Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!
cyk
Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.
let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.
The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:
Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song
Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions
Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja
Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now
Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?
In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.
And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.
Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)
The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.
Responses:
- From: fgsd (@ 192.135.247.84)
on: Mon Sep 4 00:18:03 EDT 2000
One thing i can tell you is that Get admitted
yourself into a mental hospital. We have seen
so many MORON's like you criticizing the GENIUS.
- From: eden (@ 61.1.250.187)
on: Mon Sep 4 00:49:14 EDT 2000
cyk!
Can you be explicit in stating your purpose of starting this thread?
Tks
- From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123)
on: Mon Sep 4 00:55:38 EDT 2000
oh oh oh! This is scathing man! Seems like this Pennathur has something really against IR!
But to see thru this write-up a few queries...
1. Did Karthik Raja really ever bad mouth ARR?
2. Was the title isai nyani really self-anointed?
3. Has IR never acknowleged his gurus like MSV or GKV?
And last...
4. How true is the Punnagai Mannan episode?
5. Did IR ever interfere in scripts? BRs or others?
Pennathur also forgot to mention 2 more things...IR's own audio label...I dunno what happened to it now. And IR-MR issue.
Karthik
- From: ambleen (@ 194.138.242.4)
on: Mon Sep 4 01:29:15 EDT 2000
guys,
pls don't waste ur time here.....u all should know better rite?
;)
- From: shysun (@ 202.9.188.67)
on: Mon Sep 4 01:54:42 EDT 2000
tfm page must isay must remove this thread,every thing here from pennethur are false,coz kalaignar dr.mu ka,anointed raaja with isai gnani nad kamal with kalai gnani off late,this is ghastly and if this thread is not removed TFM PAGE IS SURE GOING TO LOSE ALL ITS RAAJA FANS AND MANY MUSIC LOVING DF'ERS,i will see to it,ms,pg et al where are you can you not put an end to this garbage ???
- From: Karthik S (@ 12.10.193.123)
on: Mon Sep 4 02:12:51 EDT 2000
Hey shysun....
dont run away from confrontation man. I can fight my IR's battle against any hardcore ARR fan. I think its cowardice to take a thread off to show your love for IR! I just wanted someone knowledgeable to explain the illogical claims of Pennathur so that the truth comes out and talks for itself.
:-) dont shy away from the sun, shysun!
Karthik S
- From: S (@ 192.135.244.69)
on: Mon Sep 4 05:03:07 EDT 2000
>>and it is an open
secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman<<
yeah, yeah,The other songs were composed by sanker-ganesh.
EdhO oru makku ennavellAmO uLari vechchirukkAn, idhai pOi oru topic A Arambichchu EmppA paduththareenga...
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Mon Sep 4 05:41:09 EDT 2000
guys,
pennathur is hallucinating. he has no idea what he has vomited on the site.
"Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?"
blatant untruths. IR likes solitude, which is perceived as arrogance. and the title was given to him by kalaignar.
"While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song."
agreed, but when has IR ever claimed that he is the greatest?
"Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions."
strictly personal business. people like Robert de Niro and Marlon Brando rarely, if at all, speak to the press. no one ever rubbishes them. in india, Amitabh Bachchan shut out the press for 10 years, and was called names for doing so. i guess the indian press just takes great performers for granted.
"Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja."
lies again. the other day, on DD, he was talking about his favourite composers and lauding their greatness. he started with G Ramanathan, then went to CR Subbaraman, and many others, and then he talked about "annan" MSV. in ananda vikatan, he wrote an entire essay on Dhanraj Master, who taught him to play the guitar. what else do you want this man to do?
"Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now."
Punnagai Mannan was released in 1985, and Roja came in 1991. so KB clean forgot ARR for 6 years and then suddenly decided to give him a chance, eh?
"Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then."
like what, jayalalitha's "son's" wedding?
"While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?"
does this chap know that during his peak, IR used to frequent the Mylapore house of a mridangam vidwan, from whom he learnt to sing carnatic music? and that there used to be a mini-riot every time? if rajini walks around mixing with people on the streets, there will be large-scale riots every day, and that is the reason why they stay away from the public.
"Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too?"
are they? has any survey been conducted or is this just assumption?
"It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo."
hmm...IR worked with MSV in 3 films. i don't see any coup in getting MSV to sing. the real reason is something i don't weant to discuss simply out of respect for the great man that MSV is.
"And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie."
ridiculous is all i can say.
"Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)."
IR cannot retire for various reasons, lack of grace has nothing to do with it.
- From: Subbu (@ 192.39.71.67)
on: Mon Sep 4 06:00:01 EDT 2000
Many people express that 'Rahman's music is urban and so it's the best' - it is clearly absurd.
1. Most of the internet users are from cities. So for them anything urban automatically becomes the best.
2. Tamil Nadu still lives in its villages. In that way IR's native tunes is easily the most appreciated music. Giving original native compositions is more difficult than inspirational stuff/remixes/polishing mundane stuff.
cram :
You have mentioned about IR learning carnatic music from a Mylapore mridangam vidwan. I am interested in knowing :
1. Is it Padmashree UmayAlpuram Sivaraman ?
2. How many years did he learn ?
The reason is when I was in Chennai, I took mridangam lessons from him. I used to daily look at the photo in his living room with IR. But I never asked him about that.
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