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IR's Western Classical Based Compositions

Topic started by Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on Wed Dec 13 15:24:30 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am interested in collecting all the different styles of Western Classical Music that Isai Gnani Illayaraja has used so far.

I request all the knowledgeable TFM folks here to contribute their knowledge about the different styles of WC that IR has used and also list the songs.

I will start with some songs like
'Sundari Kannal Oru Sethi'
'Aaananda Ragam Ketkum Kaalam' - Panneer Puzhpangal
'Envaaniley Orevennila' - Jaani

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Responses:

• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Dec 13 15:33:23 EST 2000
  
  'Sundari Kannal Oru Sethi' - From Thalapathi, I was told that it resembles Wagnerian Style a lot.
  
  
• From: bb (@ 216.217.80.201) on: Wed Dec 13 15:41:40 EST 2000
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/13154.17.54.59.html
  this might help you.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Dec 13 16:03:11 EST 2000
  
  'etho mogam' from Kozhi Koovuthu is a wonderful example of baroque style improvisations -- Learnt from the above link
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Dec 13 16:13:08 EST 2000
  
  Can anyone throw some light on the technicalities of Baroque style?
  
  bb: Thanks for the Link, its a nice thread with lots of info.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Dec 14 03:57:22 EST 2000
  
  `ennulle ennulle' from veera has mind-blowing interludes that could be straight out of a symphony. i am told this song was recorded around the time when IR was busy writing his symphony. no wonder!
  
  
• From: P a a t a l i (@ 216.34.244.9) on: Thu Dec 14 09:31:19 EST 2000
  
  C. Ramesh aka CRAM
  IR accepted Valli only after coming to Madras after recording symphony in London.
  Proof: IR told in an Interview that Rajini asked IR how he can work in Kodambakkam after doing a symphony when he came to discuss about his own production "Valli".
  
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Dec 14 10:55:00 EST 2000
  
  thanks for the info, paatali.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Fri Dec 15 03:21:18 EST 2000
  
  add poottukkaL pOttAlum from kshatriyan in the list.
  
  If some interesting pieces can bee added in the list, the second interlude from the vAdi veththalai pAttu.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Dec 15 04:54:28 EST 2000
  
  shanjkar,
  imo, the sathriyan song has more of jazz influence than WC.
  
  
• From: Trisha (@ 203.199.38.8) on: Fri Dec 15 10:00:25 EST 2000
  
  In fact the song 'PoottukkaL POttalum' has shades of 'These are a few of my favorite things' from The Sound of Music.
  Vaan Megham from Punnagai mannan is a good example.
  Also, 'POttu Vaitha Kaadhal Thittam' from Singaara Velan.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Dec 15 10:13:34 EST 2000
  
  I thought this song had a Waltz beat (?).
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ 4.54.207.9) on: Fri Dec 15 10:23:49 EST 2000
  
  Punnagai mannan theme is also WC based.
  I like 'Oho megam vandhadhu' song from mouna ragam very much. both the songs have good orchestration.
  
  Naveen
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 213.122.213.113) on: Sat Dec 16 06:22:10 EST 2000
  
  bb,
  thanks for the brilliant thread.wow,i think it is best thread i have come across in TFM page so far.what happened to this kanchana madam who seems to have contributed so much to that particular thread. I tried reviving the thread-but for some reason ,this is not happening.all dfers MUST visit this page.most of it is over my head, but this needs going thru atleast two or three times.
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 213.122.213.113) on: Sat Dec 16 06:23:04 EST 2000
  
  bb,
  thanks for the brilliant thread.wow,i think it is best thread i have come across in TFM page so far.what happened to this kanchana madam who seems to have contributed so much to that particular thread. I tried reviving the thread-but for some reason ,this is not happening.all dfers MUST visit this page.most of it is over my head, but this needs going thru atleast two or three times.
  hmmm....discussion ennum peyaril ennavo seidhu kondu irukkirom ippozhudhu!
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 213.122.213.113) on: Sat Dec 16 06:27:57 EST 2000
  
  i started a thread called -the events in tfm at which you would have liked to be present-reading the discussion about Andhi mazhai-the song recording ,i had mentioned as one of the occasions-increases my reverence for the song even further!what a song and what a musical genius that conceived it!Raaja rules!
  
  
• From: Venkatesh (@ 206.49.110.156) on: Sat Dec 16 08:52:59 EST 2000
  
  We know that Bach had a tremendous influence on IR's style. Can somebody mention the songs where IR has followed Bach's style in orchestration, techniques, etc?
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.58) on: Sat Dec 16 20:46:09 EST 2000
  
  One of the best is "Akkaraicheemai Azhaginilae.." sung by KJY in movie priya came in 1980?.. The interludes are probably one of the best Baroque style masterpieces of IR. Just listen few times and let me know what you guys thought of it.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Mon Dec 18 13:28:17 EST 2000
  
  Oru kiliyin thanimayile - from the movie poo vizhi vasalile. The intro is (i think) a fugue.
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ 204.255.14.188) on: Thu Dec 21 11:26:42 EST 2000
  
  Pootukkal pottalum song's first interlude is an excellent WCM based composition
  
  Naveen
  
  
• From: shakti (@ 63.196.0.126) on: Thu Dec 21 12:18:51 EST 2000
  
  swamiji...pray tell us how does oru kiliyin thanimayile form a fugue.....dont try to psyche janta with ur jargon dump..please know that there are people who genuinely know what a fugue is and HOW well IR can lift them use them intelligently...
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Dec 21 14:34:11 EST 2000
  
  shakti, i would advise you to enrol in a music school and devote a full semester studying it. please dont ask for explanations to wrap it all in a single sentence. however, heres the defenition of a fuge (from a website). Hope this helps. BTW its not my intention to psyche junta, becoz that exactly what i wanted to avoid. I thought people frequenting this thread already recognized what iam talking about.
  "A fugue is written for a set number of "voices" (independent melodic lines) or individual instruments. It begins with a single voice or instrument stating the theme (or "subject") of the piece by itself. Then a second voice takes up this theme while the first voice continues on with a new, independent melody, sometimes known as a "countersubject." Then a third voice may take up the theme while the first two go their separate ways. There are as many entries of the fugue theme as there are voices. (Most fugues are written for two to four voices.)
  When all the fugue's voices are going at once, the effect is that of a conversation between different melodies, each commenting on or echoing what the other is saying, yet retaining their individual characters. "
  Hope this helps. Merry Xmas and a happy new year ;)
  
  
• From: time (@ 64.208.81.180) on: Thu Dec 21 14:41:58 EST 2000
  
  shakthi, what do you mean ?.
  (btw:who are you, your comments reminds me "someone")
  
  Do you mean to say Ir has copied from WC music?, can you tell the source,
  
  enna swamiji, your bathil ?
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Dec 21 14:46:06 EST 2000
  
  Sorry, i forgot to tell u why I think oru kiliyin thanimayile is a fugue...
  The intro starts with a piano...
  Then a second line of piano joins in later...
  Then bass guitar joins the other 2....
  all with independent melodic lines...
  Jai Raam....Abiraami Abiraami...
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Thu Dec 21 15:05:11 EST 2000
  
  swamiji:
  nIrum abirAmi bakthar!! ennE avaL karuNai! :-))
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 212.67.132.246) on: Thu Dec 21 19:20:06 EST 2000
  
  guys, did unotice a new permanent thread has been created-one on discussion about technicalities.go thru the entire thread.it is too good.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Dec 22 14:27:31 EST 2000
  
  I have been amazed by the interlude in pORRi pAdadai pennE in thevar magan. A simple ethnic groove (with ghatam+mOrsing) turns orchestral in the interlude as more and more instruments join. Classic IR.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Dec 22 14:32:46 EST 2000
  
  Swamiji,
  Now that you have your Triton or Trinity, how about some MP3 instrumental versions of IR songs and the corresponding MIDI ? I think your keyboard might sound better than the original recording for many old songs.
  It would be good for enthusiasts like me to play the MIDI track-by-track and appreciate/learn stuff.
  
  
• From: ravi ks ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.104) on: Fri Dec 22 20:19:45 EST 2000
  
  Kiru:
  
  You are right, "pORRi pAdadai pennE" in thevar magan is unique. I am especially thrilled by the ambience in the song. This was created by, I think, "Urumi Mehlam" that sort of repeats and reverberates in the background..Did you notice it ?
  
  As you know, the Urumi Mehlam is a very simple Tamil native instrument where the guy simply rubs a ice-hockey stick shaped tool on the leather of the drum hanging from the neck. Is that what you called morsing ? I don't know. The guy who plays it is often the maker of this instrument. But that combination of ghatam and Urumi is wonderful.
  
  One of the other obvious songs using this instrument (MSV?) is in the old Shivaji Ganeson movie, "Pattikkada Pattanama" where the song actually starts as "Kettukodi Urumi mehlam.." Ofcourse IR used it in many songs.
  
  IR's use of it is so unique, atypical and wonderful. Just no words to describe the deep rustic native ambience you get listening that thevar maghan song..
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.178) on: Sat Dec 23 03:38:53 EST 2000
  
  An addendum to ravi's posting on uRumi mELam:
  
  while a curved stick rubs on one side of the `drum'-vroom,vroom-, another stick (not so curved) taps the other side of the drum -tak,tak-...:-)
  
  Raja started using it right from film no.1 (thala vAzha ela pOdunga, oora veettukku varachchollunga)...
  
  
• From: hari (@ 24.183.138.217) on: Sat Dec 23 23:46:58 EST 2000
  
  Small observation abt Potri Paadadi Pennae.. The bass track in the charanam is different... single sustained bass notes, aana they are slightly off beat.I found it interesting.
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Tue Dec 26 00:25:50 EST 2000
  
  ravi ks ravichandran
  morsing is a small percussion instrument played by keeping it in the player's mouth. it gives sound like "ti yavu...ti yavu...(try to pronounce it nasal)". if u have heard the song "nitham nitham nelli choru nei manakkum kathhirikka.." from 'muLLum malarum' this morsing is used very much. in "pottri paadadi pennae.." this instrument is also used along with ghatam in the preliminary stage of this song. this is what kiru was mentioning in his posting.
  
  i think, as u have observed urumi maelam is also used in this song.
  
  

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