Let Us Compare The Songs & BGM in Refugee / Bharathi...

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Let Us Compare The Songs & BGM in Refugee / Bharathi... Let Us Compare The Songs & BGM in Refugee / Bharathi...

Topic started by Subbu (@ 192.39.1.92) on Wed Mar 28 08:45:53 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am really disappointed that Best MD award is not given to IR for Bharathi. More than that 'Anu Malik's' name worries me. My general perception of Anu Malik makes me wonder whether he would have composed better than Bharathi's songs/BGM in Refugee.

While I can talk in detail about Bharathi songs/BGM, I should accept that I haven't listened to 'Refugee' songs or BGM.

So if there is someone who has listened to both, please enlighten us with your views on the music content ... (let us forget the personalities please). For the benefit of IR fans, pls let us know if we could listen to 'Refugee' songs somewhere in the net.

(I also have one more doubt whether Anu Malik also did the BGM for Refugee... This is because, if I am not wrong, last year whoever beat IR's HeyRam, had only composed the songs for the movie (again a Hindi movie) and not the BGM part.)

Thanks in advance...

Responses:

From: Philosopher (@ 12.29.192.65) on: Wed Mar 28 10:08:00 EST 2001

I agree. I would even say people like Anu Malik, Deva should never be even considered for an award since they have propven repeatedly that 90% of their composition is through copying or what you'd call in a sugar coated way "heavily inspired by other's music compositions"
From: Subbu (@ 192.39.1.92) on: Wed Mar 28 10:46:14 EST 2001

Thanks for your comment Philosopher.

I am a HCIRF. But I would prefer to discuss the actual music content of both Refugee / Bharathi rather than the general qualities of the MD's. Because, IMHO, there are many other threads to discuss the personal qualities of the MD's.

Still waiting for someone to give inputs on the Refugee songs/BGM.

HFM listeners like L.Vaidhyanathan, Common Friend could help us here.
From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 28 11:23:06 EST 2001

Subbu,

It is hard to make a one-to-one comparison of any two movies. This is going to be even harder if they are from different languages. There are salient feauters and super scenes in every movie. While comparing, what one must look for is, how best the MD attempts to express feelings of stage actors, how crucial is the background score for the scenes, how best MD renders a music reflecting the time factor etc..etc. Very many times, I know, IR's music takes you to the depth and tempt spectator's feelings. Talking about bharathi, we get a collective idea on music by reading different articles and seeing the movie..
One can do a similar analysis on Refugee... IR on bharathi, just nobody could have matched him....Bharathi was a man of expressions. His feelings could at best put in the form of poems, which are still no match to his internal engenders. IR gives a punch there. IR decorates a man called sAyaji shinde, to feel us like "Mahakavi". No over doing..It was a more a documentary..well..that is a totally different issue but..My personal opinion is that without IR's stamping, he would have been only
a telescopic,imaginary "Bharathi".. Thanks to other guys who put effort in showing us the typical "Mahakavi"
From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Mar 28 12:05:54 EST 2001

flifo:
Good. But, I heard and read very good reviews of Refugee. I have listened to only one song from that movie and that song also, I think got the best lyricist award. HF people say that by far R is AMs best. So, I think, you should credict some one who goes out of the way to compose some thing like R. IR can do one more bharathi, but AM, I think, cannot do any more R like stuff. So, its better you give him an award and finish it off. Poor child paavam.
From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 28 12:18:45 EST 2001

CF;

you have a point..
From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Mar 28 12:27:31 EST 2001

Are we trying to compare IR's work and Anu Malik's work?
Are we serious?!!!
From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 28 12:36:26 EST 2001

Hey Trend;

that "refugee" was given a National award for music, can we derive indirectly this better than "bharathi". is there any basis?
From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Mar 28 12:44:02 EST 2001

Fliflo,

Suddenly I don't understand why we are giving so much importance to National Awards.Moreover,most of TFM fans believe Bharathi is much better though Refugee is more popular on the National Scale.What is the basis for comparison?
From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Mar 28 12:44:39 EST 2001

Friends:

We have to accept the fact. It has gone into the history books. Awards are finalised.

The jury, doesn't look into one's career or credentials. It takes into account a perticular film and based on its merits they award them.

The jury comprises of people from different parts. We can't keep complaining and just got to accept it. I am also disappointed to some extend but feel happy that TN had bagged more.

I can understand ARR/IR comparison, but IR fans don't get too unarchivasappattufied and start comparing IR/AM.
Leave it here itself.

Moral of the story is, we here fight on ARR/IR comparison and try to prove our point with some silly arguments, but finally some third person with out any credentials of his own takes away the award and we don't have anything but to stare at him.

Kathai karu epdi.
From: Subbu (@ 62.253.64.4) on: Wed Mar 28 13:39:10 EST 2001

CF: I liked your last para.

My intention was not to compare IR and AM (as explained in the thread introduction).

I could not control my anxiety to know more about this Refugee music which seems to have impressed the N.Award jury more than Bharathi.

That too when they were able to pick out 'Mayil Pola' for a singer's award... what made them to think about Refugee when it came to MD's award ?
From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 28 14:04:01 EST 2001

"We have to accept the fact. It has gone into the history books"

Well. don't say that. remember thiruvilayadal vasanam ("nakkeerar"). If these kind of reputed (so called) awards are not being given to something which has credentials, then there is no appreciation for the kind of effort MDs put in. There is no appreciation for people who follow and respect it. So if the Jury was blind in looking at the facts (you know it was as proved by members) why do they nominate such kind of juries. Well, whether this is going to change the future or not, let's not bother about it. But CF, the way you talk you don't seem to have great appreciations for bharathi music. That's ok...totally your personal feeling. My aim, atleast here, is not to make comparison between IR and others. But accept that something good has been over seen..something excellent has been forgotten and something qualifiable has been ignored..This is shame on the Jury (whomever it was). In your words if I say, this is going to go in history books..Shame on national awards...It depreciates the already exisiting poor reputation of these awards..What is so big if 4 awards have been given..The quality one is totally ignored..As Trend mentioned..shame on Jury...works like an agent for undescribed forces...

It is like a 95% mark student not getting engg. college admission and 70% student winning a medical seat....Don't join in the wave what can we do....expressing my anguish & disappointment!
From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Wed Mar 28 14:46:35 EST 2001

Trend, Fliflo, CF,
I think becos of the Oscar fever National awards also are being hyped so much :-)))....Vittu thalla vendiyathu thaan. I am damn sure the jury consist of bunch of losers..
From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Wed Mar 28 14:49:33 EST 2001

CF,
As Fliflo said you don't seem to be impressed by Bharathi music, or in general IR's music :-)).

Fliflo,
It is like a 95% mark student not getting engg. college admission and 70% student winning a medical seat....Don't join in the
wave what can we do....expressing my anguish & disappointment!
Nethi Adi
From: Neels (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Thu Mar 29 02:05:48 EST 2001

I doubt if the National Award jury ever considers the BG scores as MUSIC anymore (unlike the Oscars)! Any way they usually have the least-qualified people to comment on cinema.
When producer-turned-politician-turned-socialite Subbiramy Reddy (he was a qualified 'Adi-varudi' of Yash Chopra) headed the jury, he started the trend of giving away the coveted awards to some crappy commercial Hindi films.

By the way, Anu Malik hardly does the BackGround Music (BGM) scores for his movies. He only composes (?) the songs. BGM became a bad word since Laxmikant-Pyarelal's exit from the mainfray (they used to pay a lot of attention to it). A retired musician is given the unenviable task of scoring the BGM, if a rare specimen of a director insists. Else they go for Telugu mainstream composers like Raj-Koti or our own Deva (typically if it's a copy/remake of a Telugu or Tamil film). But more often than not, Hindi movies these days have some amateur Dandia orchestra guy-turned-composer with a 200 sq.feet studio space with some cheap gadgets scoring the BGM score and is given a passing mention in the credits. I have noticed several Hollywood music scores lifted from the OST shamelessly as BGM in many A-grade Hindi films.
The songs are promoted by the cassette companies (who these days outnumber others in producing their own movies, mostly with underworld money)

The young, inexperienced (mostly airheads) TV reporters (in addition to receiving loads of gifts in cash and kind.. this from a very reliable source) are overawed by the producers and stars and musicians such as the Anu Maliks and Nadeem Shravans suffering from verbal diarrhea and praise their songs as classics and Hits, and continue to showcase them as No.1 and 2.

And the generally-ill-informed audience thinks these are the best to have happened to "INDIAN CINEMA". Give me one instance of these guys (Hindi artists) talking about Hindi films! They always say Indian films and Hindustani music for them IS Indian Music. Punjabi Bhangda IS Indian Folk Music.

Once in a blue-moon, you get to see something different. Like the magazine SCREEN's review of 'Refugee':
"Anu Malik's music is just passable"

I watched the movie Refugee on screen and sure, it's one of Anu Malik's (rare) original albums. It had a couple of hummable songs. This, along with 'Border' and 'VirAsat' he himself says are his answer to his critics who said he is unoriginal. I can agree about the first two. But Virasat? No way! It was a copy of Thevar Magan and had at least 3 songs which were copied from IR's orignal. Even the BG score, I noticed in several places were TAKEN directly from the OST (he didn't even bother to copy and generate his version. It was just 'suruttified' shamelessly).

The National Award coimmitte should insist on a certification that the songs and BGM are original compositions by the same composer (just like they insist on original voices and reject actors with 'dubbed' voices). But do you think they would bother to do such a think?

What can film-buffs like us do? Grumble? And just voice our opinion in forums such as this! What else??
From: n (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Thu Mar 29 02:08:17 EST 2001

Oops! Italics!! Sorry!

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