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What's the reason for the Cold War between IR and ARR?

Topic started by Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 12.92.214.77) on Sat Apr 21 18:07:40 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I hate ARR because he didn't respect IR even as a senior in the industry. So far IR didn't pass any comments about him. Is there any personal ill feelings between them?

Again, pls don't start comparision fight here.

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Responses:

• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Mon Apr 23 10:19:36 EDT 2001
  
  These are some of the falacy that many of you have in tfm.
  If you want to hate him, then well its your choice. But, don't makeup reasons for that.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Tue Apr 24 00:55:13 EDT 2001
  
  CF,
  If you want to hate him, hate whom :-))
  
  
• From: nakkals (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Tue Apr 24 01:16:06 EDT 2001
  
  Seems like you are 'kalikku-ing' your 'pozhuthu' by coming up with some interesting reasons:-)). Is it satisfying your creativity or are you another Deva?
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.20) on: Tue Apr 24 01:22:42 EDT 2001
  
  I really dont think there's any cold war between IR and ARR. Both of them are busy with their respective work and mostly let their music do all the talking. IR recent outburst only shows his annoyance with the press and it'd be better if the press left him alone to do his work and judge him ONLY by his music.
  
  Both IR and ARR have put tamilnadu in the world platform and I'm really proud about both of them for that. And whenever they've met (very few occasionas I suppose!) they seemed very cordial and ARR also supposedly has fallen at IRs feet, which shows the cordial vibes between them. IR is no doubt a very very senior person to ARR in terms of musical knowledge and experience and I'm sure ARR acknowledges this, regardless of what some people have been 'quoting' as what Rahman has said/not said!
  
  The bad vibes are between the jobless fans of IR and jobless fans of ARR.
  
  So the matter ends there! Period.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Tue Apr 24 06:16:48 EDT 2001
  
  Nice analysis Karthik :-)
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.20) on: Tue Apr 24 08:17:58 EDT 2001
  
  Cosmician:
  
  I feel we think along the same lines. We both adore IR 'cos we grew up with his music and at the same time agree that his recent scores are no patch on his older ones. We also love ARR for the kind of music he is giving us!
  
  Good to feel there's one more who can think on a more balanced note!
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Tue Apr 24 11:38:21 EDT 2001
  
  Kupps:
  My earlier posting was directed to velai vetti illaada summa Pozhudhu pokkikittu irukkuravan.
  
  Pozhudhu pogadhavan :
  Don't take my previous line seriously.
  
  Karthik_S & Cosmecian:
  I too have the same opinion as yours. But, of late (no no always) many have started bashing ARR in more innovative way than other by starting different-different threads. It's really bad. And many have the falacy that ARR considers IR as his enemy.
  I don't know why.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 12.47.56.254) on: Tue Apr 24 13:42:42 EDT 2001
  
  CF...... u know what.... i have seen this in TFM page.... suddenly there will be lots of thread thrashing IR..... then it dies slowly..... and suddenly it happens for ARR..... hmm.... whatever, jollyaaa irukku :-)
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Tue Apr 24 13:54:37 EDT 2001
  
  I have not seen any thread thrashing IR for any reason so far.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 12.47.56.254) on: Tue Apr 24 15:24:21 EDT 2001
  
  really..... ok, then i have no comment CF :-).... may be i can dig up from the archives, but i don't want to have that *punniyam*.....
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Tue Apr 24 23:19:01 EDT 2001
  
  CF,
  
  Here you go.
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/26675.08.05.12.html
  I am reproducing a sample... :)
  
  
  From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Mon Apr 23 12:11:52 EDT 2001
  
  
  
  devathai (first stanza of nAL thOrum endhan kaNNil)
  
  I know IR was the MD of that film, but did he do the BGM?. I watched it two weeks ago in DD (I think). I couldn't hear most of the dialogs and the BGMs took over. Many characters in the film spoke the dialogs as if they were inside the well.
  
  I have seen Avadaram of Nasser and I own a complete cassette with all its songs. It is one such film of IR in 90's in which all the songs were class. Avadaram was a flop, but its exposed nasser as a good thinking and different director.
  I don't know what happened to him in Devathai. And, also in the bgm IRs usual violin and flutes were missing. So, I think his son (KR probably..) had done the BGM.
  But for one song, nothing much could be said about other songs
  
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Tue Apr 24 23:20:30 EDT 2001
  
  CF,
  
  Do you recollect the above posting? Now let us don't find a new meaning for thrashing... :-)
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Apr 25 11:33:21 EDT 2001
  
  S T S:
  
  I have not seen any thread thrashing IR for any reason so far
  
  What I mentioned here is thread. What I did was a posting on the thread Are IR's songs mini-symphonies ?
  
  There is a big difference between a thread and postings on thread.
  
  Kuppai songs of ARR
  ARR worst MD
  Copying songs of ARR
  ARR this
  ARR that
  
  All these are threads thrashing ARR.
  Is there any thread that thrashes IR like that. I don't support that, but I am asking you a question.
  
  As far as my posting that you gave as an example is concerned, I didn't actually thrash IR. I think you failed to read what I said about Avadhaaram.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Apr 25 11:34:40 EDT 2001
  
  Include question mark (?) where ever appropriate.
  
  Sorry.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Apr 25 13:57:23 EDT 2001
  
  I posted this in another thread thought it might be relevant here
  
  why IR's good songs dont get noticed. well! I think he deserves it. no matter how good the music is, everything depends on how successful/ good the movie is so IR should not have fought with good directors like bharathiraja, manirathnam, KB etc... if u notice IR's best and greatest mostly came from top directors . all the top directors now have ARR as their MD so IR is now reduced to 1 dimension!
  
  this is what i call " wag the dog" scenario
  
  why IR fought with
  
  Balachander: KB was not to keen on giving up MSV when IR was new and hot, and was skeptical of IR, much the same as kamal is to ARR now. When MSV faded away slowly KB roped in IR here and there. But given the ego of KB who is much senior to IR. The expected ego clashes arose when KB was made to stand in queue with other trash directors( a common habbit of IR, it is alleged) so the love -hate reletionship continued with IR working in sindhu bhairavi and not in vaname ellai or jaadhi malli . Anyway Kavithalaya used Deva more often for its home production (eg. annamalai)
  As soon as KB and Kavithalaya co-discovered ARR . he used ARR for Duet, but his last movie(so far) kalki used another MD.
  
  Manirathnam:
  
  The main reason for the fight is touted as mani's non-inclusion of the song "putham puthu poo poothatho" in "thalapathi". which lead to mani being (as usual) queued in front of IR's house along with other boot lickers. Mani made a fine gesture by collecting IR's filmfare award for "thalapathi" (which IR refused to come) but it did not work out.
  
  Mani's association with IR was forcibly terminated after he signed up for Kavithalaya's "Roja". where IR simply cud not figure in the scheme of things bcoz of KB. which lead to the discovery of ARR and hence a new chapter in TFM. ( i guess it was p.c.sriram who recommended ARR bcoz he had worked in some advt. with him)
  
  Bharathiraja: By far the unbeatable combo in TFM has been IR-Bharathiraja-vairamuthu. Now vairamuthu as he is doing now, with ARR thought he was the most important among the 3 (again "wag the dog" scenario) and got into a tiff with IR. Bharathiraja also had some tiffs with IR. Bharathiraja used some vague MD for rajini's kodiparakuthu (where a rajini-IR-Bharathiraja combo wud have been brilliant) to start the split and soon he made up with IR and did "nadodi thendral" without vairamuthu . which flopped and vairamuthu, said it was bcoz of the bad luck associated with his own absence that caused the movie to flop. After which bharathiraja went into a shell and resurfaced with "kezhakku semaiyila" when ARR was hot. ( again Bharathiraja and IR had their own wgo clashes when IR cudnt afford it)
  
  So there is the flashbak of the top 3 directors of 1985- 1995 decade . IR lacked good strategy and +ve relationship with Movie Dir. and he was'nt modern enough to be buisiness minded. and so After the super hit of "thalapathi" IR lost all good directors and also was inderectly responsible for ARR's draft into TFM.
  
  After 1991 his biggest hits I can think of are "kaathalukku mariayadai( The movie did well)
  devadai and nassers-first-movie( Both flopped). he did some rajini and kamal movies where 1 or 2 songs did well! but nothing that really stunned the tamils to death.
  
  thats my analysis of the downfall of the IR empire
  
  He's good even now. But if anyone kids he has a market as good as ARR they are just too loyal to IR thats all. Its the money that matters always and IR , to put it simply "cant show the money"
  not that quality wise IR is still superior, he distinctly lacks good movie dir. to get the best out of him.
  
  the varying relationships, such as ARR's friendliness with IR's past enemies is a very good reason for a cold war. I think it exists and they r just putting up a show to maintain their decency. which is good. sachin and ganguly do it so these 2 can do it ;-)
  
  Bye
  Bharath
  
  
  
• From: boomer (@ 47.230.0.42) on: Wed Apr 25 14:40:06 EDT 2001
  
  Sachin-Ganguly.Oh no I see a whole new forum coming up.
  BTW, Bharath your analysis was interesting and I am pretty sure a lot of die hard IR fans will disagree with you.I agree with your analysis that IR ego was big at one point. /ducking and weaving from missiles/
  /digression/
  Also I disagree with bharathiraaja being a top director. When was the last time he gave a good film (Kizhakku cheemaiyilae was so so not a very good film). I think he has given more trash films than good ones.
  /end of digression.Sorry/
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 203.124.253.190) on: Wed Apr 25 15:40:05 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath
  
  One is tired of responding to half-baked info that crops time and again, but the danger of lazy gossip such as yours gaining legitimacy prompts me to join issue
  
  1) Wrong to say that IRs best came with top directors. There are umpteen instances to prove you wrong right down to "Bharathi" and "Friends", but then u might say these are hardly good albums.
  Again, IR never can be accused of outrightly favouring big banners even at the height of his popularity. On the contrary, he's a kingmaker literally turning novice actors (Mohan, Ramarajan) and directors into box office winners
  
  2)If your source is a "manjal" mag from kodambakkam, you may have to do better than throw unsubstantiated allegations as "KB..standing in the queue". Don't you even have the slightest remorse as you slander? Common knowledge shows that "Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal" was the last movie in which IR-KB worked together, and no one needs to point out to you the quality of songs in that movie. There are other versions on the reasons for their rift soon after, incl. the much publicised one of KB not enjoying the success of the film attributed to the music and so on, but let's stop short of lending authenticity to rumours until true facts are known
  
  3)Maniratnam's break with IR was again attributed to some misunderstanding that IR's family had with GV, and not your favourite all-weather reason of "standing in the queue". There've been reports of umpteen producers and directors who stand in line to get hold of ARR, would they all qualify as 'boot-lickers' as well?
  
  4) Even according to your fantasy scenario, IR is not to blame for the break with BharathiRaaja, so what's your point here?
  
  IR lacks strategy and the cunning to do active PR, true. But if creativity and art are all about cultivating big-ticket patrons and cocooning oneself in a cloak of servile humility, well, you won't find too many 'real artists' do that. Yes, he's definitely behind in the race for big-buck commercial glory, but your "money alone matters" mantra is symptomatic of all that's ugly with the film world now.
  
  
  
  
  
  

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