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A JOURNEY WITH K.V. MAHADEVAN

Topic started by Manisekaran (@ 161.142.2.11) on Fri Jun 14 01:54:38 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is an effort, in a modest way, to trace the great contributions of KVM to the Tamil Film Music. As Tamil Film songs originate from the Tamil films, I am aslo taking the liberty of discussing the background of the films where KVM had comsposed- with the intention of adding spice. I believe this article would serve as a nostalgic tonic to the fans of old songs.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Manisegaran (@ 161.142.2.11) on: Wed Aug 7 00:42:22 EDT 2002
  
  Dear Saravanan,
  
  I saw Ponni Thirunaal when I was a child. A useless film alright. The actors are Valayabathi Muthukrishna and Rajasulochana.
  
  In most of my postings I only mention the songs that are really good, otherwise songs that I like. I am being unfair of course.
  
  The songs of Ponni Thirunaal that I did not mention are, according to some brief notes I have are:
  
  1. Pongi Varum Kaveriye Engal Thaaye by TRichy Loganathan
  
  2. Karumbu Villai Eduthu by Seergazhi Govindarajan, MS Rajeswary and company (long song)
  
  3. Mathalam Kotta - a small song by Soolamangalam Rajalechumy
  
  4.Naattukkor Thanthayadi-Bharatha Naattukkor Thanthayadi by Soolamangalam Rajalechumy and Jayalechumy - as you rightly pointed out. A rare combination for cine songs.
  
  5.Pattu Chiragadithe Parakkum by PS, as you pointed out. I have not heard this song after seeing the film. Is the song that good?
  
  6. Inba Vaazhvu malara Cheiyum Thirumanam by K. Jamunarani
  
  Thank you.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: kik (@ 207.0.105.194) on: Wed Aug 7 01:57:52 EDT 2002
  
  "Being his own film SSR sings a sing in this film as follows:
  
  Tunbam Theeratho?"
  
  Indeed, one can safely say that thunbam theerNthuvittathu:-) KVM seems to have indulged actors who wanted to sing like J, SSR, others???
  
  poo mudippathum (veerakkanal) evokes the same mood as kaattukkuLLE thiruvizha, maanaattam, poo uRanguthu pozhuthum uRanguthu etc. I thought this was a Devar films movie when I heard this song the first time. But, it is by MK's Mekala pictures. Also had Nambiar - in fact, siriththu koNdE irukka vENdum is picturized at Nambiar's court (he is a king) with some hindi iRakkumadhi actress dancing.
  
  
• From: ravi (@ 210.187.11.122) on: Mon Aug 12 13:10:01 EDT 2002
  
  manisegaran,
  so far you have discussed following movies
  
  year / movie/ directors
  1952
  kumari-r.padmanaban
  
  1953
  nalvar
  madhanamohini
  rohini
  
  1954
  koondukili-t.r.ramanna
  nallakalam
  mangalyam
  
  1955
  aasai anna arumai thamby
  town bus-k.somu
  pennarasi-k.somu
  mullaivanam
  
  1956
  thaikku pin tharam-m.a.thirumugam
  never discuused
  moondru pengal-r.s.pragash
  
  1957
  makkalai petra maharasi-k.somu
  neelai malai thirudan-m.a.thirumugam
  mudhalali-v.seenivasan
  never discuused
  rajarajan-t.v.sundram
  
  1958
  samboorna ramayanam-k.somu
  periya koyil
  nalla idathu sammandham
  thai piranthal vazhi pirakkum-a.k.velan
  sengaottai singam-m.a.thirumugam
  manamulla marutharam
  bommai kalyanam-r.m.krishnasamy
  pillai kaniyamuthu
  thirudargal jakkirathai
  never discussed
  neelavukku niranja manasu-k.somu
  
  1959
  abalai anjugam
  panjali
  madhavi-krishnarao
  alli petra pillai
  vannakili-t.r.ragunath
  engal kuladevi
  sollu tamby sollu
  u.t.vantham seivom
  vazha vaitha deivam-m.a.thirumugam
  nalu veli nilam-v.seenivasan
  
  never discussed
  tayai pola pillai noolai pola selai-b.r.bandulu
  kaveriyin kanavan
  
  1960
  aada vantha deivam-p.neelakandan
  engal selvi
  kaithi kannayiram-a.s.a.samy
  sivagami
  thangam manasu thangam
  tangarathinam-ssr
  tanthaikku pin thanayan
  yanai pagan-m.a.thirumugam
  ponni thirunal-a.k.velan
  mahaletchumi
  veerakanal - g.k.ramu
  never discussed
  pavai vilakku-k.somu
  
  1961
  kongu nattu tangam-m.a.thirumugam
  thai sollai tattaty-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1962
  vadivukku valaikappu-apn
  tayai katha tanayan-m.a.thirumugam
  kudumba talaivan-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1963
  tarmam talai kakkum-m.a.thirumugam
  nethikku pin pasam-m.a.thirumugam
  kulamagal rathai-apn
  
  1964
  navarathiri-apn
  vettaikaran-m.a.thirumugam
  thozhilali-ma.thirumugam
  
  1965
  kannithai-m.a.thirumugam
  thiruvilayadal-apn
  veera abimanyu-madhusoothanan
  
  1966
  saraswathy sabatham-apn
  mahakavi kalidass-r.r.chnadran
  mugarasi-m.a.thirumugam
  tanipiravi-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1967
  kanthan karunai-apn
  thiruvarut chelver-apn
  thaikku talaimagan-m.a.thirumugam
  vivasayee-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1968
  thillana mohanambal-apn
  thirumal perumai-apn
  ter thiruvizha-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1969
  kadhal vaganam-m.a.thirumugam
  
  1972
  nalla neram-m.a.thirumugam
  adhi parasakthi-k.s.gobalakrishnan
  
  will you plz tell me the directors for above movies and include directors name in your next discussion.so we can get full details on the movies.
  
  
  
• From: Manisegaran (@ 161.142.2.11) on: Tue Aug 13 00:39:48 EDT 2002
  
  Ravi,
  
  You seem to have taken so much trouble to list the films I have discussed. My main area of discussion is music. Of course I had touched on the directors when I felt there was a need. I do not intend to give the details you have asked. I am sure there would be knowledgeble people around to supply what you are looking for.
  
  Under your list of never discussed, I have discussed all except Rajarajan and Paavai Vilakku. THe MGR and Sivaji movies (other than Devar and APN movies)I intend to discuss separately when I have the time.
  
  Thank you.
  Manisegaran
  
  
• From: Rgpm Sundar (@ ) on: Mon Aug 26 06:47:32 EDT 2002
  
  Manisekharan,
  
  What about Veesu thendraley veesu(Kavignar Puthaneri Subramaniam), En sirithai ennai parthu (fantastic Pahadi piece) from Ponni thirunal? How can you miss these?
  
  
• From: Vasan (@ 163.1.103.124) on: Tue Aug 27 12:02:33 EDT 2002
  
  > Then comes a song where KVM uses Veena to the
  > maximum benefit of the listeners. This is a
  > masterpiece of KVM:
  
  of course, i wonder if it is sahAnA rAgam
  
  > P.B S- Antha Malaithen Ithuvena Malaithen
  
  "antha malaithen ithuvena malaithen"
  is an example of "madakku aNi" in Tamil literature
  
  madakku = folding, repeating
  aNi = figure of speech
  When you fold a thundu into two, you place one half on top of the other, like a mirror image, but the two halves are not the same. Similarly, in madakku aNi, a word is repeated, but with different meanings.
  
  Kannadasan could have "borrowed" and enhanced it from Bharathidasan, who said:
  "thamizh padithen ena naan padithen"
  Tamil is (as sweet as) a pint (padi) of honey (then), so i read it (padithen).
  
  The malai+then idea of Kannadasan could have come from that! There are some finer points in "malaithen ivarena malaithen"...
  
  1. PS sings "ivarena" instead of "ivanena"...
  could be because of the Tamil culture where the wife calls her husband with respect (at least in front of others, what happens in private is a different cuppa tea!)
  
  2. "ivar" could be because in the song she adores the man, she compares him to "honey from the mountain", which is the best and the sweetest.
  
  3. PBS sings "idhuvena" instead of "ivaLena"...
  I don't know if this is a mistake or deliberate
  
  4. PS then sings "Malarthen Pol Naanum Malarnthen"
  I don't think purists would call this "madakku aNi" because malarthen *is* different from "malarnthen".
  
  sorry to bore you guys, thanks for reading!
  
  Vasan
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ 161.150.2.250) on: Tue Aug 27 13:19:26 EDT 2002
  
  Vasan thanks for the education on "madakku aNi" - informative posting.
  
  
• From: Subbu (@ 216.52.49.5) on: Wed Aug 28 02:03:29 EDT 2002
  
  Vasan its really impressive piece of sharing from you. Gr8
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.3.10) on: Wed Aug 28 04:47:36 EDT 2002
  
  Vasan:
  
  Interesting info.
  Regarding item 3...
  
  In TN villages, isn't it common to use the 'idhu'
  'adhu' approach when referring to girls? For example someone may ask..
  unga poNNu enna padichchirukku?
  as opposed to
  unga poNNu enna padichchirukkAL?
  
  
• From: Vasan (@ 163.1.103.124) on: Wed Aug 28 10:57:43 EDT 2002
  
  sk, you are right.
  
  Aside, I would argue that this reflects the lower status of women in South Asia (in general), and Tamils are sadly no exception I suppose.
  
  "idhu" is "onRan pAl" (singular neutral gender) and "ivaL" is "peN pAl". Using "it" to denote a woman is demeaning, and modern poets should avoid this in their songs. If educated poets don't follow it themselves, what can we do about villagers?
  
  Another example to illustrate the need to reform Tamil is the classical "oruvan-oruththi" debate. I will give you two examples, one classical, and one from TFM.
  
  Classical
  ---------
  
  In the great work "thiruvAsagam", there is a poem(no. 459) called "arutpaththu" which was composed in praise of Lord Shiva in the temple of thiruppenrundhuRai. It is "ezhu sIr kazhi nediladi Asiriya viruththappA", so it has 7 sIr in each line and let us focus on the first word of the first three lines...
  
  niruththanE nimalA nIRRanE neRRik
  kaNNanE viNNulOr piRanE
  oruththane unnai Olam-ittu alaRi
  ulagelAm thediyum kANEn
  thiruththamAm poygaith thirupperun dhuRaiyil
  sezhumalark kurundhamE viyachIr...
  
  "oruththane" is clearly used by the poet to rhyme with "niruththane" and "thiruththamAm".
  
  In fact, it need not have been "oruththane", it could have been "oruvane". It would not have seriously affected the rhyme (because the second syllable "ru" is still common so "ethukai" is not compromised). It wouldn't have affected the meter (asiriyappA is not as rigid as veNpaa, for example) or meaning (some of you may feel that oruththane emphasises God better, but see the next counter-example).
  
  TFM
  ---
  
  A modern example to illustrate the equivalence of "oruvan" and "oruththan" is from TFM (Superstar's song!):
  
  "oruvan oruvan mudhalaaLi
  ulagil matRRavan thozhilALi..."
  
  Here the poet is more interested in end rhyme, so "oruvan" could well have been "oruththan".
  
  In both songs, "oruvan" and "oruththan" denote God, and are (as a matter of choice) interchangeable.
  
  The trouble with oruvaL
  -----------------------
  
  Now, what about "oruvaL" and "oruththi"? One would logically expect that we have the same structure for "peN pAl" right? Still, for reasons that fail to convince me, "oruvaL" does not exist in Tamil!
  
  I wonder what poets would do if they want to write a similar poem on "sakthi" instead of "shiva".
  
  Extrapolating this further, "mudhalvan" and "thamizhan" exist, but "mudhalvi" and "thamizhi" are rare. People have still not accepted these words. May be it is time poets did something about it.
  
  Again, sincere apologies for crossing the line from simple appreciation of film music (which is what this forum is about), to literary nuances. I got encouraged and carried away by positive feedback ;)
  
  Vasan
  
  
• From: Vasan (@ 163.1.103.124) on: Wed Aug 28 11:35:28 EDT 2002
  
  as we are discussing K V Mahadevan, perhaps an appropriate song that relates to my example is
  "oruththi oruvanai ninaiththuvittAl..."
  
  Vasan
  
  

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