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Who caused the downfall of IR??..was it VM or ARR or IR himself?

Topic started by GB (@ 161.142.100.86) on Sun Aug 25 05:25:37 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i always wonder what/who caused IR to lose his touch in TFM....was it VM's break.....or was it ARR's arrival or was it IR's own lack of good tunes lately?? dont say all of them :) just strike out...one of them plz..

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Responses:

• From: UK (@ 202.156.2.138) on: Sun Aug 25 05:46:04 EDT 2002
  
  Actually its none. He has been at the top for so long that he got so bored as he had nothing new to invent nor did anyone he get any competitor to challenge him. Knowing that for the next century or so that there's not going to be any such people or thins energing, its going to be so mundane. He lost the desire and got lazy and resorted to writting books.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 06:17:12 EDT 2002
  
  I think ILLAS never had a downfall when u judge by his BGM ,but as far as songs are considered ,ILLAS has lost his consitency ....I think the fact that AR Rehman gave something new (Music) was the sole cause for his downfall ..
  
  
• From: K (@ 68.46.180.46) on: Sun Aug 25 06:46:15 EDT 2002
  
  I disagree that ARR gave anything new. The type of songs he gave was very similar to what IR has given in "Chathriyan", "Anjali", "Punnagai Mannan" etc. While IR was known for his variety - he could give "Chatriyan" and at the same time give folk songs like in "chinna gownder" or classical like "Moga Mull", just stuck to a fromula - did not dare venture beyond. Hence his popularity with the hip population and the misnomer that he gave something new.
  
  IR had signed to do a movie produced for the Jayalalitha Govt. by GV (Maniratnam's elder brother). IR walked out of the muhurath because he was mistreated by the security present there for Jayalalitha (this was when Jayalalitha was at her dictatorial worst). GV was offended and swore to destroy IR. GV was very powerful. Also during the same time K Balachander overheard IR making critical comments about Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal during the rerecording of the movie and began an enimity with IR. It so happened that there was a critical mass of enemies of IR at that time who were determined to destroy IR. Incidentally GV and Bhartiraaja (who also did not like IR) were the two selection committee members for the national awards (Bias) the year they voted for Roja. "Devar Magan" had a more intelligent and brilliant score thsat year.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 07:13:42 EDT 2002
  
  WHen i say that ILLAS has lesser variety ,i referred to songs in a single movie ..Let me take the example of KASSI ..The songs may be good ..But it lacked the variety and freshness ...It may be a fit for the movie ,but who wants that ...?When i buy a cassete i do not need these things ,only the songs have to be good and fresh ....ILLAS had that in films like Mouna RAgam and some of his recent movies (sethu ,heyram ).....After 1993 i can point out atleast 10 movies wher his score was mediocre and or average...can u point out the same ith AR rehman ..?
  
  Overall he may have done several varieties .....which i agree
  
  ROJA definetly was better than Devar MAgan in songs ,but BGM of devar magan was better than roja .....SO in INDIA only songs have value ,so ROJA was the correct choice .
  
  Whether it is a maniratnam or kathir or fazil ,for a MD it does not matter much ..may be it inspires him ,but some basic standars has to be maintained ...
  
  ILLAS has maintained his standard only in good movies or movies directed by good directors ,whereas AR Rehman has done a fair job for movies with new directors (though it may be average they were hit for example RATCHAGAN ,PUDIYA MUGAM)
  
  
  
  
• From: K (@ 68.46.180.46) on: Sun Aug 25 07:40:11 EDT 2002
  
  I differ with your opinion on both Devar Magan and the freshness. Also in my opinion all of ARR's work has been very ordinary. I could not believe when people were raving about songs from Kadhalan, Jeans etc. It was very comical to me that people were impressed with those songs. So if you can point out 10 movies of IR were ordinary, for me, in my opinion, may be except for a couple of songs, I have found ARR's music to pedestrian.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 07:48:39 EDT 2002
  
  10 movies ....
  
  1.Rajavin Paarvayil
  2.DEVAN
  3.Rettai Roja
  4.&^% raja ( i forgot the name but i had songs liek "marudhani kai " ,"adi mathalam ","pattikattu baba " all were debut actors )
  5.AAndal Aadimai
  6.Ramarajan movie which was rleased after a long time ( i for got that movie ,but in that goundamni was a constable)
  7.Dharma ( except for one song,all were ordinary )
  8.Kanmani Kathuirruhiiraen ( which came immediately after KAdaluku mariyadhai ,starring kiram and co )
  9.Athirati Padai (starring roja )
  10 .Amaidhi PAdai
  11.Tholar Pandian
  and a lot more whose names i do not remember and i wil send once i remember .I hope u might have heard such names as they were ultimate flops musically too
  
  
• From: KD (@ 151.201.23.39) on: Sun Aug 25 07:50:11 EDT 2002
  
  u claim arr work is ordinary, very subjective.
  "It was very comical to me that people were impressed with those songs"
  ---- it is very comical when people still crib on arr who having a very sucessful carrier for past 10 years.
  
  K, you are talking from a glass house :)
  
  
• From: UK (@ 202.156.2.138) on: Sun Aug 25 07:55:52 EDT 2002
  
  "I think the fact that AR Rehman gave something new (Music) was the sole cause for his downfall"
  
  Ok first thing's first.
  Something new? Wasn't Chinna Chinna Asai in the mould of IR's music?
  
  I mean it doesn't sound like MSV's or KVM's or RDB's or any other music director's before them nor is it in the style of any Hindi music directors'. And it DEFINITELY didn't sound anything new.
  
  Isn't it so obvious that its from 'IR' with a different set top music box.
  
  OK now the second thing.
  What downfall?
  
  
• From: k (@ 68.46.180.46) on: Sun Aug 25 07:57:24 EDT 2002
  
  Taste differs. In just the list you gave I love rajavin Parvaiyil (there are three unbeilevable songs), Annan (alamarathu kuyile - what a song), rettai roja, Aaandan Adimai (undhan Rajyathil ). In my opinion, the list you are putting out are just movies you do not like - it totally differs from my opinion of them.
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 08:11:04 EDT 2002
  
  I will say AR Rehman used sounds which were nice ...that made the difference ..If we watch carefully it is the sounds which is making the diference ..
  
  somebody pointed out that"AASAI y aalai pola " was copied as "mucabala mucabala "..I do not agree with that ..Ok let's assume that is tue ..Then what made the difference ..?It is the instrument that is used and the accompanying sounds.
  
  I will agree that if somebody defends IVANN (it has strong carnatic flavour which i do not like ,but still i will agree that it has quality )..But movies like aandan aadimai ,DEVAN can never be excused .absolurte crap from ILLAS..
  What ILLAS gave only using voilin ,rehman did with different instrument ,voices and that made a strong difference ..
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 08:12:45 EDT 2002
  
  ANyway i feel this is topic raised by GB ....it makes us to think more rather than just fight
  
  
• From: Truth (@ 65.69.58.74) on: Sun Aug 25 08:27:48 EDT 2002
  
  I don't think IR has fallen down!! It is just a myth created by topic starter!!
  
  
• From: Ramesh (@ 65.69.58.74) on: Sun Aug 25 08:40:16 EDT 2002
  
  "After 1993 i can point out atleast 10 movies wher his score was mediocre and or average...can u point out the same ith AR rehman ..? "
  
  - sure i can point out!!
  
  1) Baba
  2) Kannathil Muthamittal
  3) Alli Arjuna
  4) Jodi
  5) Pavithra
  6) Uzhavan
  7) Iruvar
  8) Love Birds
  9) Thenali
  10) Oonjal
  11) Mr.Romeo!!
  
  If you think these movies are not mediocre which is?
  
  
• From: UK (@ 202.156.2.138) on: Sun Aug 25 09:55:02 EDT 2002
  
  "I will say AR Rehman used sounds which were nice ...that made the difference ..If we watch carefully it is the sounds which is making the diference .."
  
  TOTALLY AGREED! THAT'S MY POINT! Pre-programmed sound was/is available everywhere. First person to get notified by any new inventions are these indrustry people. Some stay away from it almost completely and the most they do is to make use of it as one of the orchestra instruments(*) and some depend on it 100% and these people die when you pluck away this tool(**). People like us are only informed of such inventions thru these musicians when they release their own music later. But don't be fooled into thinking they invented it. As a layman, you try spending some time on it yourself and probably you'll be surprised you end up with a song by the end of the week.
  
  Now this claim is even more bewildering.
  '..as they were ultimate flops musically too'.
  You said Devan and Aandan Adimai flopped musically(you didn't term it commercially!). Are you very sure you know what you are talking about? Or is it you THINK you what you're talking abt? Have you listened to the songs?
  Have you listened to Unthan Rajiyathil? (http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/WW00000U).
  Have you listened to Devan songs? I mean there are people who write-off songs coz the movie bombed but those are morons. By now, I think all of us know these are childish craps who don't have a taste in music but just get influenced by the masses and the commercial value of the movies.
  
  Btw, for the * and ** parts i'm not talking without substantiating. See the examples below.
  * - John Barry, Bruce Broughton, Thomas Newman, James Newton Howard, Jerry Goldsmith, Ilayaraaja, etc.
  ** - Hans Zimmer, Harold Faltamayer, Vangelis, AR Rahman, H Jeyaraj, etc.
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 202.156.2.219) on: Sun Aug 25 09:59:23 EDT 2002
  
  Mumbai Ramki, Paruppu madhiri pesadhe. Most of the movies are action oriented. It is very important to fit to the situation rather than doing something independently. If that is the case do private album rather than movie. Also there are crores of people who want like songs for movie. ARR songs are no doubt are more popular. But what is choice of movies he worked are very limited, 1. Mega projects 2. City oriented (x - sangamam).
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.197.24.195) on: Sun Aug 25 10:08:14 EDT 2002
  
  UK ,
  i do not have much knowledge in what u are speaking ..AR Rehman uses may be some pre-programmed ..I have definetly listened to DEVAN and aandan aadimai expecting that ILLAS wil give something different ...Definetly they are flops ..songs like sexy bomb ,teen age ,ezhayin geetham are absolute craps ...BTW ,the link u have given is obsolete .....
  ILLAS need not give a Mouna Ragam but he can give hits like SETHU which was diferent ...but he has lost that consistency
  
  Ramesh ,
  I agree that they were mediocre ,but when compared to ILLAS mediocre albums they are much above ..for example UZHAVAn had three excelenmt melodies ,PAvithra had two good numbers (one of them won national award for unikrishnan ) ...Please do not include Alli ARjuna and JOdi ..i never considered them ..Kannathil Muthamittal was average ,but definetly not crapp ...I agree that Mr .Romeo and Love Birds were mediocre .
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 80.110.12.153) on: Sun Aug 25 10:10:03 EDT 2002
  
  hey, hey, hey ramesh...
  actually i never intended to post anything into this run-in-the-mill ir-vs-arr thread, but to include an 'iruvar' or 'uzhavan' into the mediocre list of arr is almost criminal man. ask any musically sophisticated arr-fan about his favourite arr-album and i bet iruvar will be among the top 3 or top 5. sure, the movie may have been a flop (eventhough i liked it) but musicwise it was a gem.
  
  raycas
  
  

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