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IR' biggest blunders......

Topic started by naan sense (@ 68.77.16.5) on Mon Sep 15 21:26:21 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Biggest blunder is losing Vani Jayaram. Seems like any IR song would've sounded super if VJ voice was there (whereas SJ voice was suited for SG, MSV)
2. blunder: Choosing Mano over SPB
3: Not giving enuff songs to Jayachandran and using weird voices like Krishnachandra etc..
4. Letting poor vocal control of PS, KJY and SJ in many a super IR song.
5: Sadma' poor songs without understanding Hindi market.
6. Wasting efforts in Kannada/Mal movies where he apparently does not have much recognition.
But, the biggest is Vani Jayaram. what a major loss to TFM

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Responses:

• From: Teja (@ 12.240.79.131) on: Mon Sep 15 23:09:44 EDT 2003
  
  Different people, different tastes...
  I am really happy that IR did not use Vani Jayaram. Her voice is irritating at best when she sings non classical songs.
  IR never preferred Mano over SPB.
  How ever, I agree with your #5 and #6
  
  
• From: Neel D (@ 24.99.73.50) on: Mon Sep 15 23:22:15 EDT 2003
  
  Why does IR not use Harish Raghavendra any more, in spite of the fact that the last huge hit song for IR was sung by Harish Raghavendra (niRpathuve nadappathuvE). After Bharathi, as far as I know, in the last three years IR has given only one song (a mediocre duet) to Harish. Why?
  
  
• From: BeN (@ 52.128.30.17) on: Mon Sep 15 23:26:18 EDT 2003
  
  one of IR biggest blunder is giving below average scores for films like Dhanush...
  all the songs are awful, not one songs impressed me or stayed in my mind...
  
  
• From: paran (@ 203.123.16.135) on: Tue Sep 16 00:43:49 EDT 2003
  
  IR has done it all...
  he got the name, the talen (undoublty)...
  
  so he should stick to big banner prodcutions, star movies, and great directors movies only...
  
  should not risk with new comers anymore....
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Tue Sep 16 01:07:13 EDT 2003
  
  for new comers IR is the only hope. IR should keep working on more projects, IR volume of films +quality of music, like the past, helped so many people to appreciate music, continue to relish the songs, radio's and tv's thrived, whole of TFM page is active, my got IR whatever that you would like to please continue to do, unlike other craps.
  
  IR is a composer. His compositions are more important than the presentation. Presentation can any time be improved.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28) on: Tue Sep 16 02:52:46 EDT 2003
  
  Mr. @ 68.77.16.5, why do you keep posting under different names? I agree with 2 and 3. Not with 6. IR was recognized very well in MFM. I believe movies like Guru, Kochu kochu santhoshangal won awards. His best work in the mid-to-late 90s has come in MFM not TFM.
  
  His only blunder, IMO, came with respect to choice of singers which has been suspect right from the late 70s. Jency, Mano, Arunmozhi,Krishnachander, himself and Bhava should have been used sparingly or not at all. Malaysia Vasudevan shouldnt have sung more than 30-40 songs, he ended up singing around 400.Another appalling fact is that he started singing in the mid-70s and continued for IR all the way upto the 90s. Lucky him, what else to say?
  
  And Teja, IR did prefer Mano a lot in the late 80s as compared to SPB, chk out the stats. Mano had no business singing in Nayagan, eeramaana rojave, idhayaththai thirudaadhe etc.
  
  Most of these singers wouldnt have even been track singers in the 60s when the standards were higher.
  
  If I had a chance to meet IR this would be the first thing I'd ask him. Of course, I'll get a philosophical reply if at all I muster the guts to ask him this ;-)But I think that IR compositions not being singer-centric he didnt care enough about choosing proper singers. Either that or nepotism. (Did Mano bribe him? :-) )
  
  As for the present scene the trend is introduce 2 new singers every album who disappear as fast as they come. And IR is just following the trend trying different singers like Harish, Karthik etc.none of whom are impressive enough to warrant a long run.
  
  If I had a choice to pick singers for IR's songs it would be like this:
  
  Male:
  
  Tier 1:
  
  SPB, KJY, JC
  
  Tier 2:
  
  MV(mostly for dappanguthus or teasing type songs) and occasionally Deepan Chakravarthy or IR himself(for rustic songs)
  
  Lady singers:
  
  Tier 1:
  
  SJ, VJ, PS, Sujatha(before 1984)
  
  Chithra, VJ, Swarna, Sujatha (mid -80s to 90s) and SJ used sparingly
  
  Tier 2:
  
  Uma Ramanan, SPS(for songs like "padipula zero " etc.)
  
  That should have been it.
  
  Atleast 300-400 compositions have been marred by bad choice of singers. This is what is the true "vizhalukku iraitha neer" which ppl should be referring to :-)
  
  Enough of my rants, just bored..
  
  
• From: Mythila (@ 203.200.33.65) on: Tue Sep 16 05:29:56 EDT 2003
  
  Purv, very true.
  Bhava/KR/YSR should STOP singing.
  Another big blunder is IR or his PA , not viewing this thread of TFM Page
  
  
• From: paran (@ 203.123.16.135) on: Tue Sep 16 07:18:33 EDT 2003
  
  Mano bribed him?...
  May be..in 'Pandiyan' Mano sang almost all the songs
  
  did Hariharan bribed him?
  May be ...in "Kaasi"..he sang all the songs?..
  is this a trend introduced by IR..
  
  can anyone name any other films which have 1 single singer in all the songs?
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 68.19.1.225) on: Tue Sep 16 07:28:31 EDT 2003
  
  Paran - i think most of Sivajis/MGRs films would have just TMS right ?
  
  I don't think there is any "biggest" blunders. Mano's, or the other singers mentioned songs were hit. Remember Mudhal Mariyadhaaai - it had all but one by MV - and that was a major hit.
  
  
  
• From: naan sense (@ 68.77.16.5) on: Tue Sep 16 14:14:23 EDT 2003
  
  vijay, that is my signature.
  
  but, early IR (the best times) was glorified by the really fresh voices of MV, PJ particularly more than anyone else. I consider it the best times of IR. MV like SPS later became inappropriate. but, i hear some IR songs by VJ, i really wonder what happened? was it ego problems for VJ or did she find it difficult to match IR' pace? or was it because IR just gave her disco songs only?
  
  Till date, I don't find a compilation of IR songs in Kannada or Malayalam, but most other obscure MDs have theirs.
  
  
• From: purv (@ 205.231.31.214) on: Tue Sep 16 15:37:17 EDT 2003
  
  Mythila, I was away all day. You miss me that much, huh!
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Sep 16 16:29:31 EDT 2003
  
  Why is Mano a much maligned man in this DF?
  True he tried to imitate SPB, but leaving that quality aside, he exhibits good vocal control in so many of his songs - just sample Malayala Karaioram(I first thought only SPB could have glided effortlessly through this), Malaikoil vaasalil, Maadathile..I found his voice to suit Rajini as good as that of SPB. I think he does quite a good job in peppy songs. Definitely preferable to the soft ones like HR, Karthik, HH and UK
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ 172.191.75.243) on: Tue Sep 16 17:32:31 EDT 2003
  
  Prabhu.....puhleeeeze.....mAdathhilE is by SPB.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Sep 16 19:26:57 EDT 2003
  
  Pardon me SL, some months back I'd commended SPB's 'nakkal' modulation for super* in that song in the SPB thread! :)
  In late 80s Super* songs like Meenamma and Vaa*3, kanna Vaa, Mano did a more than average job.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 202.54.137.28) on: Wed Sep 17 03:46:28 EDT 2003
  
  yes Prabhu I dont understand - there is aset of People who keep talking of Mano's singing
  
  he does justice to the songs given to him
  
  when u people are ready to Accept SS with bad Pronounciation Mano is Far better than these
  he has good voice control, good Pronounciation & variety also
  
  
  
• From: raj (@ 202.54.137.28) on: Wed Sep 17 03:49:30 EDT 2003
  
  the Class Mano songs
  
  1. Oh Azhagu nilavu
  
  2. Meenamma Meenamma
  
  3. Then Mozhi endhan then mozhi
  
  4. Kaaviyam Paada Va
  
  5. Adho mega Oorvalam
  
  6. Aathangara marame
  
  7. Aayirathil naan oruvan
  
  8. Aasayile Paathi katti
  
  9. Malai kovil vasalil
  
  10. Vaa va vaa kanna va
  
  & many more
  
  
• From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Wed Sep 17 06:19:20 EDT 2003
  
  i feel the drawback for Mano is everyone tries to compare him with SPB. Obviously he will pale..Think Mano as a standalone entity and evaluate him..he will still fail..he he..:-)
  
  
• From: jagan (@ 61.11.73.84) on: Wed Sep 17 06:32:40 EDT 2003
  
  IMHO, I would rate IR's blunders as below :
  
  1) Changing his orchestatrion style from early ninties. He stopped using live instruments Viz, strings, brass & mainly the bass guitar.
  
  If he should have done this he should have done much before ARR's entry.
  2) Using bavadharani for most of the good songs
  
  3) pale chorus where the shruti dips particularly when you hear them on a CD now.
  
  4) Used his son Kartik for Keyboards in his studios. which ultimatly produced irritating tones though the phrases had a high level of music.
  
  I will not agree with the point that Sadma had poor music. As per my knowledge it was the most original music which HFM failed to understand.
  It was not IR's fault and he did not loose anything by not composing for HFM
  
  As regards to MFM, KFM and telugu, IR's contribution was well acclaimed.
  
  
• From: Angry but reasonably so! (@ 202.156.2.186) on: Wed Sep 17 07:06:33 EDT 2003
  
  I donno what all these 'pulutthi' raskals are blabbering about, tharanketta maadunga poi engeyo pudukku kavvuma.....athu maari istatthukku ethetho nonsense views....moodungada unga poooodukku kooothi vaayngala
  
  
• From: naan sense (@ 68.77.153.10) on: Wed Sep 17 10:10:16 EDT 2003
  
  jagan, major point and wonder why?
  
  3) pale chorus where the shruti dips particularly when you hear them on a CD now.
  
  this is one of the biggest irritating things in IR songs of the 90s. example, extraordinary songs with stupid chorus lines - thathi thathi thavidhum; alli sundara valli laali;
  
  He stopped using live instruments Viz, strings, brass & mainly the bass guitar - TOTALLY gone!
  
  Sadma was actually really bad songs, there were hits in Tamil, but this was because IR was at the heights of innovation and even a non-melodious song of his became super because of new ideas - otherwise how did ponmeni urugudhey; poongatru; become hits? first thing is the mood and class, which Hindi audiences don't get it, second, only Tamil audiences welcomed non-melodious songs; Malyalam & Hindi just don't seem to get to enjoy songs without melodiousness, because these guys hardly experiment, while malayalam music is still traditional, Hindi songs from want of innovation stressed on melodiousness.
  
  that is why, i am saying Sadma (Hey Zindagi was okay, but the rest of the songs were too ahead of the times or too unacceptable for Hindi) was poor for Hindi market and IR never bothered for Hindi market to any level he did for mal, kannada & telugu movies. But, he gave 2 extraordinary numbers in Kamagni and 5 super compositions in Mahadev, even the Holi number was so right, yet the songs went unnoticed i believe.
  
  
• From: Normal Man (@ 208.8.57.2) on: Wed Sep 17 10:39:39 EDT 2003
  
  Main blunder... making Karthiraja do the arrangements. His make the natural instruments sound feeble and the unwanted synth very high. A perfect recent example, listen to the "Vaanaville Vaanaville" from Ramana. It has an excellent guitar piece which flows in the pallavi. He would have made it almost sound nil, unless you listen to it closely. He should get rid of that guy first.
  
  

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