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Analysis of Maestro Ilayaraaja's works

Topic started by Music fan (@ 208.154.130.13) on Tue Oct 10 14:34:19 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Dear fans of music

Of late, there have been many threads in this forum discussing about IR and his music in general. I don't deny that. But many have been just discussing his new albums, his new projects or in general very superficial which does not delve much into the analysis of his compositions. Maestro Ilayaraaja is a peerless composer and he is one of the very few to compose around 4000+ songs and compose music for around 800 movies. He writes music and his creations show his ingenuity. In this topic, I request the musically learned people to analyze some of his great works.

As a starter, please analyze the song "thendral vandhu theendum bodhu" from Avatharam. Please let us know the intricacies the Maestro has used to create this number. Since I am a lay man in music, I do not have much to say about this song, except that the song is in the lines of western classical music. The song is harmonious and great to listen to.

Needless to say, I believe this topic is never a waste of time. Not many have the opportunity/skill to analyze a great composer's music. So, on behalf of music lovers and fans I request people to participate here and analyze many of the gems given by Maestro.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kishmu (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Oct 12 13:15:26 EDT 2000
  
  I like the sound of layman...
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 12 13:18:54 EDT 2000
  
  kishmu, whats your point ?
  sathiyama puriyala.
  parlimentLa MP pesaramathri irku :)
  
  
• From: again.......to save time.. (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 12 13:22:31 EDT 2000
  
  Some of the interesting points I noted while hearing,
  I have played this song long long time ago. I might be not 100% correct but I am sure I am almost close.
  The song is set to sindhu bhiravi, We use to play in Eminor because naturally Eminor suites sindhu bhairavi perfectly. The tape I had also had this song in EM.
  Unless we see the actual notations is hard to tell the actual scale composed.
  
  Opening:
  The score starts of with a bell tone then a flute solo lead. Takes us directly to “the mood of the song. This is followed by a flute score, this has an interesting counterpoint using a harp sound. The counter point is more like playing arpeggios.
  
  The harp plays the next 2 notes of the lead flute note This opening score has 3 part arrangement, Flute for lead - harp playing the counter and a bass.
  (1 2 3 )Flute play the 1st note --- 2 and 3 will be played by Harp and flute. Bass guitar harmonies with the flute lead on the bar.
  
  
  Bass:
  Pallavi Bass part structure is very interesting. More than the percussion this actually adds lot of weight to the song. The bass part is split into 2. First part is build with 4 notes then followed by 6 same notes (I need to check this with my keyboard, instead of a ping pong table I have been asking for a piano in our recreation room for a long time now my office is yet to permit me to get one. So wait till I get home tonight)
  
  This is pattern played through out the Pallavi based on the chord progression.
  Mostly it would be L5th |7th |root | (Pa NE SA SA | SA SA SA SA SA SA) combinations based on the chord. I might be not 100% correct here.
  If you note this pattern changes a little to bridge the song back to pallavi. Here just the first top note is played based on the chords to support the tune.
  
  In the saranam the bass is completely different, rather than staccatos, it has more swing. The 3 noted structure moves with the tune rather than percussion. The bass is filled with bongos at proper intervals. Good drum programming.
  
  Counter points:
  First bgm has good chunk of counter points using guitars. Saranam Lines : “Kane en kanpata kayam”, You can hear a counter point played by the string section. Strings counter the song till the end of the saranam. Male voice counters with the female vocals in harmony in the second bgm.
  
  The famous “Raja Style” :
  A score or a pattern is played by one single instrument (guitar here) and over this different scores come one after another. , You can hear this in many places in the song. Second bgm is good example.
  
  Some hidden score that areoften missed:
  In the first bgm there is chord whamping following the guitar lead (flute like sounding patch) , This is very important without lead will sound really empty.
  
  Cello/double piece at the 1st bgm end, since it is played along with other strings, it adds lot of weight, this is often missed by normal ears.
  
  Chord punching using DX7 bells is followed through out the song. , all the chords are on the
  bar.
  Male voice over the flute in the second bgm.
  
  I think I will post more if I start playing it.
  
  
• From: kishmu (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Oct 12 13:31:47 EDT 2000
  
  fan or srikanth, my point is to explain music in simple terms. dont complicate it by using too many techies that only instrument players know. And I dont like to hear the self-proclaimed word "expert". Adha thaan MP baashyathila sonnen :)
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 12 13:43:04 EDT 2000
  
  kishmu,
  I dont see a need for it here...
  fyi: no one is self-proclaimed. Everyone knows what they are reading, they are being humble thats all.
  btw:if I dont like to hear something I close my ears, I dont try closing others mouth.
  :) Sorry guys, I did not like kismu's "Preachings".
  
  
  
  
  
• From: kishmu (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Oct 12 14:01:15 EDT 2000
  
  Fan, forget it - You got me all wrong. Anyways this discussion is taking a lot of my time. I shall leave. Will keep in touch with more MIDIs. I started my first composition...will get back to those I know with that. Bye...
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Thu Oct 12 14:57:01 EDT 2000
  
  
  Valaiosai - 2nd interlude - As Lata sings her last "lalaa-lalaa-la la " twice, which is ascending, SPB is singing a counterpoint which is descending.
  
  ( I think this was mentioned by rjay as a trademark use by raaja - in Aedho Moham -Pallavi - call-response is ascending-descending ..though this is not the same as a counterpoint, i guess..)
  
  Another place which comes to mind - In Poongaatru Pudhidhaanadhu (Moondraam Pirai) at the end of 1st interlude...the lead guitar ascends... while the bass descends.
  
  So similarity between valaiosai bit and the poongaatru bit is - when the high freq section is ascending, (lata in case 1 and lead guitar in case2), the low freq counterpoint section descends (spb in case 1 and bass guitar in case 2)... am I right?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Thu Oct 12 14:58:56 EDT 2000
  
  Ennappa, appappo oru misunderstanding-la thread
  thonga aarambichududhu!
  
  I know personally that fan and kishmu hold each
  other in high regard. Both forget that this chat
  communication can easily be mistaken as personal
  attack. Fan, and Kishmu, please continue the
  contributions.
  
  While I agree to Kishmu's point that we need to
  avoid musical jargon, the thread itself is analysis thread, so concepts have to be called by their names. There are only two options: (i) whoever brings up words should create simple definitions (like fan did for bar, MFan did for
  counterpoint) (ii) readers can also dig through
  the net and create a musical glossary of whatever
  the writers have not explained. There is nothing
  wrong.
  After all the purpose of most readers of this thread is to understand how music is put together
  and they are willing to learn new terms and concepts and ways of listening.
  
  Once I told my professor, he has to come down
  to our level and teach so that we can understand. He said, if the subject is really complex, we have
  to rise to its level and cant expect it to be
  simplified! Well, these are two extremes and attempt must be made at both ends! Only advantage is that there are no exams! (well, unless you want it ;)
  
  
  Kiru, I will try to spend sometime, clean up the
  write up, add to it and upload on the page as suggested by you.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 12 15:09:35 EDT 2000
  
  Hari. good point,
  Counter points often tend to move opposite to the melodies.If the melody goes up, the counter come down.
  (guys, i know kishmu from my collage days, so dont bother about the tone in our debates (better word than sandai:)
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Thu Oct 12 15:29:59 EDT 2000
  
  fan
  good start on "valaiyosai" analysis.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Oct 12 15:59:35 EDT 2000
  
  Re: technical terms.
  Yes, the reader has to do some homework as well. But I guess we should strive to convey the idea and concepts more than actually what is being played/done. rjay..did a pretty good job in splitting the song into parts and going by one by one..(I will read fans explanation soon. I didnt know what song it was for ..so much for my musical knowledge :-) ).
  Similarly When I tried to summarize in the ARR thread..I was also trying to improve my communication skills. So while writing in these threads if we can collect our thoughts, organise it and then write it, it will be a good exercise.
  
  Likewise, if we want to convey something lets do it with a positive tone - like a suggestion, without assuming why another person said so.If at all we should be giving the other person the benefit of doubt.
  
  Believe me these kind of communication and inter-personal skills will help us in our career/workplace. So not only we would have had fun talking about music but we would have done some personality development exercise as well.
  
  
• From: SL (@ 208.49.174.73) on: Thu Oct 12 16:03:38 EDT 2000
  
  fan, Hari...
  I thought that Lata and SPB hummed the same tune in the II interlude in seconds. I do not think it was a counterpoint, just recollecting from memory.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.102) on: Thu Oct 12 18:25:21 EDT 2000
  
  Fan/Kishmu/Rrjay and others,
  
  I think it might not be a bad idea to ask bb or someone to put up a mini glossary for defining the terms like bars, counterpoint, arpeggio, meter, cello, double bass etc. and put it right on top of this mpage or somewhere conveniently so that whenever someone has a doubt he or she can look at that and clarify it immediately.
  
  Rjay,
  How should we procedd with the list? 1000 seems to be too much. If u want we or I can make a list of 20-25 songs in each cataegory if u can list the categories first. i.e. WC-based songs, carnatic, folk etc.
  
  Fan,
  interesting description of Valyosdai, thanx.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.102) on: Thu Oct 12 18:30:24 EDT 2000
  
  Rjay,
  one more suggestion. like u had MIDI examples for musical tones earlier in your site when u were wrtiting the composing secrets thread, is it possible for u to have a short description for each of these commnonly used instruments like cello, double bass and also for styles like arpeggio, reggae, counterpoint etc. 15-20 second samples would do followed by a very brief explanation. that way it would be really great appreciating what the Likes of Fan and others are describing about a particular song.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Thu Oct 12 18:51:23 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  
  That is a nice idea. Actually, I am working on it.
  
  Meanwhile, I have created a basic document so that readers dont have to dig through the old responses. They can see all of it on one page with audio.
  
  Friends, please have a look.
  
  Thanks
  RJAY
  
  

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