Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Music directors !!

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Sun May 13 19:02:00 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hey guys

I want to know what you think about Laxmikant Pyarelal and R.D. Burman. How do you like their music and their style and how would you compare them to Illyaraja and A.R. Rahman.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: LV (@ 203.199.130.48) on: Thu Jun 7 23:01:57 EDT 2001
  
  dearest swamiji:
  
  I do NOT have to convince u of what I have heard and what I have not. So leave this point.yes, today, TFM is far better than todays HFM , not better than yesterday's HFM at all. Another thing: I see people here wanting to prove that Carnatic is SO INFINITELY more advanced than Hindustani. I disagree with Kiru's "eloquent" article.
  
  "In the past, Hindustani music also had complex gamaka schemes, but the acceptance of the Harmonium has caused their virtual disappearance and only a few of the gamakas remain in use. The result is that the current form of Hindustani music has lost some of its traditional character - perhaps forever"
  
  In the North (and in Pak), the sarangi is widely used as an accompanying instrument. Have u heard Appa Jalgaonkars harmonium??? That proves the wrongness of this statement. In any case, the haromonium in most concerts I have heard is often a background entity. The gamakas emerge from the singers throat. And is the harmonium the only instrument - the violin,flute,sarangi,surbahaar,sitar,rudraveena,sarod,mohan veena AND so many more.
  
  Another thing - if u have ever experienced the richness of the gamakas sung by Kishori Amonkar and Rajan Sajan Mishra and Pandit Jasraj and Kumar Gandharva and Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Malini Rajurkar and so many other singers and instrumentatlists, u would not have made the statement about 'lack of advanced use of gamakas' in Hindustani. This statement about Hindustani is rather indiscrete.
  
  yet another thing: Yes VM Bhatts guitar is different from Prasanna's . I dont know why i tried to point out the analogy. However - just yesterday I saw a programme on DD 1 (subah savere) in which they had invited a musician to play the guitar (exactly like Prasanna's). He said that his grandfather had started playing Hindustani classical guitar as early as the 50s. His father has even been awarded the PadmaBhushan a few years ago. I'll hunt out his name and tell you.
  
  
  Yeah I agree that LP should NOT be compared to IR. But u said sth. like 'Lalloo at the top and LP at the top are both bad things to happen". Well thats not ON. LP were great in the 60s 70s and even early 80s. Though not as good as IR, they are great music directors.
  
  So when u say that IR > 100000 * (all old MDs from the North + ARR) thats just ridiculous. And it shows a clear bias. IR is great - yes I am there with u - and so are many others. Saying that Shankar Jaikishan sucked is STUPID and FOOLSIH!!
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Fri Jun 8 00:40:07 EDT 2001
  
  LV,
  
  Hindusthani (even vocal) uses swaras as it is, in their places. Singing patterns fast is not gamakam. In HFM if they wanted to have comedy at the expense of South Indians, they would include songs with gamakams. "ek chathuranaar" and "vaango" are examples. (But there is more of the same gamakams in seriously romantic songs in HFM today.)
  
  Unlike yesteryears, there is more appreciation of each other's music by the modern Hindustani and Carnatic musicians, and there is much borrowal. Especially by the Hindusthani musicians. Parveen Sulthana is supposed to have trained under Semmangudi particularly to learn kalpana swaram and brikka singing. When Rajam or MSG play Hindusthani it definitely sounds much richer than Jog.
  
  There is a lady called S.Durga in Chennai that does Voice culture workshops. She is basically a Carnatic musician, but later trained under Shobha Gurtu. She has a lot of big names in Carnatic music attending the workshop. And she exclusively teaches the Hindustani-style Palte riyaz for Voice training.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 152.163.197.49) on: Fri Jun 8 09:33:40 EDT 2001
  
  'Lalloo at the top and LP at the top are both bad things to happen".
  did swamiji say that-that was quite funny.how did i miss that?
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.82.168) on: Fri Jun 8 10:35:51 EDT 2001
  
  sugrutha,
  
  No thats not true. Well I have experienced real fast and exquiste gamakas - yes their style is differnt from the Carnatic performers. In the khayal and even more in the form called the 'tappa'. Thats sung by Mailini Rajurkar and Rajan Sajan Mishra.
  
  
  (ignore what follows if u feel its not applicable to u)
  Well -why are u comparing Hindustani to Carnatic at all?? And whats the bottomline of what u want to say. If it is that Carnatic music is rich and fecund - I am with you. But I think u want to say something like 'it is deeper and more scientific than Hindustani' - then I am not with u. That thing is rather indiscrete. We are JUST NOT qualified to compare 2 great institutions liek these. Why - even Kishori Amonkar and Balamurli Krishna dont do that.
  
  
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Jun 8 11:41:42 EDT 2001
  
  Rhythm cycles are much more complicated in carnatic music than in Hindustani. Percussion player has to do lot of work when playing with a carnatic artist. He is allowed to match the lead vocalist in creativity, while playing hindustani one does not have such freedom. I perfer playing along with for carnatic musicians.
  -- Zaheer hussain.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Jun 8 11:47:57 EDT 2001
  
  Lv, I just read your postings, some what interesting. you are right on S&J has done great work in the past. Basically my feeling is many have not heard much music from other mds, they simply tell what they have heard so far is the best, which is mostly IR's work.
  Like Ir, Other musicians have done some great work, which I have been telling here for the past 4 years now , you know what happens when you make such statements :)
  
  
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 152.163.204.187) on: Fri Jun 8 13:53:20 EDT 2001
  
  comment,
  I have heard other md's.in fact enough of them to last a life time.that only confirms that IR is the best.why should listening to other md's change our opinion?
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Jun 8 13:59:20 EDT 2001
  
  yaaro.
  Imho: Other mds have done good work in various aspects of music, but not been advt., at times they have done better work than IR.
  
  If you had really heard and analyzed everyones music you will know what i mean.
  "confirming ir is greatest", -- might be for you, not for me. You can tell your taste is superior to me , so be it.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Fri Jun 8 15:26:12 EDT 2001
  
  Lokesh! Lokesh! Lokesh!
  
  The "P.Sriram" who wrote that article is Sriram Parasuram, a top notch violinist (carnatic and Hindustani) and a Concert Hindustani vocalist. In addition he is a graduate of IIT and IIM, so I am not discounting his quantitative skills. And you still feel Appaji can play thOdi (as in HanumathOdi NOT miya-ki-todi) on his pEti. ummmmmm...thaan pidichcha muyalukku mooNu kaal.:-)
  
  Comment: sandhula sindhaa? I thought you came up with a list of 10 new things contributed by IR to film music. Until you can do the same for SJ, don't try to say that they have a valid claim for the top spot. Unless of course, your claim of 10 new things by IR was merely a sensation stunt NOT backed up by content:-)
  
  
• From: bm (@ 64.12.102.43) on: Fri Jun 8 15:39:43 EDT 2001
  
  A sidelight..Sriram Parasuram is the "Sriram" in Anuradha Sriram ..
  
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Jun 8 16:59:38 EDT 2001
  
  rajag, oh, i did not send you the list of
  30 new things by msv,
  20 new things kvm,
  10 new thigns by v.kumar,
  i will do it right away :)
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 152.163.197.64) on: Fri Jun 8 18:41:13 EDT 2001
  
  You can tell your taste is superior to me , so be it.
  comment,
  did i say that?
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.80.181) on: Sat Jun 9 00:25:47 EDT 2001
  
  mr comment:
  
  Send that list to me please
  
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Sat Jun 9 01:14:43 EDT 2001
  
  Harmonium best serves its purpose as a learning aid. It helps to correct swarasthanams. That is all. Carnatic music can never be played on this instrument. Imagine Thodi or Reethi gowlai on the harmonium !! I just bought a CD of Balamurali and Bhimsen Joshi performing live together. MB matches all the patterns of BJ and some more. It is in these kind of performances that one realises how much more richer Carnatic music is. Hindusthani music is reduced to almost 'oththu ootharathu' in these jugalbandhis. Not to say that I do not enjoy Hindusthani music. But it is certainly limited when compared with Carnatic music. Afterall Hindusthani music was created to accompany the wining and dining times. So there is langour and luxury, but lacks a certain spark and punch. Except, of course, in cases where the musicians are trained (or at least extensively exposed) in the Carnatic genre also.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Sat Jun 9 10:35:11 EDT 2001
  
  Dear LV:
  How do you come up with so much details.? I have always enjoyed your postings. What ever you say, right or wrong, you back it with enough stuff.
  
  Good keep it up. My knowledge on CM and HM are not enough for a beautiful debate like this. I am just a spectator here.
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.82.208) on: Sun Jun 10 00:36:20 EDT 2001
  
  dear sugrutha:
  
  PLEASE READ EVERY WORD OF WHAT FOLLOWS CAREFULLY.
  
  Well, do you take me for an ignoramus or something. If u do, please go ahead. I do not have to convince u about anyhting.
  
  Howvere please do consider that merley YOUR saying that Hon. Dr Balamuralikrishna's performance was 999999999999999999999999999999 times better than Pandit Bhimsen Joshi's in all their jugalbandhis, does not make it so AT ALL. I have myself heard the following:
  1)Jugalbandhis between Balamurali Krishna and Bhimsen Joshi.
  2)betn. Balamurali Krishna and Kishori Amonkar
  3)between tabla and mridangam maestros
  4)between Carnatic and Hindustani flautists (not the most famous ones - twas a private concert, much less known.)
  
  Yeah - I have heard all these, and in all these the Hindustani maestros have matched the Carnatci maestros and vice versa. This kind of stray comparison of yours was rather stupid. In fact, in the Kishori-BM concert, BM literally saluted Kishori.
  
  Yeah and about Carnatic training that u pompously suggest for Hindustani maestros, please I would love to know whether the foll. maestros have had ANY Carnatic training, and whether their singing is any less 'RICH' a su call it, than our immortal Carnatic maestros
  
  1)Kishori Amonkar
  2)Mogubai Kurdikar (her mother)
  3)Bhimsen Joshi
  4)Pandit Jasraj
  5)Dinanath Mangeshkar
  6)Veena Sahastrabuddhe
  7)malini Rajurkar
  8)Girija Devi
  9)Begum Akhtar
  10)Ustaad Aamir Khan
  11)Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
  12)Kumaar Gandharva
  13)Rajan and Sajan Mishra
  14)Nazakat and Salamat Ali
  15)Mallikarjun Mansoor
  16)Prabha Atre
  
  and many more.
  
  Yeah, u may waste all ur time in this silly comparsion (since u maybe OVER AND ABOVE all the maestros mentioned here). I wont. This shall be MY LAST message to u regarding this topic. U may continue to think what u may. I cannot win over all the corrupted minds here. Bye!!!! But remember that Dr Balamurali Krishna (&Kishori also) has often said that both the styles of classical Indian music are so vast and so rich,diverse,spiritual and scientific, that comparing them is NONSENSE. No person can achieve everyhting in any one style of Indian CM is just one life. So such a comparison holds no ground.
  
  
  
  Dear RajaG:
  
  Do u think that the harmonium is the ONLY accompanying instrument for HCM. What about the Sarangi. Thats used everywhere in Pak and Delhi,Bengal, though not very often in Maharshtra.
  Please listen to a few tapes of Ustaad Sultan Khan and Ram Narayan, before starting the comparison. And what about the gamakas and taans from the THROAT of the singers, and from the sitar,veena,surbahaar,sarod string, and from many other instruments.
  
  Dear Swamiji:
  Ya, u had scolded me for starting a comparison between HCM and CCm (which I CANNOT accept - i started no such things. Read the entire thread carefully.) And now in ur usual style, kindly 'stoop low enough' to scold Sugrutha who is starting an obvious comparison. Lets see the 'FAIRNESS' part in you.
  
  
  LV
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Sun Jun 10 02:39:18 EDT 2001
  
  hi
  instead of comparing these, why don't you list some of the famous songs based on hindustani music in tfm, for the ignorant people lke me?
  
  likeweise, are there any carnatic based songs in hfm?
  
  anbudan
  mahabs
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments