due to the heavy demand he had during the middle 70s and early 80s.If he had been as selective as
Rahman he might have been still popular in Bollywood
Vijay MD for 'nalla manam vazhga'is devarajan and not MSV
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg)
on: Sun Jan 25 23:28:53 EST 1998
To Everyone:
I think we are going-off on a psychological track again.
But that was not my intention. Let me try to put
it more clearly so that we can make useful progress.
Last week I started learning about Carnatic Music
from a primer that I downloaded from the web. The
reason I did that was because of my curiosity as to
why people call two songs (that sound so different
to me) as being of the same raagaa. The primer gave
me some fundamentals of CM, but that's all. It didn't
do anything to satisfy my curiosity. Then I went
to the TFM page
http://www.iti.gov.sg/staff/kanagasa/tfm/classical.html
and started looking at the list of raagaa-based-TFM-songs,
with the hope that I can find some answers. When I
carefully and slowly sung to myself the starting
line of the songs listed under the same raagaa,
I found, to my amazement, that there were some
pairs (or triplets) of songs that sounded very
similar to me! The posting I made was based on
those findings. This similarity didn't exist for
any two songs in the same raagaa. (Vijay, note
this carefully.) For example, when you look
at the songs listed under Mohana raagaa,
1. I don't think naanoru ponnOviyam kaNdEn idhilE,
kaNmaNiyE kaadhal enbadhu and nilavu
thoongum nEram sound similar at all.
2. But, when you listen to kaNmaNiyE and
amudhum thEnum my ears can immediately feel
the similarity. Similarly I can feel the similarities
in the three songs, nilavu thoongum nEram,
paadu nilaavE, and pazhaga theriya vENum; and the two songs, naanoru ponnOviyam
kaNdEn idhilE, kaatru veLiyidai kaNNammaa (the similarity is striking
in this last pair, I feel).
I also
bought a KeyBoard to help my understanding. With
some playing on the KB I could convince myself how
two differently-hearing songs belong to the same
raagaa; also, that, the song lines that I found to be
similar via my ears have close KB notes. I was
hoping (and continuing to hope) that there can be
some useful technical discussion on these things.
I have absolutely no interest in knowing whether
someone copied (was inspired by) a song etc. My
only interest is to understand some technicalities
of music.
Srikanth:
Yes. I would very much appreciate if you can
share with me music scores for as many songs as
possible for you. I do not know western notation,
but, since my curiosity is high I will spend any
amount of time and energy to grasp it. I would
also appreciate any help from you to develop a
better technical understanding of tunes. Please
do send me these info by e-mail to me.
Vijay:
Are you talking about nalla manam vaazhga
from Oru oodhaappoo kaN simittugiradhu and
kanchi pattuduththi kasthoori pottu vachchu
from Vayasu Ponnu? If so, I don't see much
similarity. Can you please explain?
- From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224)
on: Mon Jan 26 04:12:17 EST 1998
Sathiya Keerthi,
To compare two songs of the same raaga, pl don't just go by the first line of the song. Initially one is tempted to do this, but it is a definite trap. There are many songs with very similar first line but not based on the same raga. e.g
aadaatha manamum undo
kaatrodu kuzhalin naathame
mugathil mugam paarkkalaam
Ithe style-il niraya pazhaya paadalgal irukku.
In my experience, to get a feel for raga, listen to a few selected songs on the raga. Of course, not just film songs. Some pure carnatic stuff as well. At first, usually you will find only superficial resemblance. But as you listen more and more, definitely you'll see some patterns matching very closely. (The pattern may even be a small bit in the interlude.) This is the starting point to explore the wondeful world of ragas. For some, it may take sometime to reach this stage. Patience is important.
To start with: try kanada, anandha bairavi, riti gowla. These are very easy to identify.
yetho ennoda experience-la naan arintha sila vishayangalal.
- From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com)
on: Mon Jan 26 12:20:18 EST 1998
Srikanth,
Couple of months back I bought a keyboard banking on the Keyboard notes thread here. But after discussing about 4,5 songs that thread was shelved. It would really nice if you can give notes for some simple songs here so that starters
like me can enjoy playing it.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg)
on: Mon Jan 26 23:06:54 EST 1998
Rajaraman:
I agree fully with what you've said: the similarities
I mentioned are based only on the first line.
I am actually keen to develop a keen listening
sense for raagaas. I will write to you separately
by e-mail to ask for some detailed advise.
As Rajesh has rightly said, it'll be nice
if the KB Notes thread is revived. It is
important that this thread is always kept in the main
list and never moved to the archives. It would be
really nice if people like you, Srikanth and others
take some time to put some useful info in such
threads for beginners like me to learn.
- From: Gopal (@ 1cust63.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net)
on: Tue Jan 27 13:19:47 EST 1998
I think SKji should have started a separate thread:)
- From: kiruba (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca)
on: Wed Jan 28 21:37:58 EST 1998
Have you guys figured out what Rod Stewart song is the 'pul Veli thanil pani thulI onru' from Aasai is ?
I heard this Rod Steward song on radio and couldn't the album/song .(Damn talkative DJs)
- kiruba
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.250)
on: Thu Jan 29 01:26:53 EST 1998
from what i heard of the song,i think mr.deva has only flicked the guitar piece which is also the tune for the first 2 lines of his song.
vijay
- From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com)
on: Thu Jan 29 12:52:20 EST 1998
Sathyakeerthi,
Take up a few ragas like Rajaram has mentioned. The best way would be to listen to say six different Carnatic songs in that raga. That will give you an idea of a pattern inherent to
each raga.
Once you are comfortable in identifying this pattern in the Carnatic songs, take a few cine
songs in that raga. Try to identify the pattern in those songs too. It will sound completely out-of-reach at first because Cine songs give you
a slightly different aspect of that raga. (Instead of calling it light - I feel they give you a different way of looking at it).
Personally I have found success by first finding
pattern similarities in instrumental interludes.
Once you get that feel try singing the song with
the feel in mind. Things will fall into place.
It also helps a lot if you try singing it. Keep singing all along the day - trial and error process.
Easy ones to start with are Mohanam, Sindhu Bhairavi, Anandha Bhairavi, Hindolam, Hamsadwani.
If you really remember a lot of cine songs in detail, the best way to go would be to take cine
songs and try to match it with Carnatic songs.
It has worked with my wife who is good in remmebering movie songs including the interludes.
It has taken her a year to get deep into Carnatic
music.
Bye,
Mukund
- From: Veera Akkoor (@ 1cust108.tnt2.det2.da.uu.net)
on: Tue Aug 4 21:29:24 EDT 1998
Folks,
Inji Idupazhagi is influenced by an SD number(IR's maanaseega guru), YEh dil deewana hai deewana dil hai...This was mentioned by kamal in an interview.
Veera
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