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MSV copy aditha paadalgal!

Topic started by Raj (@ hydrec2.hyd.deshaw.com) on Sat Jan 30 04:20:19 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Friends,
Under the prevailing acrimony, this would be the last topic that would seem to invite attention.
But then, I thought it is only fair enough we explore this avenue, too. In this forum, i have seen IR-bashing, ARR-bashing, Deva-bashing etc. but no MSV-bashing. Thought might as wel "Sindu-mudinjify".
Before you pounce on me as a blind IR-fan trying to bring down a great genisus(MSV), let me state my utmost reverence for MSV as a composer. Infact, I dont think there are too many copied songs by him. That shouldn't , however, prevent us from searching for such specimen.
In searching for a song that would trigger off this discussion, I had to dig deep. Finally I came up with one, what's more, I even have MSV's opinion regarding that song and it's original:

Remember "Sun mere bandhu re.." from Sujatha..great boat-man song of SDB.

The opening strains of "Thazhaiyam poo mudichu.." from Bagapirivinai sound too dangerously close to it. Actually, I would not have been smart enough to find it. But MSV himself pointed out the similarity in an interview and claiemd it as "great minds think alike"..!
His claim was that he had composed that song one fine day and the next day, he happens to go to a hindi movie and what does he hear but his own composition!!
Now, we have to take his word for it but I cant take it without a pinch of salt:). As sherlock holmes would say "I dont believe in dangerously close co-incidences".

Are there any copied songs by MSV at all?

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Responses:

• From: raja (@ spider-wb052.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 30 09:05:01 EST 1999
  
  Nalladhu Kanne Kavanu from Raman Thediya Seethai is a copy from a western classic - not able to identify the source.
  
  MSV and TKR's Anubhavam Pudhumai from Kaadhalikka Neram Illai is a straight lift off a latin american instrumental.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-63.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Jan 30 10:29:01 EST 1999
  
  Hi,
  As far I know I would say MSV has not copied much ,resources were much limited on those good olden days. Western music were not available out the shelf like today.
  There are few songs which he was inspired., he is person who does not accept copying, I say this because I have heard and seen MSV telling this very often.
  As a whole 99% of his songs were original. Like Raja, he was a sincere composer, can western music tune be used for Kannadasan's tough lyrics, I dont think so.
  
  Listen to Singapore Oli every Saturday morning, they play many old MSV hits.
  
  To Conclude,
  the famous partha nagabagam illaiyo - first two lines were from its english version of the movie.
  "Chase the crooked shadow"
  
  
  Raja:Can you tell me latin american instrumental.
  and your western classical score which he lifted,
  Simply these information are false, I have not come across any classical piece simlar to Nalladhu Kanne, in any of my grades I did. (we do cover much WC while doing grades)
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ karthi4.globalcenter.net) on: Sat Jan 30 14:59:16 EST 1999
  
  The pallavi of "Nalladhu Kannae", if it is slowed down considerably in pace, sounds like Frank Sinatra's "Strangers In the Night".
  
  Srikanth, I don't know about any direct lifts, but if you listen to "Esquivel" a Latin lounge music mixer/composer from the 60s he did some crazy fusion stuff with Western classical music and Latin Jazz. Some of these sounds are very similar to the bongo beats and accordion sounds from 60s TFM, especially the jolly tunes from Modern Theatres movies.
  
  Some months ago, I was watching the Italian movie, "La Dolce Vita", in it there's a party dance sequence where the music sounds like the interludes from "Thedinaen Vandhadhu" from "Ooty Varai Uravu". I can't guarantee that this is a definite copy, but if a musician like you listens to both, maybe you can pronounce it a copy or a coincidence with authority.
  
  You can get Esquivel's CDs at TOWER records or other big record shops. And "La Dolce Vita" was directed by Federico Fellini, and can be found in most video stores under "Foreign Movies".
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Sat Jan 30 15:05:51 EST 1999
  
  The similarity between "Sun Mere Bandhu re" and the humming in "Thaazhayaam..." ends with the opening notes. The melody portion itself is totally different.
  But there are a few that come close , atleast as far as the opening lines are concerned like "Vanthavargal Vaazhga matravargal varuga" in "Engiruntho Vanthaal" and "NaattukkuLLa enakkoru oorundu" from Billa resembled "Nain Lad Jayen hain" from "Ram Aur Shyam" by Naushad. The pallavi for "Poomalayil or malligai" (alteast the sandham) had its origin in an interlude flute piece in the song "Too mera chaand main teri chaandni" in "Dillagi" composed by Naushad.
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova17.cs.wisc.edu) on: Sat Jan 30 17:04:38 EST 1999
  
  On April 14th, '98 (Puthandu Vizha) there was this program of MSV's which I attended.
  
  In that, IR talked about one of MSV's songs sounding similar to some Mozart's piece (a famous one, I forgot which).
  
  The most surprising thing was that MSV hadn't listened to it at all.
  
  IR thus pointed out the inherent flaw (or rather property) of music that it can sound similar to earlier music.
  
  What I am trying to say is: a lot of this "copying" stuff we talk about can be coincidental. Of course there are degrees to this too. We have a whole spectrum from coincidences to unabashed pilferage of notes (ala Deva).
  
  
• From: raja (@ spider-tp061.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 30 17:32:29 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth:
  
  I would have mentioned the sources if I remembered. Udhaya mentioning Strangers in the night - maybe I heard an instrumental version of this and was misled.
  
  As regards Anubhavam Pudhumai - one of my friends ( I have lost touch with him ) had this LP and played this tune - it was fully copied by MSV-TKR dont remember the name of the lp/artist.
  
  Another song which comes to mind is Kanni Venduma -from Pacchai Villaku, the starting instrumental ( piano and guitar) sounds quite familiar .
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab2.theatrium.net) on: Sat Jan 30 22:07:32 EST 1999
  
  I don't know which or what but 'Malarendra Mugham Indru Sirikkattum' is a lift from some Rock N Roll as accepted by MSV himself.
  
  
• From: Raj (@ hydrec2.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Sun Jan 31 10:21:39 EST 1999
  
  I would like to know if MSV has done any WC in TFM. Just curious. You know, in osme other thread someone has said Deva has come up with some beautiful WC pieces in Kallazhagar. I couldnt help thinking that if it is so easy for a Deva to give WCM, then it must have been child's play for someone like MSV. However, I dont know of any such instance. Maybe, he didnt get an opportunity. Or, he didnt bother too much about WCM, because no body in TF was interested anyway. But then, When IR came into the TFM scene, the picture was very much the same, I gguess. No body still bothered too much about WCM etc. Still, IR came up with great WC scores. So, What was it that prevented MSV from experimenting in this direction is what I want to know. No offence,please note.
  
  
• From: Ragapriyan (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Mon Feb 1 01:59:12 EST 1999
  
  Haven't you all heard a popular Mozart tune being
  played by most Maruti cars electronically when
  they reverse? That tune's first line is almost
  identical to the first line of the song,
  
  en manadhu ondrudhaan
  un meedhu njaabagam
  
  by MSV (a beautiful song
  sung by TMS and PS in the movie Perumaikkuriyaval.)
  Is that the tune that Kaushik is referring to?
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova2.cs.wisc.edu) on: Mon Feb 1 12:39:24 EST 1999
  
  Ragapriyan: I don't think the tune I referred to comes in any car horns - its not so popular.
  
  
• From: raju (@ pccrnt079.lgu.ac.uk) on: Tue Feb 2 09:11:30 EST 1999
  
  strangers in the night was so popular that as was western tradition many versions of it like cha,cha, cha or calypso styles would be released. I did hear a faster sounding version and last year did get hold of 'Raman thediya seedai's cass and the similarity is more than just coincidental.
  also... the instrumental bit bfr the song itself from'oh oh etthanai araku...'(film.'adey kankal') is note for note from a JohnSusa piece. I can give u more. we just have to accept copying does exist but it was much prevalent then.
  
  
• From: raja (@ icon2116.iconnet.com) on: Tue Feb 2 09:25:58 EST 1999
  
  Raju:
  
  I think the MD of Adhey Kangal was Veda - who popularised other forms of music in Tamil. His songs even though are copied/inspired, from all sources sound good even today - IMO
  
  
• From: Kishore Krishna (@ unknown-54-173.clorox.com) on: Tue Feb 2 14:58:12 EST 1999
  
  I'm surprised you haven't discusssed the most famous one:
  
  senthamizh thEn mozhiyaal nilaavena sirikkum malarkodiyaal....
  
  lifted from:
  mohabbat jhoome jinke saath, jawaani chahe pade
  din raat....
  
  Kannadaasan insisted that MSV-TKR use this Naushad tune from Aan for his Maalayitta Mangai in spite of MSV-TKR's opposition. Also, a dubbed version of Aan in tamil had been released previously and the tamil version too had been a hit. Recollected from one of the Reminiscences of Kannadaasan books I read a few years ago.
  
  
• From: anandaum (@ 202.186.47.15) on: Thu Feb 4 01:27:25 EST 1999
  
  Yen manathu ondruthan is exactly another version of the famous Fear Alice composition. Another song
  I think in the Rupini-Janagaraj movie something Pathini.. a VJ song ... Ulagenggum nam veedu athil yenna yellai kodu is lifted from a Thirumurai song that is Tannalivan kudaiventhan sayal kandu thariyaathu.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.136) on: Thu Feb 4 02:38:11 EST 1999
  
  ABBA's mamamia is lifted by MSV (may be at the insistence of KB, who has made even IR copy a song) in the film Ninaithale Inikkum, a milestome film for MSV himself. The song is `Vaanile' (It is also sung with the words `Sayanora').
  
  This is a direct lift. FYI, the mamamia is also lifted by RDB for Hum Kisise Kum Nahin film for two songs. One is `Mellu gaya' and the other is `Tere liye'
  
  
• From: sharma JI & varma JI (@ icon2116.iconnet.com) on: Thu Feb 4 12:47:39 EST 1999
  
  eden:
  
  It is milgaya , and tereliya is part of the same song FYI:))
  
  
• From: Ji corrector (@ icon2116.iconnet.com) on: Thu Feb 4 12:49:01 EST 1999
  
  typo
  
  it is tere liye - oops
  
  
• From: Vaasu (@ gup-088-dpm2.cia-g.com) on: Mon Feb 8 00:45:49 EST 1999
  
  One more from 'ninaithaale inikkum'
  
  I believe the # 'nizal kaNdavan naaNukindraai
  nizalai theedi odukindraai" had lot
  of similarity with a song by CCR.
  
  

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