Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.132) on: Tue Apr 11 16:02:31 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,kiru,rjay,and aruL,
  Thanks for making this thread a great one. This is what I've been craving all these years. A true discussion where the only thing getting sharp is our collective knowledge. Bravo.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ brkfw0005.navistar.com) on: Tue Apr 11 16:43:15 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru
  
  I have developed a respect for Kavi, I was
  just pointing half-funnily to his manifesto.
  I suspect that he is a man with a mission and will
  make a difference!
  
  I live in Ohio and let me know if you live
  closeby. Your half decent system should be
  much better than my boombox and PC speakers!
  
  Udaya
  
  Nice to know you are reading and enjoying.
  
  
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Tue Apr 11 19:31:25 EDT 2000
  
  Here's the suppudu's IR-ARR comparison verbatim :
  you'll need SHREE802.TTF font to view this. The font is avaialble at http://www.dinamalar.com/font.htm
  
  Cøͯµáõ & µð©õß £ØÔ 13.04.2000 S¬u® CuÈÀ _¨¦k.
  
  ""µð©õß ö\´ux \¶¯õ GßÖ AÁøµ÷¯ ÷PmQ÷Óß''
  
  \«£zvÀ J¸ i.Â. |PÌa]°À H.Bº.µð©õÛß Cø\ø¯ ©º]zx ]» P¸zxUPøÍa ö\õÀ¼°¸¢uõº Cø\ ©º\Pº _¨¦k. µð©õøÚz uß ÁÇUP©õÚ BUéõ ¨÷Ík Tºø©²hß Â©º]zuÁº, CøͯµõáõÄUS uß ìö£åÀ öåõmkUPøͲ® öu¶Âzv¸¢uõº.
  
  "µð©õß, µõáõ, C¸Á¶ß Cø\ø¯²® S¬uzxUPõP J¨¤mk ©º\Ú® ö\´²[P÷Íß' GßÖ ÷PmhuØS EØ\õP©õP, _ha_h _¨¦k AÎzu ©º\Ú®.
  
  ""µð©õß, Cøͯµõáõ C¸Á¸® CßÖ E»P¨ ¤µ]zv ö£ØÖ Ea\õoUQøÍ°À EmPõº¢v¸UQÓõºPÒ. AxÄ® µð©õß £z©ÿ £mh÷© ö£ØÖÂmhõº. Ax÷£õÀ CøͯµõáõÄ® "÷íµõ®' £hzvØS Cø\ Aø©UP í[÷P¶ {õmkUSa ö\ßÖ A[SÒÍ Cø\ ÷©øuPøÍ øÁzxU öPõsk ]®£Û u¯õ¶zx AÁºPÎh÷© £õµõmk Áõ[Q C¸UQÓõº. µð©õß »shß ö\ßÖ A[S ¯õ÷µõ J¸ ö£¶¯ Cø\ {hzxÚº Th ÷\º¢x Cø\ Aø©UP¨ ÷£õQÓõº GßÖ ö\´vPÒ. öµõ®£¨ ö£¸ø©¨£h ÷Ási¯ Â寮. C¸Á¸US® Gß £õµõmkUPÒ.
  
  ¤µ£»® J¸¦Ó® C¸UPmk®. J¸ B´ÁõÍß ¤µ£»® JßøÓ ©õzvµ® øÁzx ¯õøµ²® Gøh ÷£õh ¬i¯õx. Euõµn©õP »õ¾¤µ\õz ¤.÷á.¤US usoPõmi C¸UQÓõº. uß, øP{õmk ©øÚÂø¯ ¥íõ¶À ¬uß ©¢v¶ BUQ C¸UQÓõº. BÚõ¾® ¥íõº ©UPÎøh÷¯ AÁ¸øh¯ ö\ÀÁõUS Av\¯©õÚx. CzuøÚUS® AÁº «x® »õ¾ «x® »g\»õÁs¯ ÷PéúPÒ Hmi»h[PõuøÁ. ¤ß G¨£i Gøh ÷£õkÁx?
  
  Gß ]ØÓÔøÁ øÁzx J¸ ]Ô¯ B´Ä ö\´¯ ¬¯Ø]UQ÷Óß. Gß B´Ä \¶uõÚõ GßÖ, Áõ\PºPÒ wº¨£ÎUPmk®. Cøh÷¯ J¸ Â寮 \©º¨¤UP ¸®¦Q÷Óß. G¢uU öPõ®£ÚõÚõ¾® AÁß ö£õx÷©øhUS Á¢xÂmhõÀ AÁøÚ Â©º]UP ©UPÐUSz uSv Esk, E¶ø© Esk. QÎshß £hõu £õhõ? Tº¢x ÷{õUQÚõÀ CøͯµõáõøÁ¨ £ØÔ J¸ Esø© ¦»¨£k®. AÁº ÷©ØPzv¯ Cø\°¾® {À» ÷uºa] EÒÍÁº.
  
  AøÁPøÍ ¬øÓ¯õPU PØÖU öPõshÁº. Cø\zxøÓ°À AÁº £µ© øÁvPº. AøÁPÎß ö{ÎÄ _ÎÄPøÍ {ßÓõP AÔ¢uÁº. J¸ ¬Ê ]®£Ûø¯ ]» ©o÷{µ[PÎÀ PÊzvÀ ÁiUPUTi¯ A£õµzvÓø© ö£ØÓÁº. í[÷P¶°À Ax |uº\Ú©õ°ØÖ. BP÷Á AÁ¸øh¯ ©Ú¨£õßø© ©Ú¨÷£õUS AÁøµ²® AÔ¯õ©À J¸ Pmk¨£õmkUS Em£mkÂmhx. J¸ EÁø©¯õPa ö\õßÚõÀ AÁº J¸ "÷Á¼uõshõ öÁÒÍõk' ÷¯õ]zx¨ £õ¸[PÒ. Bv\[Pµº Em»sì ÷íõmh¼À HºPsiåß AøÓ°À ö{´ µÁõ÷uõø\ \õ¨¤kÁõµõ? Em»smì ÷íõmhø» {õß SøÓ ö\õÀ»ÂÀø». Ax öµõ®£ _zu©õÚ, ¤µ£»©õÚ EnÄ Âkv. Bv\[Pµº AÁ¸øh¯ B\õµU Pmk¨£õkPÎÚõÀ A[S \õ¨¤kÁx AÁº A©º¢v¸US ©øÚUS, AuõÁx ¥hzvØS EÁ¢uuõPõx. ÷©¾® AÁº |µ®£ CøÓ {®¤UøP EÒÍÁº. AÁ¸øh¯ ]» Cø\¨¤µ÷¯õP[PÎÀ J¸ DºUS® Põ¢u \Uv C¸US®. Euõµn® & ö\¢xõµ¨ §÷Á' A¢u J¸ Á¶°À J¼US® {õu£¶©õn® GßøÚ ©õuU PnUQÀ Bmi øÁzux.
  
  Akzu£i µð©õÝUS Á¸÷Áõ®. {õß TÓ¨÷£õÁx GßÝøh¯ ö\õ¢u AÝ©õÚ®. Bv\[Pµ¸US¨ §qõÀ ÷Ásk©õ? C»UPnU Pmk¨£õkPÐUS Em£mk ø©¨£x J¸ÁøP. Aøu «Ô {õu E»QÀ \g\¶UP ¬¯ÀÁx ÷ÁÖ ÁøP. AÁ¸øh¯ Cø\°À Cøu A÷©õP©õPU PõsQß÷Óß. Cø\ C»UPn® öu¶¢v¸¢uõÀ, C¢u ©õv¶ øu¶¯©õ´ AuÛßÖ® Âk£mk {õuU P»øÁPÎÀ AÁº Dk£mi¸¨£õµõ Gߣx \¢÷uP®. C»UPn® GßÖ GkzxU öPõshõÀ Au ©Ûuß ÁSzux uõ÷Ú? BÚ¢u ø£µÂUS A¢uµPõ¢uõµ® Qøh¯õx. Ax Áµõ©À B»õ£øÚ ö\´uõÀ Gk£hõx. AÁº uõÍzøu ø©¯©õP øÁzx Cø\÷Põ¨¦ ö\´QÓõº Gߣx GßÝøh¯ B´Ä E»P÷© uõÍzvØS Pmk¨£mhx.
  
  uõÍzvØS áõv, ©u÷£u, ¤µ÷u\ Âz¯õ\[Pº Qøh¯õx. G[S ÷£õÚõ¾® Cµsk®, Cµsk® {õ¾uõß. Rhythm has Universal appeal. {©x iµ®©º ]Á©oø¯ GkzxU öPõÒÐ[PÒ. JÊ[PõP ª¸u[P® PØÖUöPõsh »¯ ÂzÁõß. öuß C¢v¯õÂ÷»÷¯ ª¸u[P® Áõ]zx uß ¤øǨø£ {hzvU öPõsi¸¢uõÀ, AÁ¸® Sska \mi°À Svøµ KmiU öPõsi¸¨£õº. Aøu uºzx £» Âu©õÚ uõÍ Áõzv¯[PøÍ GhzxU öPõsk, ÷Põ©õÎ öuõ¨¤ Ao¢x öPõsk, Põv÷» §ÄUS £v»õP ø\UQÒ \UPµ® ø\_US Áøͯ® ÷£õmkU öPõsk E»P¨¤µêzv ö£ØÖ ÂÍ[SQÓõº. µð©õÛh® C÷u ©Ú¨£õßø© C¸¨£vÚõÀ AÁº {õu E»PzvÀ \g\¶zx, µ]PºPøÍ ¬kUQ Gʨ£UTi¯ »SÁõÚ uõͨ ¤µ÷¯õP[PøÍ øÁzx á©õ´UQÓõº. AÁ¸USU PØ£øÚzvÓß G¢u AÍÂØS C¸UQÓöußÖ GÚUSz öu¶¯õx. BÚõÀ Asø©°À "\[P©®' GßÓ vøµ¨£hzvÀ AÁ¸øh¯ Cø\ A¢uìvØSz uPõu JÆöÁõu J¸ Põ¶¯® ö\´v¸UQÓõº Gߣx GÚUS ªS¢u ÷ÁuøÚ AΨ£÷uõk, AÁµx PØ£øÚ Áͬ® ÁÓskÂmh÷uõ GßÖ I¯® GÊ¢ux. {õß GøuU SÔUQ÷Óß GßÖ Áõ\PºPÒ J¸©õv¶ FQzv¸¨¥ºPÒ. ¤µêzv ö£ØÓ Á[Põͨ £õhQ £õi¯ "©ìz P»¢uº' GßÓ £õmk ö©møh A¨£mh©õPU Põ¨¤ Aizx J¸ £õmøh AÁº ÁÇ[Q C¸¨£x |¯õ¯©õ GßÖ AÁøµ÷¯ ÷PmQ÷Óß.
  
  Põ»® ©õÔ Á¸QÓx. Psnuõ\Ý® £mkU÷Põmøh²® P¸zuõǬÒÍ £õhÀPøÍ C¯ØÔÚõºPÒ. BÚõÀ ¬Põ¦»õ, ÷hU Cm Dê A£zu[PöÍÀ»õ® CßÖ öPõiPmi¨ £ÓUQßÓÚ. ©ßÚÁß Á¢uõÚi, {õÍõ® {õÍõ® v¸{õÍõ®, £õ¼¸US® £Çª¸US® ÷£õßÓ A©µzÁ® ö£ØÓ £õhÀPÒ CßÖ Põnõ©À ÷£õ´ÂmhÚ. JßÖ PÁÛzwºPÍõ! "í®©õ í®©õ í®©õ GßÓ £õmk (Bíõ GßÚ éõîz¯®'' CßÖ P®£ß CÀø»÷¯ GßÖ Gß ©Ú® H[SQÓx) J¸ ÷Põi Cø\°À ÷ÁP©õP ¬ßÝUS Á¢u EßÛQ¸ènß, |z¯ÿ ÷£õß÷íõº Th C¢u ©õ¯ Áø»°À ]UQ C¸UQÓõºP÷Í GßÓ Gß ©Ú® H[SQÓx.
  
  BÚõÀ JßÖ! G¢uU Pø»²® Aȯõx, HØÓzuõÌÄPÒ Á¸®, ÷£õS®, C¢v¯õÂÀ BìvP¬® CuµU Pø»PЮ ¯õ£õµ¨ ö£õ¸ÒPÍõQÂmhÚ Gߣxuõß Gß Á¸zu®.
  
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Apr 11 19:55:20 EDT 2000
  
  rjay, kiru,
  
  good going.
  
  rjay, regarding bernstein, mmm... . he is a good musician. he was a major inspiration for many people, including bobby mcferrin (who i think is a great singer - his shruthi control is awesome)!. if you read the sleeve notes of "bobby mcferrin conducts classical music" (or some similar title), he says that bernstein encouraged him saying "it's nothing but jazz"!!
  
  bernstein gave a series of lecture on wcm for pbs at (i think) carnegie hall sometime in the 50s (i think 54-55). i forgot the title of the series (it goes like young masters series ...) this is the absolutely easiest way to get introduced to wcm. these videos should be available in the public libraries throughout the country. i would strongly recommend anyone with a mild interest in orchestral music to rent it out and watch and listen.
  
  
• From: ganesh (@ global.com) on: Tue Apr 11 22:58:05 EDT 2000
  
  chandy,
  
  can you post a link to that subbudu page?
  
  
• From: Bramathalam (@ 208.0.121.67) on: Tue Apr 11 23:34:45 EDT 2000
  
  Old song "Nenjam Marapathillai" from the movie Nenjam Marapathillai music by MSV/TKR is recycled as "Evano Oruvan" in Alai Payuthey. Listen to both the songs u will find it out.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Tue Apr 11 23:59:09 EDT 2000
  
  Bramathalam
  vanYuyarntha solaiYelle also closly resembles Nenjam Marapathillai, infact the start is almost the same...
  
  IMHO it is termed as basic inspiration,
  
  we need to see the song's situation to decide.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Bramathalam (@ 208.0.121.65) on: Wed Apr 12 00:59:30 EDT 2000
  
  But Srikanth Vanyurntha Solai ellae may be inspired from that songs but it was not a ditto copy like Evano. Thats my vatham.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.159) on: Wed Apr 12 01:09:06 EDT 2000
  
  Chandy,
  What's this sangamam song that Subbudu is alleging about?
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Wed Apr 12 01:17:55 EDT 2000
  
  Bramathalam ,
  Athu epidinga, rahman panna mattuM lifTa...why cant it be insipiration,
  
  I prefer not to utter loose talks from my side,
  
  Notes wise prove it -- chords wise prove it --
  in what way you say these songs are same,
  just justify your claim musically,
  
  please dont come with a statement that I dont know much of music etc etc, prove it musically.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ sttl6400gw3poolc77.sttl.uswest.net) on: Wed Apr 12 01:19:00 EDT 2000
  
  also i heard all the songs just for your sake, which song you are talking about.,
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Wed Apr 12 03:35:53 EDT 2000
  
  eden,
  
  This is the first time I'm hearing about that mast kalandar bengali song.... My guess that it is varaha nadhu karai oram of sangamam which is talking about.
  
  If someone can provide complete details about tha mast kalandar song, it would be great
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Wed Apr 12 03:37:09 EDT 2000
  
  ganesh @ global.com,
  
  Go to dinamalar site and then to pira ithazgal option
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: rjay (@ dytna010-0253.splitrock.net) on: Wed Apr 12 03:42:37 EDT 2000
  
  Arul
  
  Bernstein's series is called 'The joy of
  music,' if my memory is right. Sridhar Seetharaman
  introduced me to the series and I read the book
  instead of watching the video.
  
  rjay
  
  
• From: Sashi ( not the reviewer ) (@ sj-netcache.cadence.com) on: Wed Apr 12 04:19:13 EDT 2000
  
  Sorry I don't remember the exact words..
  
  But the lines
  Nenju Dhikku Dhikku dhikkundhu..Oh Oh Oh
  Uyir .... Oh Oh Oh
  ... Oh Oh Oh
  
  resemble a few lines from the Runa Laila ( Bangladeshi singer ) song Dhama dham mast kalandar
  
  -Sashi ( not the reviewer:-))
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments