Topic started by rjay (@ 206.152.113.140) on Thu Aug 24 12:45:43 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Composing Secrets - Tracks and Instruments
Most songs have the following structure:(you can
think of them as parallel tracks)
1. Melody
2. Bass
3. Chord/Accompaniment
4. Drums
5. Percussion
Melody is sung by the singer or could be the
'solo' played by an instrument, when singer
is taking breath. In most music,
melody states the theme of the song/composition
and carries the emotion. All the other tracks
should provide a context to what is says or
reinforce and enhance it.
Human voice, flute, sax, trumpet, and synthetic
sounds serve well as melody instruments.
Drums set the basic pulse and rhythm and there
are many drum kits: acoustic, jazz, techno(used
in ;chandralekha - Thiruda; for example), power
(pottu vaitha kadhal thittam) and many many more.
Bass is usually played by a double bass - huge
violin, plucked like a guitar, or with a guitar
itself. With electronics, synth bass sounds are
generated from keyboard itself(kadalikkum pennin
kaigal - has a wonderful synth bass sound
in its intro.) Slap, Electric, Fretless,
are a few more common sounds. I will get you
recordings of these in isolation.
Accompaniment or backing is usually provided
by piano or guitar class of instruments.
And there are two types: block chords, where
you play the whole chords and hold them,
versus arpeggio and broken chords where
you strike the notes one after another.
In most western music, piano and guitar
are 2 pieces of the five piece orchestra
(voice, piano, guitar, strings, drums)
Strings typically provide counterpoint,
but can also play accompaniment.
My definition, Counterpoint is nothing but alternate melody
which either responds to the lead melody
or plays against it. Examples to follow.
Percussion is the name given by westerners
to all non-western beat instruments! ;)
Shakers, Morocos (chicku chiku) and sticks
and claves and others are examples.
Even bongos (from Africa) and our Tabla are
named percussion, but they are actually
drums because they can play alone and provide
rhythm without the drums.
We can proceed learning in two ways:
(i) We will explore the General midi sounds
128 instruments (16 categories and 8 in each)
and one drum kit. We will take each sound one
by one and learn to identify it and see what
its unique value is and how it has been used
in TFM. I can upload audio demos.
(ii) We can later see the song structure along time
axis (measures) - in terms of intro, theme, break, pallavi
, charanam structure and learn how orchestration
is effectively varied to serve the needs of
the listener at each position.
Basically, tracks and measures are the two
dimensions to understand a composition.
As an aid we can pull apart some famous songs of your choice to see how they are put together. And I can take one of my own compositions and share what thoughts and decisions guided its creation.
Game?
Here is a link to the tutorial that RJay has prepared:
Melody Making Exercise.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 67.83.146.59)
on: Tue May 20 13:23:44 EDT 2003
Coming to think of it, Subrabhaham has lot of interesting phrases that makes it interesting. One point a phrase sounds like "dapaankuthu"
- From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 67.83.146.59)
on: Tue May 20 13:26:41 EDT 2003
In fact, "Vellai Pookal" from Kannathil Muthamitaal matches "Kaulsalyaa sup..."
Vellai pookal ..... Malargavae....
Kaulsalyaa sup.. thae...
- From: vijay (@ 68.51.215.28)
on: Tue May 20 22:33:26 EDT 2003
rjay, your "resolution" analysis of melodies is quite good. Pl continue to give more examples. As for lines bearing similiar sandham yet tuned differently, here are a couple of examples which MS and myself had discussed long time back. I am not sure if he has mentioned it here already
"Chandrodayam oru pennaanadho" and "Poove ilaya poove"
In the former the lines in the charam
"kulir kaatru killaadha malarallavo
kili vandhu koththaadha kani allavao
nizhal megam thazhuvaadha nilamallavo
nenjodu nee sertha porullallavo
.........."
and so on..Note all the lines bearing similiar sandhams (which can be expressed roughly in sandham phrases as "thanaNaana thanaNaana thana-naananaa")
and yet each one of them tuned differently. The final words in each of the lines end on higher and higher notes and in the last line the "resolution" is made and it is rounded off to hand it back to the pallavi..
In "Poove ilaya poove" its similiar too
charanam:
"kuzal valarndhu alaiyaanadhe
vizhi irandum kadalaanadhe
enadhu manam padagaanadhe..
" and so on.
thana-na-nana thana-naa-nanaa
is what is repeated for all the 6 lines in the charanam. Yet every line has beautiful twists and variations differing from each other and the final line ending with a short brigha phrase to link it with the Anupallavi and then the Pallavi refrain.
Just 2 examples from 2 different but great minds.
- From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 67.83.146.59)
on: Wed May 21 05:26:16 EDT 2003
Vijay,
It is amazing that we happened to analyze the sam e song. "Poovae ILaiya Poove" was oen of the first sonsg that caught my attention when I started analyzing Chandams (long time agho).
RJAY had clarified once that this entire charanam is from a folk-song used intact by Raja.
- From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50)
on: Wed May 21 12:01:10 EDT 2003
Sridhar, which folk song is it? Are you talking about the tune or the sandham?
- From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 192.147.58.6)
on: Wed May 21 14:20:08 EDT 2003
Tune and sandham. Lyrics replaced. RJAY knows. Raja built a good pallavi and orchestration.
- From: thoppai (@ 152.3.193.105)
on: Wed May 21 17:26:48 EDT 2003
"poove ilaya poove" charanam tune is a thaalatu sung by IR's mother...he mentioned this (and also hummed the original) in one of his live shows...it is available on Raajangahm....
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Wed May 21 18:09:40 EDT 2003
The folk song is a famous one:
Maaman adhitharo Malligai poo chendaalae
Athai adhitharo allippooo thandalae
and is set to Neelambari (right?). This is the tune used for the charanam of poovae.
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Wed May 21 18:17:52 EDT 2003
Vijay,
There are many many MSV and KVM songs with the same chandam used throughout the song - even for pallavi and charanam.
These were songs written by Kavignar before being used for movies.
Here are a few:
1. Paalum pazhamum kaigalil aendhi
2. Ennai yaar endru enni enni
And there are many that use one chandam for pallavi stanza and one for the charanam as in:
Satti suttadhada
These are very good for learning how to use melodic positions for emotions and also we can
learn a lot from MSV's ingenuity in working around this limitation and you do not realize it is the same chandam throughout.
Another kind of experiment Kavignar done in his early film days is to limit himself to short phrases -
2-seer adi etc.
Eg:
Maambazhathu vandu
See how VR make an interesting tune out of this monotonous phrase structure!
In fact there are many songs using this same chandam -
Veeduvarai uravu
Paesuvadhu kiliyaa
Listening to them you can see how much variety you can create!
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123)
on: Wed May 21 18:21:23 EDT 2003
The lesson from all this is that, by limiting all composing parameters except one, you force your brain to develop best strategies in that one.
Much like how science isolates a problem to be studied into an experiment with just one control parameter...
And the ability to get an answer is nothing but the ability to specify the problem in the right way. If you can fix your goal to one (small) thing and keep your focus, you can find answer immediately.
- From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50)
on: Wed May 21 18:45:53 EDT 2003
rjay , interesting that you mention the "Maambazhathu vandu" sandham. Recently in the Isaipayanam programme in JayaTV MSV was talking about the similiarity of sandhams and sang "Maambazhathu vandu" with Pesuvadhu kiliya's lyrics and then sang the latter in "Veedu varai Uravu"s lyrics, just the opening lines. And then he ended it by singing the tune of Chinna Chinna aasai in "Veedu varai uravu"s lyrics much to the amusement of SPB who was the guest in that show.
- From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.232)
on: Wed May 21 19:27:43 EDT 2003
some more interchangeable sandham pairs:
"Thooliyilae aada vandha" and "Kuyiluk kuppam kuyiluk kuppam"
"Oru thangarathathil pon manjal nilavu" and "Oru manjak kuruvi en nenjaith thazhuvi"
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.121)
on: Wed May 21 22:05:20 EDT 2003
vijay, there are actually fewer patterns that are
being used over again, just like any conversation reuses words in new combinations, and we feel new things are being talked about.
The only difference is, we learn words in isolation and so we are quickly able to analyze a conversation in terms of the words, but since we do not learn to label the chandam patterns, into unique 'words' or building blocks, we are not able to quickly analyze music and see its constituents.
Just like most of us amateurs have ability to identify and name raga or scale combinations, these composers can identify and name chandam combinations, instrumental combinations, etc.
In order to see the chandams, we have to forget first the mood and the lyrics and then we can begin to see the patterns. Clapping out the song's melody is a simple abstracting tool. Counting on fingers is another.
- From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.121)
on: Wed May 21 22:11:28 EDT 2003
Udhaya can add, but lyric writers also think and feel in terms of idioms, combination of ideas, metaphors and rhymes, that a lay person would not use.
These intermediate patterns are what help a composer remember and manipulate pieces of music in a clean way. GKV once told about Raja that he can recollect a music composed six months ago!
There is a story about Mozart's Total recall of
a church music. I will share it another day because it needs some time to write - I have lots of insight about it.
If you briefly show a chess board game to chess masters and novices, and then ask them to recollect, masters recollect 10 times more pieces than novices. But, this is only if the board positions are actual games. If you randomize the positions, their recollections are more or less equal!!
Cognitive psychologists have estimated that an expert in any area can label and identify and use in action at least 50,000 unique patterns. Raja and Rahman, add a zero!
Tomorrow, please remind me to share Mozart's feat.
- From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.112.46)
on: Thu May 22 12:54:22 EDT 2003
Cognitive psychologists have estimated that an expert in any area can label and identify and use in action at least 50,000 unique patterns. rjay: do you have any reference to the above statement? thanks.
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