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Paadava EN Paadalai? Why do film MDs sing?

Topic started by Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on Sat Apr 6 09:58:32 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Film Directors don't Act. Film Singers rarely Compose. Film Actors seldom sing (in every film.)

Yet, Film MDs sing. What could be the motivation behind this phenomenon?

Setting our preferences aside, could we share our thoughts on this blurring of professional identities?

Admittedly, there are a few songs that turn out to be appropriate (random example: Chandrabose's "Yendi Muththamma," MSV's "Sambo Siva Sambo" SDB's "Wahan Kaun Hai Tera" RDB's "Mehbooba" IRs "Aathadi Paavadai Kaathada" ) - but are these passable tunes enough to qualify MDs as Singers? Or should we just consider them to be fleeting (and interesting) abberations?

Here are few hypotheticals:
1. It's their tune, so why shouldn't they?
2. They know their compositions like nobody else.
3. There is a famine of good, trained singers.
4. It is cost-effective.
5. They can get away with it, thanks to their status as "genius" MDs.
6. Their fan-following pressures them to do so.
7. They know Music, so they should know how to Sing.
8. All successful MDs are failed singers, and this is their way to exact revenge for all the rejection.

Let's be critical (without being crass) in this investigation. If you have specific examples of Singer MDs hits and misses - and have any "formal" insights into their (non)singing - it would be a great help if you can share it with us all.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Sun Apr 7 13:11:12 EDT 2002
  
  Breaking rules is definitely not a "wrong" thing to do. I'm definitely not a purist. IR (& other MDs) have successfully tried it and the results have been great. changing ragas, excluding gamakas that actually define the raga, changing scales are some of the examples. they are intentional and can be considered as good experimentation. but, singing off-key or breaking of voice in the higher pitches is definitely not intentional and comes under the category of mediocrity. and as artists who sell their goods, they can be criticized for it. the listener can demand more quality and can definitely question them. why not spb/kjy? this is the answer that we are seeking in this thread.
  
  nettrikkannai thurappinum kuttram kuttrame- illayaa?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Apr 7 13:24:58 EDT 2002
  
  I fully agree. In fact, IR has shown how merging of ragas and the introduction of contrapuntal of notes (eg Poomalaiye from Pagal Nilavu) are true signs of genius ( I am reminded of the Pt. Ravishankar/Philip Glass collaboration on the album "Passages" as another such instance).
  When one PAYS for the music, one (like it or not) has every right to judge and criticise (along with admire and celebrate.) I don't think these sentiments are mutually exclusive.
  A lateral example of a similar moment in Indian Classical Dance Theory/Recital will be Dr. Padma Subramaniam's "revisionist" interpretation of Bharatha's Natya Shastra.
  It is your inherent generosity, s0, which makes you say that off-key, voice-cracks (which are professional imperfections, if nothing else,) are signs of mediocrity. I personally think it to be a sign of a taken-for-granted audience (#5 hypothesis above.)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Apr 7 13:28:09 EDT 2002
  
  Small correction to the first line in the post above:
  It should read "introduction of contrapuntal notes/melodies...are true signs of compositional genius" Sorry about the errors and omissions.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Apr 7 23:17:56 EDT 2002
  
  Mahabs, reintroduces the subject of "superstition," I think this aspect of TFM also needs due attention/analysis. I am, of course, more interested in the flip-side of superstition...How does an MD who lends his voice to a film (to sway the stars in his favour) react when the public packs the venture (and the constellations with it) into oblivion? Does the same rationale (if a belief system can be called that) prevail the next time around? Or is it pona pochchu and back to pragmatism after that?
  How does this play out in the field of credibility (and incredulity?). Any thoughts?
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 128.119.85.50) on: Mon Apr 8 09:22:21 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz, I'd like to know how it works too. anyone with inside info?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Apr 8 09:49:50 EDT 2002
  
  s0 - I can't speak as an "insider," but I can point out the "naming" of characters in films and how some producers/directors use this - perhaps out of sentimentality or superstition - and only with occasional success: K. Balaje's penchant for the names "Raja" and "Radha" for the hero/ine in all his films (which are usually tamizh remakes of hindi blockbusters) and in Hindi, there is Yash Chopra's insistence on using the name "Chandni" for his heroines (usually there is this "love triangle" - and one of the characters gets the above name eg. Daag, Silsila, Chandni(title of the movie itself!)
  In the above, two hits one flop...
  Are there any such examples in the MDs singing - the results, regrets...?
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Tue Apr 9 01:21:30 EDT 2002
  
  we went thro' all this sometime back when we had a topic who is the best singer among MDs. My theory is that they do it for fun & in IR's case to prove to himself that he is human after all ( avaroda sidekicks avarai gnani,kadavul enrellam pedestalil ethi veithathinaal) Much like Rajini used to act In Hindi movies as second hero just to escape the suffocation here..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Apr 9 12:41:46 EDT 2002
  
  Vengayam - Thanks for your post. Without pointing to any one particular MD, it would be interesting to discuss the motivation of the "following" which applauds the MDs singing. Is it the lack of any "formal" understanding of Indian music traditions? Is it a mass-hysteria? Or is it the power of Persona over Perfection? Please share your insights...
  
  Surely, no matter how overwhelming the pressure from the "following" - the singing MDs should be able to hear their own renditions, over the din of the supportive throngs?
  
  BTW: "Best Singer among MDs" as a topic is about divisiveness. It is about lists and more lists. It would be productive to stay away from the "ivar ivar, avar avar" battles here as much as possible.
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 13:55:00 EDT 2002
  
  I know one thing for sure is that MSV sang his first song in 'Mohemmed bin thuglak' at the insistence of Cho who wanted to do unconventional things. The name of the movie was unconventional. The theme was unconventional. The song 'aLLah allah' was the title song which had minor relevance to the movie. The Director 'Cho' himself was unconventional. But the response to the song was overwhelming. So MSV started singing. Followed by other MDs. So if at all it is to blamed it is on Cho. I think Cho set the trend through MSV, and others are following it.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 170.35.240.203) on: Tue Apr 9 13:58:48 EDT 2002
  
  RangA - i think "Allah Allah" was sung by MuKa.Muthu (MK's son) and not MSV.....
  
  
• From: GV (@ 207.236.25.201) on: Tue Apr 9 14:26:12 EDT 2002
  
  sabesan: "aLLah aLLah..." was sung by MSV. mu.ka. muththu's song was "sondhakkaarungE enakku..."
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.164) on: Tue Apr 9 14:35:12 EDT 2002
  
  MSV's first song was actually in 'pAr magaLE pAr' to the best of my knowledge. This was a title song too like the 'Allah Allah' song which was actually supposed to be sung by Mohammad Rafi.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Apr 9 16:28:09 EDT 2002
  
  What I gather from the initial post by RangA is that an MD (in this case MSV) singing was for "subversive/against the grain" purposes, in keeping with the thematics/message of the film? Am I right in this deduction?
  So, is the follow-on by other MDs a necessity, or just the usual "me too" catch-up, topple-down?
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 17:25:11 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz, you seem to be too good in understanding what is written and what is not written too. All I was saying was that one person tried it just to make a difference and because of the ensuing appreciation it became a convention. That's all. The adjectives subversive,against the grain are all subversive and against the grain of truth.
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 17:29:26 EDT 2002
  
  Sriram Lakshman, I am not sure about the 'paar magaLe paar' song. Because in 'Mohemmed bin thuglak' title I remember seeing MSV's name with introductory remarks. Let me confirm this tomorrow. But I distinctly remember Cho's title with 'katrukkoLLum muyaRchi'.
  Are there any MDs sang any songs before MSV?
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 17:31:05 EDT 2002
  
  sabesan, Mu.ka muthu song you are confused about is 'nalla manaththil kudiyirukkum naagoor aaNdavaa'
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Apr 9 17:33:29 EDT 2002
  
  Wasn't that Mu Ka Muthu song from "Anaiya Vilakku"?
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 170.35.240.203) on: Tue Apr 9 18:17:59 EDT 2002
  
  RangA - u r correct...... sorry for the confusion guys..... thanks for the clarification RangA....
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 64.105.35.164) on: Tue Apr 9 19:50:33 EDT 2002
  
  RangA, the likes of KV Mahadevan and G Ramanthan did sing occassionally and later gave it up altogether. MSV himself was more intent on singing initially and sang under a different name those days. Upon taking up composing, apart from the 'pAr magaLE pAr' case and a few others, he restricted himself to humming eg :- 'pOnAl pOgattum pOdA', 'pAlirukkum pazhamirukkum', 'thAzhayAm poomudichchu' (the opening humming piece), 'mAlai soodum maNa nAL' etc. This went on till 'MBT' and a little later 'sollaththAn ninaikkirEn' happened, after which his forays into singing were more frequent. Luckily for all of us, he restricted himself to singing for 'asareeri'-ish and for those 'special' situations as RangA has mentioned. A rare case of MSV awarding himself and pulverising a superb melody is 'enakkoru kAthali irukkindrAL'.
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 20:01:38 EDT 2002
  
  Sriram Lakshman, Now I remember a good humming piece in the song 'kodukka kodukka inbam piRakkumE' which sounded more closer to MSV's. Was that MSV?
  
  
• From: RangA (@ 216.65.221.154) on: Tue Apr 9 20:21:17 EDT 2002
  
  And then who sang the hummimg for the song 'unnai thotta kaatru vanthu ennai thottadhu'? That was not SPB. I was also thinking it was SPB but in vivdhbarathi and AIR they said some other name like 'ponnusamy or so.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Apr 9 21:22:07 EDT 2002
  
  RangA - I wonder how the misreading came about:
  
  "The theme was unconventional."
  
  "The Director 'Cho' himself was unconventional."
  
  "I know one thing for sure is that MSV sang his first song in 'Mohemmed bin thuglak' at the insistence of Cho who wanted to do unconventional things."
  
  I read "unconventional" in the above as being contrary to accepted norms, or the status-quo. Hence, the phrase "against the grain/norms/traditions." Someone who self-consciously breaks out of the mould, primarily to make a point on how acceptable and unacceptable is defined. Would that be something you might attribute to "Cho" Ramasamy?
  
  Mohammed-bin-Thuqlak was a Satire, if I remember right. "Cho" had a field-day in the film (and many that followed) both implicitly and explicitly lampooning the current (at the time the film was made) government, its policies, and its vision. This is well-established as Cho's forte. I believe his magazine "Thuqlak" was inaugurated after the success of the film? Am I correct in this?
  
  "Subvert" - my dictionary tells me, is 1. to overthrow or destroy - as a government or established institutions (conventions). 2. To undermine, as a man's principles.
  
  Hence "subversive" - causing - "subversion". The backbone of any "satire" or creative piece that is both "political" and "polemical."
  
  Could you please show me how I have corrupted the "truth" with my adjectives?
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Apr 9 21:22:42 EDT 2002
  
  RangA - I wonder how the misreading came about:
  
  "The theme was unconventional."
  
  "The Director 'Cho' himself was unconventional."
  
  "I know one thing for sure is that MSV sang his first song in 'Mohemmed bin thuglak' at the insistence of Cho who wanted to do unconventional things."
  
  I read "unconventional" in the above as being contrary to accepted norms, or the status-quo. Hence, the phrase "against the grain/norms/traditions." Someone who self-consciously breaks out of the mould, primarily to make a point on how acceptable and unacceptable is defined. Would that be something you might attribute to "Cho" Ramasamy?
  
  Mohammed-bin-Thuqlak was a Satire, if I remember right. "Cho" had a field-day in the film (and many that followed) both implicitly and explicitly lampooning the current (at the time the film was made) government, its policies, and its vision. This is well-established as Cho's forte. I believe his magazine "Thuqlak" was inaugurated after the success of the film? Am I correct in this?
  
  "Subvert" - my dictionary tells me, is 1. to overthrow or destroy - as a government or established institutions (conventions). 2. To undermine, as a man's principles.
  
  Hence "subversive" - causing - "subversion". The backbone of any "satire" or creative piece that is both "political" and "polemical."
  
  Could you please show me how I have corrupted the "truth" with my adjectives?
  
  
  
  
  

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