Topic started by James (@ ppp-64.ts-10.nyc.idt.net) on Thu Oct 9 22:14:06 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: James (@ ppp-64.ts-10.nyc.idt.net)
on: Thu Oct 9 22:23:27 EDT 1997
I can think of a few:
Maanamadurai .....oo la la la (from MinsaaraK)
Vennilave (MK)
all the songs from INDIAN
Ennavale (Kadalan)
Mukkabala (K)
ottagathai kattiko (Gentleman)
What I mean is that the visuals are pleasing, not necessarily well picturised in terms of the storyline (Except perhaps Vennilave from MK)please add your preferences.
- From: aruLarasan (@ bh33404.umsl.edu)
on: Fri Oct 10 13:29:23 EDT 1997
You must have a great sense of humor to list Indian. Except for
pachchai kiLigaL thOLOdu
all others songs were gaudy. especially that third rated graphics where
kamalahAsan turns into kazhugu, puli, singam etc. I was embarassed
to watch that scene and felt like throwing up. (Another question,
Sydney opera house-aik kANbiththu En melbourne malarpOl melliya
magaLA endRU kEtkindRArgaL?)
The starting piece of yennuLLE was picturized excellently. The
dance sequences were erotic but not vulgar. The song was a feast for
ears and eyes (but many a times it sends you in a downer and hence
avoiding listening/watching it is good for the cheer).
- From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27)
on: Fri Oct 10 15:33:08 EDT 1997
Here are some songs which I feel are very well picturised:
1)kaadhal rojaavE in "Roja":
2)Athadi ammadi thEnmottu dhaan in "Idhayathai thirudathE"
3)anjali anjali anjali in "Anjali"
4)thendral vandhu theendrum podhu in "Avatharam"
5)Oh..butterfly in "Meera"
6)chinna chinna vanna kuyil in "Mouna Raagam"
7)vandhal vandhal rajakumari in "Oru oorla oru Raajakumari"(you should ignore bhagyaraaj's konashtais)
8)appanendrum ammaiyendrum in "Guna"
9)valaiosai kalakalvena in "Sathya"
10)nilakayum neram saranam in "Chembaruthi"
- From: Idhayan (@ socks7d.raleigh.ibm.com)
on: Fri Oct 10 15:53:27 EDT 1997
mY LIST:
1.Senthamizh then mozhiyaal..
2. Thoongatha kann endru onru...
3. paatu pada vaa, paarthu pesa vaa..
4. Ullamellam thalladudhe...- Thoorathu idi muzhakam.
5. Roja pooo aadi vandhathu.. - Agni Natchathram.
6. Pon maane nilladi..ah aha..- urimai geetham.
7. Thendral vandhu theendum bothu.. - Avatharam.
8. Kalla thanamaka kannam vaith.. -Ulle velliye.
9. Potri paadadi penne - Devar magan.
10. malara mounama ... - karna.
11. Chikku bhukku - Gentleman
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-te65.proxy.aol.com)
on: Fri Oct 10 18:34:05 EDT 1997
How about Kannaalanae in Bombay?
- From: vaidy (@ kcpxy4.att.com)
on: Fri Oct 10 21:11:27 EDT 1997
The one song I like is:
Mella siriththal aval thulli ...adhu dhaan magic.
This song has lot of good visuals and it reminds me of the regal sottu neelam ad by PC Sriram.
Another one is from a vijaykanth, banupriya movie
(shatriyan ?):
Punnagaiyil minsaram ...
The above song was sung by IR & SJ.
If you talk about really pleasing visuals, my picks are:
Enna saththam indha neram
Poon katru puthithaanadhu
Panneeril nanaintha poookkal mella sirikka
Paruvame pudhiya paadal paaadu
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Sat Oct 11 02:40:59 EDT 1997
aruLarasan - I am unable to accept your criticism of Indian songs. On the contrary they were very well picturised and were in fact one of the redeeming factors of the movie, besides Kamal's make-up. I agree that Kamal seemed a bit too old for some of the sequences, but that is not the argument here. Again IMO, the transformation scenes were quite well done - compare these with those from Vikram (Now those scenes are worth throwing up for - anavasiyama waste pannureingaley!) As for singing part of Melbourne Malar in Sydney, I don't find anything wrong. It is a varnanei song and the Melbourne malar is just one description of the girl. (As a side remark, I sensed trouble and angry reaction from IR fans, once I noticed there was not a single song listed by James that is by IR - How dare you, James? :-))))
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Sat Oct 11 09:58:01 EDT 1997
vaidy: punnagayil minsaaram is from barathan.
NOV: IR enna camerAvA handle pannaraar?
- From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27)
on: Sat Oct 11 12:58:13 EDT 1997
NOV:
In general, you cannot blame IR fans like that. I am an IR fan. But I have listed the song from Roja ("kadhal rojave - very pleasant song") as first in my list. In fact, you are a theevira ARR fan.
- From: Kitcha (@ cse-211-h05.circa.ufl.edu)
on: Sun Oct 12 13:19:07 EDT 1997
Koncham Nilavu --- Great work by PC
Maargazhi Poove --- Again PC
NOV: ARR'kku macham...adhan all his songs get to be so well picturised..and turn out to be hits too.
Amongst IR numbers.....
Raakamma Kaiya thattu......
Valai Osai kala kala......
Kanmani anbodu-----Guna to name a few....
Kaadhalin deepam onru....Thambikku entha ooru
(Not many may agree,but I think the picturisation matched the mood of the song perfectly and of course there was Rajni :-)))
***One of IR's best songs picturised in the worst possible way...." Pani vizhum malarvanam " ****
(sob....sob...)
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Sun Oct 12 16:13:18 EDT 1997
Nov,
I don't understand how you sense IR fans who criticize song picturization.
I have not seen many ARR movies (only rOjA, muththu, indhiyan).
So most TFM matters I like happen to be IR related. You might have seen
me criticizing IR in some threads. One THING I really hate in ARR songs
is diamaNdu.
kitchA,
I agree. kAdhalin dhIpam onru was extremely well picturized. I, my
cousins and mAmAs never missed a chance to watch that song.
How about azhagiyE kaNNE uRavugaL nIyE? Excellent sequence.
More later.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Mon Oct 13 03:40:57 EDT 1997
Ravi, cp, Kitcha, aruLarasan - Yein yennai yaarum purinthukolla maatteereengeh? The piece I wrote on James not listing any ARR song, was done tongue-in-cheek. Come on guys - give yourselves a break and laugh - sometimes! Now cp calls me a theevira ARR fan. If I was, I won't be ashamed to admit it, okay? cp - Based on your posting on Deva's discussion, would you be offended if I called you a in-the-closet Deva fan? I hope not (please laugh! :-)))))
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Mon Oct 13 12:05:33 EDT 1997
Nov. I can't accept that. I AM the in-the closet/out of the
closet dhEvA fan. call me, if you like, dp.
Anyways, another song which was well picturized was
dhEvanE, ennaip pArungaL endhan pAvangaL thammai vAngik koLLungaL
shivAji kIsiduvAn. (Especially, the one blow with which he kills
that fellow in that movie - bhayangaramAna uNarchigaLai avar
mugaththil pArkkalAm. that manushan is an encyclopeadia of action.)
cheers.
- From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27)
on: Mon Oct 13 12:31:09 EDT 1997
NOV:
Sari. In-the-closet, out-of-the-box ellam vendaam. Neenga IR fanunnu solreenga! En ARR & Deva songsai comment adichcha ungalukku pidikkalai? I agree with Arularasan, all songs in Indian cannot be termed very good in picturisation. I was not able to appreciate "Maya Machindra" because it is just like an ordinary disco dance in any movie with all the getup and settings - no big deal. Yes, "telephone mani pOl" & "Pachai kiLigal" were very good. In fact, out of the songs James had mentioned only "all songs from INDIAN" did not tally with the list. Except that others are really good in cinematography. I would not deny that.
Maniratnam and KunjumOn really do well when it comes to picturizing the songs.
- From: Pudiyavan (@ anc04.mcit.com)
on: Mon Oct 13 16:10:45 EDT 1997
I can think of the following songs:
1) Adho Andha Paravai (For the 60's)
Movie: Aayirathil Oruvan
Music: MSV
2) Yeh Paadal Onru ( For 70's. I believe it was released in 1979)
Movie: Priya
Music: IR
3) Paruvamey Pudiya ( For 80's. I think it was released in 1981)
Movie: Nenjaththai Killadey
Music: IR
4) Chandralekha... (For 90's)
Movie: Thiruda Thiruda
Music: ARR
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Tue Oct 14 04:59:11 EDT 1997
aruLarasan - Mannikkanum thalaiva, neenga yenna solla vareengehnu yenakku thieriyavilleiyey! :-)
cp - "pidikallai" is not quite right! Yennai vittal nobody else seems to come out to support these guys! One more thing is that if all of us agree on everything, there can be no room for discussion. But all these explanations doesn't change my opinion on the good picturisation of Indian songs. Appuram yenna soneengeh? Maya machindra like a disco dance!?! Jesus H. Christ. Isn't there any justice in the world?!?!?!
Inthe sambantham unmaiyil yenakku puriyavilleh! I am really flabbergasted :-)
- From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com)
on: Tue Oct 14 13:15:24 EDT 1997
What about 'kappaleri poyachchu' from Indian?. It had about 5000 'extras' and you know how difficult it is to chreograph 5000 people. I think the director, chreographer and the cameraman did a very good job in that song.
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Tue Oct 14 23:08:07 EDT 1997
I too feel that the expensive picturisation of Indian songs turned out to be cheap looking. kappal ERip pOyAchchu was an exception. The picturisation for all other songs were bad.
pachchaik kiLigaL - Nonsense all over. If you analyse each sequence in those songs, you can understand how stupid they are. Good song spoiled.
thadA - vetti selavu. Not pleasing. Not irritating either.
telephOn maNi - Would have been OK otherwise, but Kamal spoiled the show. I cannot digest Kamal dancing on the streets after movies like mahAnathi and kuruthippunal. With guys like Ajit, Arjun, Prabhu etc the song would have looked OK. The helicopter shot of the steel bridge was terrific. Shankar explained how he did it on SunTV during 97 pongkal. They had really toiled.
mAyA machchindrA - worst of the lot. No words to describe how cheap it was. Another OK song spoiled.
- From: pg (@ igw2.merck.com)
on: Wed Oct 15 09:30:32 EDT 1997
The theme of mAya machindrA is copied from Michael Jackson's Remember the Time music video (which also starred Magic Johnson and Eddie Murphy). Needless to say MJ's version was much better with much superior graphics.
- From: pg (@ igw2.merck.com)
on: Wed Oct 15 09:56:51 EDT 1997
About kappalERi poyAchu :
Effort does not equal artistic excellence. Just bcos there were 5000 extras and Shankar did a lot of work does not make this a great song.
A really well-picturised song :
sendhoorap poove from 16 Vayathinile : what a song ! and what a picturisation ! This is a song which rises above the flashy photography type song and lingers on your mind for eternity.
Other well picturised songs which go beyond just good photography/choreography :
sendhaazham poovil vandhaadum thendral - muLLum malarum
paruvame pudhiya pAdal pAdu - nenjathai kiLLathe
poovaNNam pola nenjam - azhiyAdha kolangal
en vAnile orE veNNila - Johnny
vizhiyil vizhundhu - alaigal oyvathillai
sippi irukkudhu - v.n.sigappu
kodai kAla kAtRE - panneer pushpangal
Love Theme - punnagai mannan
muthukaLo kangal - nenjirukkum varai (Sivaji's smouldering passion !)
As evident above, for me, it takes more than just good photography and breakdance to make a great song.
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Wed Oct 15 12:10:02 EDT 1997
That' my point also, pg. Just a good film and million dollars computer
doesn't make a good picturization. About kapplERip pOyAchu (similarly
sundhari kaNNAl oru sEdhi) it was extreme inefficiency on the part
of the director to use such numbers of subjects to give the pathetic effect
that they turned out to be.
I was thinking about senthAzham pUvil vandhAdum thendRal but you
munthified. How about idhu oru ponmAlaip pozhudhu?
- From: pg (@ igw2.merck.com)
on: Wed Oct 15 13:01:04 EDT 1997
Yes idhu oru ponmAlaip pozhudhu is another great song. The ambience of the song is beautifully photographed. A magical song by IR-BR-VM !
- From: Bhaskar (@ algw2.lucent.com)
on: Thu Oct 16 22:18:56 EDT 1997
Can anyone give me the reason why Manirathnam picturised the song Narumugaye Narumugaye in both Color and White & Black. Did someone notice that ? I was thinking of a reason for that but not sure!
I think MR did it purposefully with a reason.
BTW, I liked the Vennilave song in Iruvar with the Taj Mahal background very much.
- From: Nisa (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Fri Oct 17 07:33:01 EDT 1997
Hey, I noticed the colour cum B&W pproach for Narumugaye too.
Presumed it was done to differentiate between the reel world and real world in the movie - make sense?
Can't think of any other reasons!
Umm. I think Sivappu Loelahkku ..(kadhal kottai?) had superb kahtchikal.
- From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com)
on: Fri Oct 17 08:38:44 EDT 1997
PG: When I listened to KappalEri poyachchu I thought it would be just another ARR break-dance number but when I saw the movie I was suprised. The dance was not all that 'breaking'. Even at the far corner of the screen (if you care to look that closely) the dance steps of those 'extras' are consistent with those in the focussed area which in my opinion is commendable.
- From: Kitcha (@ dhcp232-184.eel.ufl.edu)
on: Fri Oct 17 17:25:05 EDT 1997
Almost all of Manirathnams movies have a song picturised in slow motion.....And its done great!
1. Kannai katti kollathe--Iruvar
2. Athadi ammaadi -- Idhayathai thirudathe
3. kattukuyil manasukulle-- Dalapathi
4. Anjali anjali-- Anjali
5. Oru poonkavanam -- Agni....
6. Kadhal rojave-- Roja
7.putham pudhu bhoomi-- Thiruda Thiruda
I dont remember anymore!! :-)
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Fri Oct 17 21:27:03 EDT 1997
Although I have reserved my comments on aruLarasan, Aravind and pg's latest remarks, I stand firm in my conviction that Indian songs were very well picturised. I am happy to have found a comrade in Ravy, though! :-))
- From: pg (@ client-116-26.bellatlantic.net)
on: Sat Oct 18 08:12:43 EDT 1997
To NOV :
Don't reserve your comments. This is a discussion forum.
BTW, I hate most group dance songs whether it be IR-BR combination with vellai-udai devathais or ARR-MR with break dances
- From: Bhaskar (@ ihgw2.lucent.com)
on: Sun Oct 19 11:41:23 EDT 1997
Nisa:
You hit the bulls eye. I was thinking of the same reason for picturising the Narumugaiye song both in Color and B&W.
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Sun Oct 19 13:32:29 EDT 1997
Nisa:
sivappu lOlAkku kilunguthu kulunguthu
seemed to me to a pedophile chasing (stalking) an innocent small
girl. No offense. But's that's what i felt when i saw the
movie.
One pathetic aspect of some songs is: the location will be great,
like a waterfall in the background, or a beautiful monument like
tAj mahal, etc. and god-damned human being with gawdy dresses
and explicitly (but irritatingly vulgar)sexual meaning will be
dancing inthe foreground. Most of the time, i feel my sensibilities are
offended by these picturizations.
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Mon Oct 20 06:20:17 EDT 1997
pg - Frankly, I'm tired of repeating myself. There are some things that we cannot agree upon even if we were to argue till the cows come home. Arachchai maavei yethanei naalthaan araikirathu? Let's "fight" over something else, ok! :-)))
How about BR's devathai? Athu antha manushanoada trade-mark! Athei poai kurai sollreengaleh, ithu gniyayamaa? It doesn't affcet the movie in any way. BTW, have you noticed something peculiar in BR's movie titles? (Yes it's a quiz!)
aruLarasan - Ungalukku US exposure konjam athigamaachoa? Thamizh padathil paedophile-aa? Ha, ha, ha - that's a good one, bro!
- From: Nisa (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Mon Oct 20 08:55:45 EDT 1997
Gee and I thought sivappu lolakku was such an innocent song - at least there weren't the usual lolitas and awful third-rate lambadas in this song.
Frankly, i don't see anything `pedofile' about it - even the verses seem be `clean' with no sub-texts to them..(uhh, don't bother to enlighten me if I'm wrong - I want to enjoy this song in future!)
One other beautifully picturised song is Raja rajathi raja (akni natchathiram) - the lighting trick has since become aracha mahvu.
- From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com)
on: Mon Oct 20 09:01:48 EDT 1997
NOV: ippo neenga iru thalai koLLi erumba thavaikka poreenga. This is regarding BR's white saree devadhais. Asked about Indian Songs, BR commented negatively about using graphics, morphing etc and the guy who was instrumental behind the Indian songs (i can't recollect his name) retorted back ' How long do we have to shoot songs with vellai dress devadhais?'.
There is nothing wrong in having a trade-mark. But you have to switch to some thing new when people get tired of your trade-marks.
- From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9)
on: Mon Oct 20 23:28:11 EDT 1997
NOV
What is peculiar about BR's titles? I think they have BR's 'en iniya thamizh makkaLE' to begin with.
- From: Nisa (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Oct 22 00:40:48 EDT 1997
NOV
Are you going to shed some light on BR's titles? Vidai thaeriyahmal aenakku thalai vaedithu vidum pola irukku...;-(
Is it something to do with the kirama mahnam (smell) ?
- From: Nisa (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Oct 22 00:41:04 EDT 1997
NOV
Are you going to shed some light on BR's titles? Vidai thaeriyahmal aenakku thalai vaedithu vidum pola irukku...;-(
Is it something to do with the kirama mahnam (smell) ?
- From: Nisa (@ passport.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Oct 22 00:42:24 EDT 1997
Please ignore my second posting - our server goes cuckoo once in a while....
- From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10)
on: Wed Oct 22 03:20:30 EDT 1997
Aravind & Nisa - Before I begin about BR's "peculiarity" in naming his movies, munkootiyey naan mannipu keittukolgirein - for digressing from the topic.
BR had hit upon a new way of naming his movies (title). I am not sure when he started this, but it has been apparent from Alaigal Voivathillai. You see he puts his name before the title and together they would have a complete meaning. First example is:
Bharathiraajavin alaigal voivathillei meaning he is constantly flourishing!
When he first used Sivaji, he had utmost respect for him and included this in his title:
Bharathiraajavin muthal mariyaathei
Needless to say, it continued with movies such as:
Bharathiraajavin kadaloara kavithaigal.
The fun began when he and IR parted ways. You know what the next movie was?
Bharathiraajavin kodi parakkuthu ! But unfortunately, it didn't.
Another interesting one was when he returned to IR again. This time the poster included IR's name and became:
Bharathiraajavin (en) uyir thoazhan Ilayaraaja - the irony of it!
The above are not figments of my imagination but was created by BR by design. Have fun with his other movie titles!
- From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com)
on: Wed Oct 22 07:43:38 EDT 1997
'Bharathirajavin Vaalibamae Vaa Vaa' sounds nice(!).
'Bharathirajavin 16 vayadhinilae' sounds even better.
- From: Kitcha (@ dhcp232-184.eel.ufl.edu)
on: Wed Oct 22 16:53:02 EDT 1997
How do you explain this,annathey?
BharathiRajavin Captain Magal !!
Just curious!!!!
:-))
- From: ananth (@ proxy2-external.mntp1.il.home.com)
on: Tue Nov 9 00:14:25 EST 1999
so, Nisa, this is how you spend your time in Lucent Technologies, huh!! no wonder lucent is delaying their product deliveries...just kidding!!! ....wanted to pull your legs coz i used to work for lucent...so, had to say something.
NOV,
how about BharathiRajavin sihaPu rojAKal?
or Niram MArAtha pUKazhl? (oops!! i'm not sure if i spelt that right)...anyways NOV, i should admit u r too deep :))
-ananth
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