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Why IR is against VM ..?

Topic started by Ramani (@ gatekeeper.wipsys.soft.net) on Mon Sep 28 08:43:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This posting covers two topics ;-)
In y'day's function at Chennai for Kalaignar,
IR sung(read) a self composed song 'thanE thanE
thanthaanE.. thannaith thamizukku thanthaanE''
Before reading some verses, he passed on some sharp
remarks indirectly against VM ..
Why this sudden anti-VM outbust..? and that too in a
public function..? (his brother GAmaran has been doing
this through magazines for quite some time)

VM was seen sitting in some 3rd row..with a deserted look
(usually he looks cheerful in Kalaignar functions)

God knows why such a great combo is still at loggerheads..
Hopefully B.raja or KB bring them together again.
9 out of 10 dances in that program were of ARR's..
(compered by GA and Oorvasi).. It must have been
shocking for IR to see that ARR's songs only are used
for all dances nowadays in any stage. Could be the reason
why Rajini chose ARR for Padaiyappa.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ nova3.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Sep 29 12:17:21 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry - I'm going to digress a bit.
  
  Ramakrishna: I don't agree that ARR did not realise the repetition because he does "cut and paste". IMO, even Raja has repeated n^2 times and I would be surprised if he realised it(even if he did, he would dismiss it off saying repetition is inherent in music). These things take place unconsciously.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Sep 29 13:54:15 EDT 1998
  
  aruLarasan,
  I'm well aware of the pazhamozhi too. In the song it is sung as if the brother is flirting with his sister-in-law. In fact the song was first written as,
  "Madhuni Madhuni machaan illaya ippo veettula
  Kozhunthaa Kozhunthaa ethukku kaetkira edhum vaenumaa
  Hey, raathirikki thunaiyaaga varalaamaa?"
  
  Later, either the producer or the director felt it was too incestuous that they put in Mayilae instead of Madhuni and Kumaraa instead of Kozhunthaa.
  
  Maybe, bad lyrics are also subjective because I thought "Enna Paattu Paada" just plain sucked, but you found it cute. I have found some of the racy "Churaangani" songs to be cute, whereas others may find them disgusting. It all depends on our perspective.
  
  But the day everybody's willing to forgive Thamizh-English lyrics and "Loveunna Loveuu Mannennai Stoveuu", the day that wayside oddities become the staple of TFM then we should all do penance for prostituting our mother tongue.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Sep 29 18:23:05 EDT 1998
  
  i think the argument that just bcos IR's films had bad lyrics, he was the one who okayed it. i do not think the MD is that free to command the lyricist. IR would definitely like to put better lyrics in his songs. but he may not be able to enforce his idea. so, the responsibility for kevalamaana songs should go to the lyricist and not the MD. hence, i think IR is perfectly justified in his comments. the depth of songs in earlier days are surely missing now, and VM should not shy away from criticism. he has changed the art of writing songs to an algorithm with a catch word in each line(azhagu, athisayam,, take it easy etc). but i sympathize with VM too, for his nonsense songs have become hits while his gems like "narumugaiye" have flopped.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Sep 29 18:50:37 EDT 1998
  
  i do not think the MD is that free to command the lyricist.
  Not true. IR could make or break careers of song writers and singers if he wanted to. He called the shots of all the movies he was involved in, especially in the 80s. Even for established veterans like Director Sridhar (for Thandhuvittaen Ennai) IR just played about 8 tunes and the director and producer had to select the ones they wanted from that.(source: my friend Kumaran whose father was Chithramahal Krishnamurthy who owned a studio and was extensively involved in distribution and other channels in the movie industry).
  Na. Kaamaraasan and Mu. Mehtha have given interviews about how IR told them to change lyrics . In the former's case, that was the reason he stopped writing for IR. When this is the kind of power IR enjoyed, I don't accept that IR wasn't free to command the lyricist.
  
  IR would definitely like to put better lyrics in his songs
  There is no proof of this either given the songs I have quoted in my original posting.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ marimuth-nt.qualcomm.com) on: Tue Sep 29 20:56:44 EDT 1998
  
  Lyrics have generally degraded irrespective of the MD's . IR's songs are no exception. But then
  if Oorvasi pharmacy becomes a hit , is'nt it like
  encouraging the guy who writes it..So no point blaming the Lyrics writer..
  
  But then oflate atleast a couple of songs in every IR movie is good in lyrics especially his amma senti songs use pure thamil words that make sense..( Kathapola thonum in VT , Vaanathil irunthu from Poothottam etc..)
  
  Will write more on the differences between IR and non-IR songs lyrics soon
  
  bye
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ ntws218.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Sep 29 22:04:48 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya: If a lyricist were good enough, he/she would write good lyrics irrespective of IR's promptings. Hence, you cannot say IR okayed bad lyrics and so its partly his fault - he had no choice; if the lyricist were a Kannadasan, he could say this is good or that isn't so good. But te bottomline is necessary, a good lyricist.
  
  Your argument can only hold under this condition: There were good lyricists with whom IR worked, but he did not extract full work out of them.
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Tue Sep 29 23:00:18 EDT 1998
  
  IMHO:
  ----
  
  Everybody forgot the role of film director's in the declining quality of lyrics. For example, veteran Poet like Vaali writes c***y songs like
  "samanjadheppadi" becos director's specifically ask for it. In those situations MD's don't have much choice. vaali said "he writes for money and directors are asking for it". It is similar lines to what IR said "He is doing music for money".
  
  There is no excuse for IR's c***y songs since he has influence. I think now a days, most of IR's songs have good lyrics from Palani Bharathi and aRivumadhi. Gangai amaran has written many junk songs which contributed to IR's glory ;).
  IR himself penned lyrics like "nila adhu vAnathu mElE".
  
  VM was a talented poet. Now he is a jerk. That is
  IMO. narumugiyE is nothing but CAP(cut & Paste) from some of the "puRaNanooRu" poems. He calls that an achievement. Actually it is a felony,(copyright violation). He is adamant enough to say,
  "idhu nAl varaiyil, tamizh enakku chORu pOttadhu
  ini adhaRku nAn chORu pOduvEn"
  He calls "Take it policy" song as an philosophical advice song. Total (c)rap.
  
  The main reason for decline in the quality of TFM lyrics is lack of good lyricists. The next reason is the mean & silly FDs and third reason is non-commital role of MDs. :(
  
  ellAm kalikAlam swamy! adhu nAngAvadhu kAranam.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ karthi4.globalcenter.net) on: Tue Sep 29 23:01:02 EDT 1998
  
  My point is only this: if IR wants to point fingers at the new wave regarding subpar lyrics then he needs to smell his own dirty laundary. That he let a song like "Loveunna Loveuu Mannennai Stoveuu" pass, whose pallavi itself reeks of non-imagination,proves that IR can't blame other songs for bad lyrics. I'm not saying he should spoon feed and copyedit each lyricist, but something as annoyingly in bad taste as the mentioned song should not have been approved by IR, especially if he was in the habit of prompting starting lines to songs and had enough smarts to correct Thamizh poets like Mehtha then the he had no choice excuse is not good enough.
  Besides, no one told him to stick to a bad lyricist. If the man had as much pride in his songs as he says he does, then he could have been pickier with his lyricists. There is no shortage of Thamizh poets even in Kodambakkam.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Sep 30 00:19:48 EDT 1998
  
  udaya: did the degradation of lyrics in TFM start majorly due to some bad songs of IR like the love stove song?? i don't think so. the level of lyrics in TFM today is not due to "IR allowing some songs to pass through". it is purely due to the new breed of "song writers" , including our diamandu, an old wine in a new bottle. This is similar to the argument which went on about copying. IR also did some but the attention towards copying and the increased scale of copying came only with our xerox deva & co. so, when u are alluding that IR could have picked up good lyricists, he was the one who picked up VM too. by the sheer volume of IR's work, the percentage of songs with bad lyrics is very low compared to the percentage of ARR or deva. no need to talk about sirpi, VS and others.
  mannAru: i am sorry to have offended u by saying "narumugaiye" is a good song. i personally prefer to see a song from puranaanuru than the pepsi, coca-cola kind of lyrics. BTW, VM acknowledged puranaanuru and that was what it was intended to be.
  
  
• From: IR fan (@ spider-we043.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Sep 30 00:36:16 EDT 1998
  
  With more than 4000 songs, IR has given many a career to many a poet. Can't these fellows be humble and listen to what this great man says? Na Kaamarasan and others must have realised that IR can expose their various levels of incompetency, so they stopped composing!! Has IR ever stopped composing for any song situation. In fact, he has even gone a light year in coming up new situations for those blank producers and directors!
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqs-067.compuserve.net) on: Wed Sep 30 02:47:59 EDT 1998
  
  The main point here is what did IR do on his part to encourage lyricists ? Was he accomodative , in the sense was he willing to compose tunes for pre-written lyrics ? The answer is NO. Some of the poets withdrew because of this attitude. Some allegations were that the meters IR dished out to the lyrics were not lengthy enough, that is not meaty enough for them to fit a 'karuthu' into which I think is right. You had songs like 'Chittu kuruvi vetka paduthu' which had meters like those of nursery rhymes we had learnt in schools. VM somehow managed to squeeze in some words. I am certainly not a fan of VM's attitude these days, but IR's statements definitely reveal some pent up grouse against VM and in the given situation absolutely uncalled for.
  
  
• From: TMM (@ panorama2.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Sep 30 06:06:56 EDT 1998
  
  With more than 4000 songs, IR has given many a career to many a poet. Can't these fellows
  be humble and listen to what this great man says?
  
  IR itself got his carrier through some one. Otherwise he could not have achieved what he is today.
  
  If IR is a perfect man why most of the people had problem from SPB, Bharathiraja, KB, Manirathnam,
  VM, even his brother Gangai Amaran?
  
  If he says he is perfect in choosing the good lyricst, why he uses his Bhavatharini for most of his songs. Whether she is the best female play back singer?.
  
  There is no need for IR to make such a comment in the function of M.K. It is totally an unwarented statement.
  
  In total I like the saying:
  
  I am nobody. But nobody is perfect.
  
  TMM
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-58.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Sep 30 08:32:23 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  A serious thought after making fun of VM in my earlier posing. Who introduced the bad lyric culture into tamil music. Can anyone comeup with an answer.
  Major donor will be our man IR - teamed up with many so called kavingers. Main reason VM gives for his detachment from IR is that IR asks him to write junk lyrics, and IR is not flexible to make changes in the score for good lyric. (BTW which MSV and ARR does.)
  
  I am sure IR does not have the right to say about bad lyrics.He has let go many such "kevalamana" lyrics in the past,
  Pot cannot call kettle black!.
  (No racism intended, just a simili)
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  

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