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An Interview with Vani Jayaram

Topic started by Neel D (@ 24.98.42.169) on Thu Aug 15 09:10:17 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Visit http://www.vanijayaram.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: av (@ 132.206.52.113) on: Mon Sep 9 15:45:54 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz:
  
  I wasnt trying to address you at all. You very well know that there are other forumers here too.
  Rather I'd say, thats what you have been doing quite often here to various others too.
  
  BTW the mother tongue Kannada singer might be Suman, who did roaringly well in Hindi, Marathi and Gujrathi films. As far as Sadhana Sargam and Jency "fumbling", its your own personal opinion. Legendary music directors are not gonna necessarily agree.
  
  But I guess, I too will never learn. :-) av
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 9 16:00:45 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz
  That Kannadiga example was merely a speculation or an extrapolation of the issue. So, I cannot pull any names off the top of my head.
  
  Identification does not and never will be interchangeable with Nativity.
  
  This is absolutely true. No one can/will call SPB and KJY tamilians. Agreed, but why is this so important when it comes to singing? Naaz, you may not be a "born tamizhan", but aren't you a tamizhan for all practical purposes short of writing it down officially? So hypothetically, let us say, there is a tamizhan brought up in tamizhnadu, has a good voice but has a horrible pronunciation of the language, would you still offer the chances in playback singing just because he is a native speaker? I don't think you would, precisely because of the above reasons that I mentioned.
  
  Personal dynamics, compatibility, capability and marketability - if we can take all of these into consideration - why do we hesitate to include a fascination with "otherness" in this list?
  
  Because most of the situations that we talked about here, whether normal or abnormal, can be explained easily with one or more of the first four qualities. For eg., SJ was chosen by IR probably because of capability, compatibility and marketability. Probably (a big probably!!!) he did not choose VJ for the lack of marketability, although she had the other two qualities. This fascination with "otherness" is not very comprehendable by me, atleast not yet.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 9 16:03:47 EDT 2002
  
  The second (Identification.....) and the fourth (Personal dynamics.....) paras are supposed to be in italics, (they are from Naaz's post). Wonder why the italics are not working!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 9 16:57:06 EDT 2002
  
  AVR -
  I am certain that you have a conscience.
  So here's what I have to say: Whatever.
  
  Kaumudi -
  
  What is the likelihood of a tamizhan / tamizhmagal (for lack of a better term - tamizhachchi is somewhat pejorative?) brought up in tamil nadu having a "bad" pronunciation? From the list I've provided can you single out one singer who mangled his/her mother-tongue at every second chance? Why resort to a hypothesis when there are examples of oversight and exclusion readily available ?
  
  VJ was marketable right up to the mid-80s - and then the public (seriously, when has the public ever had a voice in any of this?)decided that she was not trendy enough...Is that how it works? Does this not sound a bit simplistic? IR may have had his own reasons for choosing and dropping singers, so consistency in this regard has never been his forte (except in the case of SJ.) And tellingly, SJ was not exactly "marketable" 'til IR came along - not in tamizh, nor in Telugu.
  Go figure.
  
  Let me try this once again: The issue is not about discouraging non-tamizh singers. It is about encouraging tamizh singers equally and alongside the cross-border imports. If I were arguing for the former it would be a tragic irony in face of the fact that VJ was accepted and honored in Gujarati and Oriya Films (interview part 2).
  
  Fact is: Voice, Clarity, Ability, Knowledge and Nativity are secondary post the mid-80s. And this has been the particularly with Tamizh and Telugu Film Music.
  Why, even HFM went along with (random picks) "Iskku bina" (AS - Taal) "Cuute Tera Sang Na" (SM - Saat Rang Ke Sapney) "Zanjaraen runchun runchun" (KSC - Virasat) and "Hamko Rahon Me" (Srinivas - Dil Chhatha Hai). But how marketable they all are indeed!
  
  
  
  
• From: Nazir (@ 172.167.69.179) on: Mon Sep 9 19:54:15 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz being a non tamilian, thanks for your support for tamil singers. You have done enough so please start supporting singers of your language. We, as tamilians, will take of our singers.
  Go and show your mozhi patRu to you language singers, thanks
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 9 20:27:54 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz
  You made some good points. But to answer the question in your first paragraph - None of the singers mentioned had bad pronunciation, not at all, I think. But I was talking in general addressing the issue of nativity in birth vs. nativity in singing, that's all. Also, I know several acquaintances of mine, who were brought up in tamilnadu, in proper tamil-spoken households and can't say properly "Vaazhai pazham nazhuvi keezha vizhundhadhu", I call this bad pronunciation!
  
  Nazir, why did you have to come all the way just to spoil the sanctity of this thread. Please don't disturb the spirit with which the thread is proceeding. Naaz is a fine person to argue and all of us here are doing some serious talk. Could you please either participate in a good discussion or better still, simply leave?
  
  
• From: Nazir (@ 172.167.69.179) on: Mon Sep 9 20:35:34 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumudi i didnt know this is a members only forum..who are you to tell me to leave?
  
  You may be new here but im not and we have taken enough sh*t from this so called tamil supporter who has gone to school from kamalhaasan to abbas and who comes in different ids to praise himself.
  What a pathetic loser. Since he can write in decorative english doesnt make him great.
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.42.169) on: Mon Sep 9 20:40:57 EDT 2002
  
  AV,
  I agree with you that the MD sees something unique in a singer (or singers) and chooses to patronize them, whatever that unique thing may be. But that does not mean that the MD made the right choice. Here are some recent glaring examples. Do you really believe that Mathangi was the right choice for "Appadi Paakaradhu" or Sadhana Sargam for "Paattu solli" (the award belongs to IR) or Hariharan for "Kasi" (Harish/Srinivas/UnniMenon were better choices, note that Unni is neither Tamil nor homegrown but I still chose him).
  
  If "good" is subjective then "legend" is also subjective, per your argument. But "good" is not subjective. You can split the aspects of singing into items such as clarity, consistency, transition, pronunciation, enunciation, feel, expression, subtleties and nuances that a singer improvises to enhance the composition, etc. When you grade on these aspects there cannot be subjectivity. The only one thing that is subjective is "sweetness" of voice. A voice that turns you on may not turn me on. But all other aspects are universal and can be judged without subjectivity.
  
  The politics of ethnicity is not an excuse. It is a fact. VJ clearly had to undergo racism in Mumbai. And guess what, the same racism in Chennai, only in Chennai she had company.
  
  Kaumudi,
  Just extending Naaz's response to your comment about marketability - When IR made the SJ choice, SJ was hardly marketable. In the year 1976, VJ was more marketable than even PS in TFM.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 9 22:12:56 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumudi -
  
  Please don't bother with Nazir, and others of his ilk. Many months ago, there was another poster by the name Bakreed Mohammed who not only espoused similar sentiments like our dear "native" tamizh friend Nazir, but also took his compatriotism a step further by sending me hate-mail and vulgarities through email. I searched high and low in all the current topics at that particular time in TFM-page to find if Mr. Mohammed had posted any of his thoughts on TFM or music in general, but couldn't locate a single nugget (at least, not under that name.) To Mr. Nazir's credit, he at least tried his hand at lampooning, however inadequate and bitter that effort might have been. After the VJ interview was made available at the webpage, I received at least 6 other similar messages of unspeakable hate and malice, in various guises, at my yahoo address. I did not mention this , as I had no intention of giving such spinelessness any credit.
  While I do appreciate your support, for all purposes, let's put such irritants on a constant "ignore" - if you don't mind.
  
  
• From: Cinema Virumbi (@ 203.197.220.219) on: Tue Sep 10 02:28:56 EDT 2002
  
  Neel,
  
  >>>>>>But "good" is not subjective. You can split the aspects of singing into items such as clarity, consistency, transition, pronunciation, enunciation, feel, expression, subtleties and nuances that a singer improvises to enhance the composition, etc. When you grade on these aspects there cannot be subjectivity. The only one thing that is subjective is "sweetness" of voice. A voice that turns you on may not turn me on. But all other aspects are universal and can be judged without subjectivity.
  
  The politics of ethnicity is not an excuse. It is a fact. VJ clearly had to undergo racism in Mumbai. And guess what, the same racism in Chennai, only in Chennai she had company. <<<<<<<<<<
  
  Excellent analysis!
  
  As regards the first paragraph, there's another element of subjectivity. Sometimes, (rightly or wrongly!) people get a feeling that a particular singer is faking his/her voice, hiding his/her original voice, for whatever reason, and start hating him/her, purely on this count!
  
  IMHO, the second paragraph can be mildly rephrased with the following additional sentences:
  
  It was in fact, reverse racism in Chennai, the Tamil syndrome of looking at an 'outsider' with a gaping hole in place of one's mouth!!!!
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Sep 10 05:16:34 EDT 2002
  
  Cinema Virumbi -
  
  Thanks for those fun translations. I often find myself doing the same in reverse - tamizh to urdu!
  But to be on the safer side (before you are told to take your urdu pattru elsewhere, - see above)let's keep the mozhipeyarppu to a "situational" minimum. That way, those moments will still have their spontaneous charm. And if the past is any indication, you have a special knack of spotting the right moments!
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.98.42.169) on: Tue Sep 10 08:51:49 EDT 2002
  
  Cinema Virumbi,
  Thanks for your input. That was a good point you made about false voice.
  
  Naaz,
  Anyone from Tamilnadu who can read/write/speak/sing in Tamil and respect the language and culture enough to do the reading/writing/speaking/singing all correctly is a homegrown and native singer. That is my take. Nagore Haniffa and TMS are homegrown and native artises. Based on that you (Naaz) are a native also, though biologically you may not be a Tamil. Why did you disown that identity?
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Tue Sep 10 10:26:27 EDT 2002
  
  Neel D
  "Anyone from Tamilnadu who can read/write/speak/sing in Tamil and respect the language and culture enough to do the reading/writing/speaking/singing all correctly is a homegrown and native singer. "----That is exactly my take too. Under this premise, you can consider SPB, SJ, PS, Jikki, KSC, etc etc to be tamilians, right? In any case, I think we all agree on certain things and we agree to disagree on a few "others".
  
  Naaz, I will keep your advice in mind. I get very irritated when people with no good intentions come and spoil the thread. To remind you, this was the same Nazir who created the "VJ bhajana mandali" or something like that and made you the person in-charge of it!!!
  
  

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