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dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Sun Jun 15 10:09:50 EDT 2003
  
  In ideological terms SNSM can be read in three ways - two of which I have covered very, very briefly - as in nudge:
  
  Marxist/Socialist: Writing unofficial accounts of oppression - how "her"story becomes "his"story by means of (an assumption) of "underdog/victim" status by the writer/sharma. The writer/sharma does not pause to consider, not for a moment, that gender might define the nature and the rationale for different forms of oppression. For, although the writer may be "economically" marginalised by the same patriarchal system that also objectifies and oppresses women, he still has the remanants of "power" that are exclusive to the male/gender. The "pen" as "penis" symbolism is played out in two "literal" ways: First, there is the rape - S/R writing his "need" on "her" body. This, given the nature of the act, can be read as the male assertion that "you have no power to define your life." What follows is Ganga's "life" as DEFINED by this heinous incident and its consequences. (He indeed writes HER story.)
  In the appropriation of her-story as his, the writer moves the "literal" to the "literary" - which is another reworking of "it may be your story, but only I have the power of writing it." The shift from penis to pen should be apparent in this ownership.
  
  The Feminist Critique: This is present in the representation of the women and their (lack of) options. Ganga's loss is also her gain: It liberates her from the shackles of conventionality - those set-up by men, also brought down by a man. After the rape, while there is nothing like full autonomy, for the very first time realises that she may have "agency" by default (and no fault of hers.) Her phone-call to S/R is the first act of agency: SHE enters HIS life (and not the other way around, as has been the case so far.)
  
  The Psychoanalytic Approach: Ganga's "search" for herself can easily be read as also the search for the "absent father." S/R, Mama, and the Writer/Sharma are different facets of the "same" father: Sexual / Familial / Intellectual. Through this she is also introduced to the political "economy" in each of these relationships: Is she seeking to fill the "power" vacuum? Could this be a reworking of the the psychoanalytic moment famously dubbed as "penis envy"? (penISpower)?
  
  So, to move in closer:
  
  Ganga and Prabhu are happy (!) for the reconnection. His view of the rape can be summed up as "youthful indiscetion" and she has dealt with the consequences and moved on. He feels mild remorse, she has been made stronger by it. They talk. Mostly, he does and she listens. In the process his "humanity" is uncovered and she realises that this is a "good" (if not sharp) man. He, in turn, is glad for her involvement - she is everything his wife is not (which, ironically, might not have been if she were indeed his wife.)
  Their "bond" is portrayed as unsentimental, but for all that, in literary terms, it is still "romantic." (cf. Saravanan's recalling of the marina walks and the telecons.) Utopia emerges from an act of annihilation. (cf. Adam and Eve - After the Fall.)
  
  Politically this is outrageous, if not preposterous. But - we're with Ganga all along, and so if SHE can accept the possibility of a "friendship" who are we to object? We are MADE to want her well-being from the very outset. So if she think this is "right" - then it must be.
  This is where JKs luminous prose does its regressive sleight of hand. Consider: Right from the beginning of the novel Ganga and Ganga's rape are the pivot. Author-backed (no pun) and put upon, our sympathies are solely with her and what has happened to her. We want her to get to a happy place, we are ready to walk every torturous step with her (just the way the Writer/Sharma does.) Even when she is not angry, we feel anger toward the people around her and her treatment at their hands. When she takes on her mother's challenge and searches out S/R, we can only marvel at her determination and courage: Bravo, we applaud. You are truly the "new" woman. Liberated and Fearless.
  
  She is (like Saravanan) only trying to "understand" the man. She is also attempting to read his "abberation" in a non-judgemental way. And so their meetings - significantly - are about him and not her. She has stepped out of that "raped" body to pay rapturous attention to HIS story.
  
  Anybody who has seen a shrink will tell you that the pyschiatrist does not say much, it is the subject/patient who provides the script (dreams, incidents, reactions and feelings) for analysis and decoding. The patient brings the issues and the text. The patient talks. The shrink listens, mumbles, draws the patient's attention to links and connections - over many sessions. Without the patient's word (text) there is nothing to interpret. Hence the need and the needful HAVE to come from the subject/patient.
  It is common for those in counselling to fall madly in love with the analyst. Why? Because s/he is neutral, considerate and a great listener (never mind that it is the subject who is paying for the analyst's time.) This, in psychoanalysis, is termed "transference" Subject Transfers All Need for Love and Approval to Analyst. Subject seeks Validation (and erasure of guilt) Through the (projected) possibility of connsummation. In other words, Falling in love with Authority (pun intended - on many levels) to set oneself "free." (cf. absent father, parental approval, rebuilding of self-esteem by "talking" up a "cure".)
  
  To backtrack: Who's the victim of Rape? Ganga. Who is rendered powerless on the basis of gender and sex: Ganga. Who is isolated and ostracised because of the rape? Ganga.
  Now, who gets "cured" in the end: S/R!
  
  What does this do for the politics of the novel?
  Ganga the Therapist rehabilitates her Rapist! What's even more galling: Standing the "transference" moment on its - The therapist falls in love with the subject - and is rejected!
  (With reference to the S/R character this is totally logical: He deals with his residual "remorse" - and is freed from "guilt" Not only does his victim/therapist "absolve" him of the deed, she wants to becomes part of his "economic" order! Hence, when he turns down Ganga's proposal - he has finally attained "closure." He has "talked" away the episode to be "forgiven" Why would he want to marry his shrink (as that will only keep the "episode" in front of his eyes for the rest of his life?)
  
  Last Post: Ganga of Nazareth. (In a bit. Need coffee!)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.67) on: Sun Jun 15 22:30:09 EDT 2003
  
  naaz,
  Bbs post is not an interview. it is an article of sorts.(probably intended for Tamiloviam) which is a spin off from this debate. I mostly concur with the views expressed there bb.
  My now off now on Net connection at my residence prevented me from adding more than my two bits. This monday morning reading the posts has made me tired & depressed.
  So I have only one point my point is that at a base level it might only seem natural for Prabhu to sate his desire. At that level he is indifferent-- no unaware -- that his action is unjustifiable. rape - even in matrimony- cannot be condoned. No two opinions on that.
  Re the mother character I read the book quiter some time ago but I feel that it is sundaribai's take that has brought about the realism.I may be wrong for that i have to read the novel..
  (Saravanan what is that Satyaraj-mohan movie>?)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Sun Jun 15 23:51:36 EDT 2003
  
  Vengayam -
  
  Sorry the posts made you tired and depressed.
  And SNSM is also not what one might call a "feel good" novel either.
  
  
• From: mini-saravanan-wannabe (@ 207.112.63.220) on: Mon Jun 16 00:44:34 EDT 2003
  
  Onion.....Is it 24 mani neram directed by Manivannan *ing Mohan,S'raj,Nalini, Swapna, and Illavarasi?. It had S'raj playing a serial rapist and dying at the hands of Mohan in the end.
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 213.42.2.12) on: Mon Jun 16 00:52:05 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz: Just finished reading your latest posts- have to read them again to assimilate the plethora of reflections therein. Whew—you have really kept your word about “intellectual sparring”, and gone deep into SNSM – hope your weekend didn’t go fully in thinking about it- if so, you must also be feeling ‘tired and depressed’ like Vengayam, for as you have rightly put it, SNSM is anything but ‘feel good’—
  
  Anyway, kudos for the detailed analysis! Chill out and take a break now pal- you deserve it- Go to Granville Island, and relax watching the ferries and treat yourself to salmon—or simply be one with nature and stretch your legs in Stanley Park—or perhaps enjoy the breathtaking view from Grouse Mountain—or simply go shopping in Robson Street, anything- forget SNSM for a while :-)
  
  Vengayam- Which is that satyaraj-Mohan movie you’re talking about?
  I would have identified it as ‘24 Mani Neram’ had it not been for your Sujatha Cine Arts reference- perhaps it is ‘Anni’? (same year as Kakhi Sattai)
  
  bb- like Naaz, I couldn’t read your article :- (
  
  Anyway, please consider ‘Vaa vaathiyaare ootaanda’ or ‘’Neeye unakku endrum nigaraanavan’ or even ‘Enna maanamumulla ponnu endru Marudhayile kettaaga’- my head is full of SNSM – ungalai kumbittu chollugiraen- I want to laugh, laugh, laugh---
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 213.42.2.12) on: Mon Jun 16 00:52:53 EDT 2003
  
  m-s-w :-)))))
  
  
• From: bb (@ 12.234.176.52) on: Mon Jun 16 01:03:44 EDT 2003
  
  Song of the Day: uravugaL thodarkathai from avaL appadiththaan.
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/cgi-bin/stream.pl?url=http://www.dhool.com/sotd/uravugal.rm
  
  - MD: IR. Sung by K.J.Yesudas. This song makes it into the all-time favorite songs list of a lot of people.
  
  - This song is a favorite of mine, for the sheer mood that it evokes. "UravugaL thodarkathai, uNarvugaL sirukathai" defies grammar, but is a great line to start it off. The prelude is such a classic. The song stands out for its piano usage, and doesn't seem to have any percussion. The lyrics too are good in this song (Vairamuthu?)
  
  - The film was a bold effort by Rudhraiah, *ing Rajini and Sripriya. I believe Panneer PushpangaLE sung by Kamal is also from this film.
  
  - MS wrote about this song:
  
  Let us start "Uravugal thodargathai". I think the film was Raja's thirteenth of his career. Please contrast this with "Machchaanai Paartheengala". We come to know the difference in the style he could produce just after a span of ten films. "Uravugal" is a well orchestrated western melody whereas the other is a folk based song though the guitar chords in the backdrop remained unnoticed.
  
  Situation:
  
  Sripriya(S) is filled with distress as whichever male she had trusted had betrayed her. She wants a soothing partner which she 'thinks' she finds in the hero H(though KH is the real hero). She finds him to be a great piano player. The music he plays is smooth that she slowly yields herself to him. This is the theme. The song is similar to "Nalam vaazha" in the first aspect though is much stronger and explicit in expression. The H tries to console her by playing the piano. The lyrics go as follows:
  
  "Uravugal thodargathai
  Unarvugal sirugathai"
  
  He says
  "Dear lady! All these days, you had taken decisions so impusively that they had put you in short term relations. A short story is exciting but ephimeral. A novel is longer but deeper in thought and healthy for a good length reading. Why shan't we get into a relation more love oriented than lust ? Uptil now, you were riding on impulses, thus falling and peaking in your life. come with me , i give you my pulse only to make you happy forever."
  He tries to tell her that his relation with her shall be different from the one she had been having with others (though in the movie it turns out to be a lie). It shall be based on the solid foundation of love and not infatuation alone.
  
  "Un nenjiley Baaram Atharkaagavey naanum
  sumai thaangiyai maaruvaen
  Un kanngalin oaram etharkaagavo eeram
  kanneerai naan maatruvaen"
  
  comparing this with "Manithargal sila neram" stanza of "Nalam Vaazha" we see that in both the songs the Heroes try to console their beloved first. The difference is that in "nalam Vaazha" we see AS imparting confidence into R thus making her mentally prepared for any tough situation whereas in "Uravugal" we see H telling S that he shall take care of all her worries. Thus the former is friendly in intonation whereas the latter is more possessive and caring.
  
  Noting that the first interlude is based on Veena with an ovetone of smoothness and sadness we come to the lines:
  
  "Vedhanai theeralam
  Verumpani vilagalaam
  Vennmegamey pudhu azhagiley naamum inaiyalaam"
  
  Now that he has conveyed his readiness to comfort her, he slowly but firmly (unlike Nalam Vaazha) proposes to her in the above said lines. The "laam" ending of the lines tend to create not uncertainty but a hypnotic effect on the heroine.
  
  I think the second interlude is synchronous with their entering the bedroom. The violins and the flute piece are indicative of a joyous mood.
  
  "Vaazhvenbadho Geetham
  valargindratho naadham
  naalondrilum aanandham
  
  Nee kandatho thunbam
  Ini vaazhvelaam inbam
  suga raagamey aanandham"
  
  Thus he invites her to coalesce with him.
  
  "Nadhiyiley pudhuppunal kadaliley kalandhadhu
  Nam sondhamo indru inaindhdhdhu inimai pirandhadhu"
  
  Now that his art of seduction has culminated he declares his result. She has succumbed to his desire.
  
  
• From: bb (@ 12.234.176.52) on: Mon Jun 16 01:05:29 EDT 2003
  
  Saravanan, to read, you need a TSCII font, like TSCu_Inaimathi.
  
  

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