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Subbudu

Topic started by Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on Wed Dec 26 04:23:24 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Check out the latest issue of Kumudam (The new year issue I suppose). Subbudu has been shooting his mouth about the state of TFM in 2001. Surprisingly the usually-abrasive Subbudu says things like 'Please dont think I'm blaming Rahman outright...' and adds another sentence to pacify ARR fans.

Anyway thats besides the point. The issue is that Subbudu lists about 5 very melodious songs as the best of 2001, like vaseegara, azhage sugama and so on. And totally denounces fast, peppy tracks and other such numbers. Is he trying to say that those numbers are pointless?

He also seems to hate 'vaadi vaadi' from ATV. Seems like he doesnt want an entire genre of songs to be out and popular. Imagine if all TFM is just melody music what will be its state?

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Responses:

• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Dec 26 06:06:36 EST 2001
  
  Karthik
  
  Looks like you very conveniently omitted ("Raaja's chinna varisu" as he calls him) YSR's "Mun paniya" and "Manjakkattu Maina" from Subbudu's top 5!
  "Totally denounces fast, peppy numbers"? I think Manjakkaattu Maina will fit this slot; it seems to have gathered its share of acclaim from the masses as well as in the media - Sujatha (writer) to Subbudu.
  
  Subbudu's thoughts on TFM don't carry great credibility, but regardless, I must add that the 3 songs he's specifically trashed - "vaadi vaadi", "male male", "machiniye machiniye" - deserve much more condemnation for their sheer crassness, mass appeal notwithstanding.
  
  
• From: twilight_zone (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Wed Dec 26 07:16:55 EST 2001
  
  CLAP CLAP CLAP...suresh, well said.....
  
  
• From: logic_gates (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Wed Dec 26 09:00:44 EST 2001
  
  As if subbudu is the authority for music. He is just another human being with his own likes and dislikes. I dont give a damn to his views.
  
  Suresh, listen to the hindi version of machiniye i.e. ruth aa gaye re...You will realise how the tamil lyrics have spoiled such a wonderful tune.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Wed Dec 26 09:13:25 EST 2001
  
  CLAP CLAP CLAP...logic_gates, well said.....
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Dec 26 09:37:21 EST 2001
  
  (il)logic-gates
  When I used the word "crass" for "machiniye" and the rest, wasn't it obvious that it referred to the lyrical content and not the tune?
  
  It also beats my logic when you tell me I must listen to the original version (in Hindi) before I form an opinion on a Tamil song..
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Wed Dec 26 09:56:48 EST 2001
  
  
  It also beats my logic when you tell me I must listen to the original version (in Hindi) before I form an opinion on a Tamil song..
  
  
  Suresh here you missed logic-gates(LG)' point. You got LG correct in your first line of reply post but i think you missed that in your second line. LG *thought*(IMO) that your posting has something to do with tune so recommended the hindi version that had better lyrics. That was not a Strict Prescription(again IMHO) from LG.
  
  NOM
  
  
• From: MEMBER-RAAJA MUSIC UNIVERSAL (@ 213.121.248.90) on: Wed Dec 26 10:56:02 EST 2001
  
  SUBBUDU ISNT HE A BIG JOKE
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Dec 26 13:14:39 EST 2001
  
  Kupps
  I understand, thanks.. the logic in the 1st point got neutralised by the illogic in the 2nd one?
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 172.190.153.85) on: Wed Dec 26 17:21:17 EST 2001
  
  http://www.kumudam.com/kumudam/mainpage.html
  try andha naalum vandhidadho in book 1
  
  
• From: aglg (@ 151.201.36.159) on: Wed Dec 26 18:18:23 EST 2001
  
  I dont listen to music based on tastes of a 80 year old :)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Dec 26 18:57:50 EST 2001
  
  nobody seems to have read the final statements of this essay. or have you have conveniently forgotten it so soon?
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Dec 26 18:58:08 EST 2001
  
  nobody seems to have read the final statements of this essay. or have you all conveniently forgotten them so soon?
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.106) on: Wed Dec 26 20:10:02 EST 2001
  
  "LG *thought*(IMO) that your posting has something to do with tune so recommended the hindi version that had better lyrics."
  
  -- Kupps, I think that's exactly why Suresh came up with his reply-post (as you call it) saying
  
  "It also beats my logic when you tell me I must listen to the original version (in Hindi) before I form an opinion on a Tamil song.."
  
  because Suresh thought
  
  "how bad logic_gates thought that I didn't like the tune of that song, when it was especially the tune that I liked and NOT the lyrics"
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Wed Dec 26 23:25:30 EST 2001
  
  karthi, kuzhappareengale anna:) these tunes weren't earthshaking anyway, but that's another issue..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Dec 27 00:05:29 EST 2001
  
  Instead of just saying Subbudu is 80 years old, Subbudu is just another humang being with likes and dislikes...I would (if I did have a differing opinion)try to address what he is/is not missing about "current" music,formulate a response and take him to task (or agree with his reasoning) on the "terms" set by his essay.
  
  Yes, we all do have likes and dislikes. Otherwise, why would we bother with these discussion threads in the first place???
  
  Suresh - bang on. Those tunes were not "earth"shaking (no pun intended- the original from EARTH was also a bit tepid,yeah, so it was an ARR tune, and it sucked, so bite me!)and you're wise not to go there...
  
  Opinions do not qualify as Criticism. The latter needs to be backed by a context and analysis - which nobody seems too keen on in these time pass drop-ins. So let's all keep it light and fluffy? :-))
  
  
  
• From: twilight_zone (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Thu Dec 27 00:33:19 EST 2001
  
  regarding 'rithu aa gayee re' and 'macha machiniye'...well, rehman was the creator, and he Shud have stepped in to stop the crap lyrics from spoiling a good carnatic song. He didn't and this might just imply that he just didn't care what happened to the PRASHANT movie (as i always believe, he seems to be of strong belief that SHANKAR, MANIRATNAM are the two best channels for his music.) All IMHO. In fact, as far as bad lyrics are concerned, rehman has a clean track record untill recently ( even before this one big blemish - MACHINIYE...and how about the NENTHUKITTEN song, which goes something like 'NENTHUKITEN NENTHUKITEN NEI VILAKKA YAETHI VACHU UNNODA KANNATHIL MUTHAM KODUKKA'...enna ezhavu" ya ithu, kiss kaetta thara maatangala, idhukku nei vilakka yaethi vachu kumbidanuma? JEANS song "ANBE ANBE KOLLAADHE" is another crap LYRICS song...DEVATHAI KULITHA THULIGALAI ALLI THEERTHAM ENDRE NAAN KUDIPEN...nalla varudhu vaayile..)
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.119) on: Thu Dec 27 20:22:02 EST 2001
  
  One of Subbudu's observations is noteworthy w.r.t. lack of harmony / melody.
  
  Even in instances when Ilayaraja did not give a conventional, strong melody, the harmony back-up used to be awesome.The informed listener knew that the staccato nature of the melody was for it to gel well with the chord progressions which formed the backbone for his great harmony, eg:-
  'chittu kuruvi vetkappaduthu'. He had an agenda. When the situation demanded a strong melody base, he delivered and how!!!
  
  In today's scene, there have been several songs where the harmony layer is conspicuous by its absence and as for the melody/tune.....one starts yearning for S.V. Venkataramans, CR Subburamans,G Ramanathans and MSVs.
  
  Please give us atleast something to savour, melody or harmony.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Thu Dec 27 22:28:19 EST 2001
  
  I'll settle for good, clear tamil singing, as well.
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.137) on: Fri Dec 28 00:02:46 EST 2001
  
  Naaz, what do you mean by "light and fluffy"???
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.137) on: Fri Dec 28 00:04:39 EST 2001
  
  suresh, anna illa "annachi" :))
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 202.144.44.234) on: Sat Dec 29 07:53:10 EST 2001
  
  Subbudu has his own rights to comments and he did it. It will not make any sense by bashing Subbudu. Instead we can discuss how far his comments are true. I accept 70% of his comments.
  
  The entire blame on present day MDs is not totally acceptable. Even "Vaadi Vaadi" song is very rythamic and catchy song. The lyrics are real atrocity. I don't think nowadays MDs concentrate much on lyrics. Forget about it. How many MDs can find grammer mistakes in the lyrics like MSV, KVM and IR?
  
  Director holds the entire responsibility of choosing a particular tune and lyrics. Since everyone is doing for money, no one bothers about good decent lyrics (Arivumathi is an exception). MDs doing decent job with good directors.
  
  Whatever subbudu said about present MDs are applicable for MSV and IR too. "Nethu Raathiri Amma", "Nilak Kaayuthu", "Aatha Aathorama Vaariya", "Javvadu Medaiyittu", some LRE songs under MSV and some SJ songs under IR are also falling in-line with the songs Subbudu mentioned.
  
  Nethu Raathiri Amma - Why the hell u r calling mother for night?
  Aatha aathorma vaariya - Really worst lyrics.
  All the lines in "Javaadu Medaiyittu" song have double meaning. Idiotic tamiz couldn't even make it out.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Sat Dec 29 10:25:33 EST 2001
  
  >>'NENTHUKITEN NENTHUKITEN NEI VILAKKA YAETHI VACHU UNNODA KANNATHIL MUTHAM KODUKKA'...enna ezhavu" ya ithu, kiss kaetta thara maatangala, idhukku nei vilakka yaethi vachu kumbidanuma? JEANS song "ANBE ANBE KOLLAADHE" is another crap LYRICS song...DEVATHAI KULITHA THULIGALAI ALLI THEERTHAM ENDRE NAAN KUDIPEN...nalla varudhu vaayile..)<<
  
  Why so much cynicism, dearest twilight zone?
  Have u heard the term 'sweet nothings'? You can't be too judgemental on romantic lyrics, cos the silliness involved plays a role in portraying the naivete and lightheadedness associated with a blossoming romance.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Sat Dec 29 10:30:15 EST 2001
  
  to twilight zone again:
  and i thought u were supposed to be a 'romantic' who looked beyond black & white and i'm the 'classic' who takes things literally. ;-)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sat Dec 29 15:48:18 EST 2001
  
  There is a difference between "romantic" and "cheap/vulgar" lyrics. "Panivizhum Malar Vanam Un Parvai Oru Varam" "Rasathi Unna Kaanadha Nenju Kathadi Pol Aaduthu" - these were romantic songs as well. Compare them with the above Nenthukiten and Kulitha Thuligalai - and the difference will be clear to you.
  
  
• From: Sathyamoorthy (@ 213.42.0.243) on: Sat Dec 29 16:26:57 EST 2001
  
  Suppudu oru mukka loosunnu intha ulagathukke theriyum.. Intha paithiyathukkaha yen nam ponnana nerathai veenadikkanum?? Suppudukku Parpana puthi.. Paarpanai thavira vera yaarum nalla isaiyai thanthal antha kizhattu naayaal poruthukka mudiyaathu..
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Sat Dec 29 16:40:25 EST 2001
  
  Naaz,
  I understand certain tfm songs have "cheap/vulgar" lyrics. But I don't think the lines mentioned by twilight zone from nenthukitten or anbe anbe from jeans fall into that category. At least i personally don't see anything cheap or vulgar about them, they r just plain silly.
  
  

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