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SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced

Topic started by greatest_spb_fan (@ 212.2.14.241) on Thu Aug 2 04:57:19 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

why don't anybody start a thread like 'SPB the greatest singer that India had ever produced', pls

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Marathamizhan (@ rm208-31.dsl.fsu.edu) on: Wed Aug 15 11:53:38 EDT 2001
  
  Its really nice to see swamis analyis...
  but then he didnt talk much about kishore kumar or the change in modulations/tones that he could give...for eg in the movie "chupkey chupkey" where both of them sing together i found kishore's voice to have a better depth and punch than rafi's ....
  which i could find in SPB..
  
  
• From: marathamizhan (@ rm208-31.dsl.fsu.edu) on: Wed Aug 15 11:59:07 EDT 2001
  
  But then SPB's voice doesnt sound exceptional in hindi music is because
  1.the pronounciaton has a bit of southi touch to it(but still i like it)
  2.his voice has a fabulous depth which doesnt suit the hindi heroes who basically have a feminish touch...say except for someone like amithabh.
  jackie sheroff-spb combination is a decent one.
  
  
• From: KS (@ sreekanth.wcom.com) on: Wed Aug 15 12:03:14 EDT 2001
  
  Vanakkam Sir,
  
  Thank you!!! Thanks a lot for sharing your invaluable opinion and experiences about the singing greats. Your detailed explanations were a treat to read. Words fail me when I want to express my gratitude to you for the patience you have exhibited and the kind of effort you have put in to explain things to us.
  
  Thank you Sir!!!
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Wed Aug 15 12:28:18 EDT 2001
  
  "jackie sheroff-spb combination is a decent one."
  
  I remember a song - "Sundariya" from a hindi films called I think "100 days". Could anyone clarify ?
  
  
• From: Amit (@ 216.141.126.194) on: Wed Aug 15 12:47:33 EDT 2001
  
  Swami: Awesome analysis. Thanks for the effort. I agree wholeheartedly but I too do think that Kishore, though not putting in 100% all the time, had a very rich voice, lot of lung power, could sound very sweet when he wanted to and had an open throat in his upper range.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Wed Aug 15 13:41:41 EDT 2001
  
  Swami Sir your analysis was really great. Too much of patience to type and lot of examples, great memory.
  
  I feel Kishore Kumar was the most versatile person ever in Indian Film Industry. He acted, directed movies, produced movies, gave music, written lyrics and top of this he has given the best in singing. Most of them were terrific hits. I dont think anybody is more versatile in IFM, even rafi or SPB. The songs I like best of KK is Aa chal ke tujhe main leke chaloon, from door gagan ki choan me. Can anybody imagine a lyric like that, he has written, composed. acted, sang for that song.
  
  Please visit http://www.aalapana.com/k_actingprofile.htm for his acting profile.
  
  His voice had full life in it whatever the mood may be. His voice had the youthness I admire him just for this only.
  
  Most people who started listening from 70's like Kishore than Rafi because if you listen both singing togather definetely Kishore sounds great. ( Hum kise se kum nahin etc,). But Rafi was at his fag end of his career, and kishore in peak. But that Rafi was not actual Rafi.
  
  He also like SPB never had classical music experience but still did few numbers. Rafi was one of the greatest singer no doubt in that.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ oneway.convex.com) on: Wed Aug 15 13:54:35 EDT 2001
  
  swami ,
  
  with much respect to your excellent analysis and examples, which ooze with your knowledge and experience. I still politely differ in the fact that the same "tharasu" is not being used to judge spb? I am not a die hard fan of spb as much as I am of KJY. ButI still feel that we are comparing (inspite of a lot of your tamil examples) spb hindi songs Vs Rafi's hindi songs.
  
  Although certain people brough in Kumar sanu which you might not have listened at all. In keeping our comparisons limited to spb,rafi and KK alone do we have the scale to compare these 3 justifiably. much has been said abt sachin Vs Gavaskar Vs richards. But still the mighty factor of time makes it impossible to rate these 3.
  
  we r simply limited to speculations and spb, since he belongs to the present, has a larger bias going against them because of our nature to judge the past as better. Because of a better perspective available now!
  
  Rafi should have been ruling in younger days and imitating and being like him mustve been a young mans dream. As it happens in any mans life the change of times is always to the worse and so in the worsening time you might have seen spb being a frontruner and so may not have placed in in the correct perspective as we youngsters place him as the voice of our nostralgia!
  
  It is this zero error sir! that i wuld like you to be aware of!
  
  
• From: Amit (@ 216.141.126.194) on: Wed Aug 15 14:42:36 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath: Though I consider Rafi God, I am impressed by your argument. Esp the tendency to view the past with rose tints. And this tendency has no barriers. Music, singers, actors...well, maybe not TVs and cell phones :) However, an interesting question (to me that is) could be: when does a person or thing rise to be worthy of being labelled great or a legend? Because just as there are deriders of SPB, there sure were of Rafi and Kishore.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ oneway.convex.com) on: Wed Aug 15 17:02:01 EDT 2001
  
  //"when does a person or thing rise to be worthy of being labelled great or a legend? Because just as there are deriders of SPB, there sure were of Rafi and Kishore"//
  
  well! to put it simply! A person can be compared with his contemporaries if there is a criteria for measuring success (like Lara Vs sachin and the wisden 100). So many indians will disagree with the wisden 100 innings. All of them would not know how the ranking was done. personally being the greatest fan of sachin I agree with wisden!
  
  This I said if you were comparing spb and lets say HariHaran.
  
  But SPB and Rafi is like sachin Vs Bradman. The best definition of a legend is simply saying he was the greatest amongst his contemporaries!
  
  40 years from now when we r dodderingly old we and our next generation will deify spb/MR/ARR/IR and thereby trashing the younger generation then. Poor younger generation , they can compete when pitten with raw talent but how can they be 20 yrs expereinced when they start a career! They cant talk trash abt dead people so they just have to gulp down all comparisons and go along with the tide...
  
  
• From: Indian Music Fan (@ to-cf3.sprint-canada.net) on: Wed Aug 15 23:34:50 EDT 2001
  
  Swami, i was really pleased at your posting and i found it excellent to read !!.
  
  Rafi is truly a great monarch in our industry and the facts you laid out were more proof of that.
  
  Bharat : We are comparing how SPB and Rafi both sing overall and not just in hindi and tamil. Yes, the languages are different and so you have to take that into consideration but you can still talk about overall singing leaving the language factor aside. With this i mean as Swami pointed out comfort level, range, expressiveness, voice etc. Language does not matter if you are talking about these factors because you are taking their overall singing as a whole. If you are talking about factors such as breathing then language comes into the picture as it plays a crucial role.
  
  Kishore Kumar was versatile i agree when it comes to doing different things such as directing, acting, music directing, acting etc. But when it comes to singing I feel Kishore Kumar was not versatile. KK was never as versatile as Rafi and will never be as versatile as Rafi and SPB for that matter. Could KK sing a qawalli, ghazal, bhajan, classical song etc. Even if he tried to sing these it would not be in the same class as Rafi. And beleive me, i have heard many of KK's songs and i do not find anything extraordinary about them. Even pathos songs such as "pyar diwana hota hai" and "tum bin jaoun kahan", KK tries to sing at the high pitches he can't go very high and it seems as if he is struggling to reach these notes. He had no range and the only songs that suited him were songs that can be sung at a normal pitch where you do not need to change your voice. Also, his voice wasn't sweet or as beautiful as Rafi's voice. It sounded rough and too thick at times. Even if he tried to sing in a calm and collective matter, his voice could not reach the class of Rafi as well as SPB. And when those two sung together, Rafi definetely sounded better as he could express way more emotions effortlessly as well as had a better voice. And talking about modulations, KK was good at mimicking actors but Rafi was better at mimicking as well as sounding like them and modulating for them which was a gift. Rafi sounded better I feel on Rajesh Khanna and Amitabh Bachchan than did KK. It was only because of RDB that KK became a voice for these two actors. KK sounded ugly on stars such as Dharmendra, Shashi Kapoor and others of whom Rafi had matched so perfectly. Rafi also was not at the fag end of his career as NCR mentioned. He was singing for the younger generation of heroes such as Rishi Kapoor, AB, as good as he sang for others and his voice sounded younger than ever. He would have continued singing for them if he hadn't passed away so suddenly. KK faced no threat to Rafi in terms of singing but the media is the one who has hyped it up A LOT !!!. In fact, sources have said that KK himself said that he is the biggest fan of Rafi and that Rafi is the greatest and all that comparison between them is nonsence. True there was competition between the two but Rafi clearly was at the top. When he unfortunately passed away, HFM deteriorated in the eighties. If KK was really as great as Rafi he could have made it stay at the top which it did not.
  
  Swami, if you don't mind can you please share a few more comments and things that SPB and KJY have said about Rafi which you have heard from them.
  
  
  
• From: Raguvaran (@ 212.2.14.241) on: Thu Aug 16 08:56:05 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji sir;
  
  You analysis are indeed, excellent, but I only see a few discussion about Dr.SPB, I strongly think that Rafi ruled during 50&60, SPB rules from 70-2000, but MD are not using SPB no more, although SPB is ageing his voice is getting divner & divner every day, which is amazing. but Dr.KJY voice is deteriorating rapidly, HH signs with his nose (very good nasalist), his high pitches are often sung with false voices & a feminine one, he can not modulate, he can not express emotions( only the true legend like Dr.SPB is capable of this, no one in IFM is capabale of this variety, including Rafi)
  
  Unni Krishnan is goob, but his voice is too soft for cinema songs, he suits classical better, of course that's his profession!.
  
  SPB's bass is excellent, what are your views about what I have said?
  
  Could you please post them for me, sir?
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Aug 16 09:16:07 EDT 2001
  
  IMF, definetely there is a lot of change in Rafi's voice for songs such as in Hum kisi se kum naheen when compared to in 50-60's.Its like Lata singing now which is definetely not better. you dont see any wrong in rendering song but her voice changed. Similarly Rafi. He was still good at that time but not with same voice. KK sounded better for Dev Anand too. And you got to remember it was Mukesh for Raj kapoor, though Rafi was around still it was mukesh.
  
  

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