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Is it healthy to compare the talents of two artists

Topic started by Seetharaman.S (@ 3.houston-18-19rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on Thu Oct 22 11:48:04 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,
Iam pretty much new. After seeing the forum this question arised in my mind.
I feel that each and every artist(here I mean MDs and lyricists) is unique and they have their own way of expressing themselves. Is it good to compare them?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Jun 12 11:55:57 EDT 2000
  
  Now that we have discussed how SPB does a job more impressive than KJY in the light music arena, I would like to discuss another aspect of film music in which both have experimented a lot. The genre I would like to discuss is "semi-classical" or "film-classical". The following songs have proved the greatness of KJY:
  
  (1) Sindhubhairavi - all songs
  (2) vEdham nee iniya naadham mee
  (3) adhisaya raagam
  (4) maanida sevai dhrogama
  (5) nee ondru thaanaa en sangeetham
  
  and innumerable songs in mallu which I dont want to discuss extensively as it would constitute digression. Some songs worth mentioning are:
  
  (1) Ramakatha gaanalayam - Bharatham - an absolute wonder -http://music.acmecity.com/flat/897/links/mallu/raamakatha.ram
  
  (2) saayandhanam - kamaladhaLam - http://music.acmecity.com/flat/897/links/mallu/saayandhanam.ram
  
  (3) thoo badi maasha allaah - his highness abdullah - http://music.acmecity.com/flat/897/links/mallu/thoobadi.ram
  
  (4) Pramadhavanam - form the same movie - an evergreen song.
  
  (5) Nakshathra dheepangaL - chiriyO chiri
  
  (6) shree vinaayakam - Bharatham
  
  (7) GopaanganEy aathmaavilE - Bharatham
  
  SPB has his own share of the great songs:
  
  (1) judu judu - from some kannada movie - fetched a national award for him
  (2) thakita thathimi
  (3) thangamE thamizukkillai
  (4) raagam thaanam pallavi - sankaraabaranam
  (5) aakaNulalO kalala naa cheli - a song in which SPB's rendition through agaaram is excellent - http://www.padmalekha.com/NerinaHera/Songs/Telugu/Aalapana/Aakanula.ram
  
  Now that I have proved my objectivity :-), I now take up the task of comparing these two greats once again for a song rendered by them in their mother tongues respectively (that means they have given their best :-).
  
  Sargam - a mallu movie - the sound track of which is a mile stone in MFM - had all the songs sung by Chitra and KJY. The Music director of this movie is Bombay ravi ( SL tells me that he was the MD of "chaudhvin kaa chaand"). One song "SangeethamE amara sallaapamE" set in raga natabhairavi (courtesy - RR) has been rendered soulfully by KJY in mallu. The chitta swaras are just in the right format to elevate the mood of the listener.
  
  The same song resung by SPB in telugu does not find an appreciation from me :-( The song lacks the vigour it had in the mallu version with SPB lacking the required "bhaavam" completely. When KJY sings, you easily get a feeling of him sitting before you with a couple of accompaniments and staging a concert. But the version of SPB is just a passing cloud. Does not rain on you the intimacy of the ragam.
  
  The pallavi ends with a long note of KJY where as SPB truncates it abruptly. the soul is ruptured :-(
  
  After listening to the above two versions, it is easy to notice that the mini aalaap that KJY does in the anupallavi (immly after the line "chathur mugan uNarnu" in mallu and "shivatha vihaaram" in telugu) has been totally linearized by SPB ! The extra load of mesmeric excitement that KJY imparts through that is absolutely lacking in SPB's version.
  
  and for the delivery of Swaras, need I say say that SPB sings as if they are just lyrics :-)
  
  Take a comparison of KJY and SPB in these songs !
  
  SPB : http://164.67.92.197/songs/Sarigamalu_Sangeethame.ram
  
  KJY : http://music.acmecity.com/flat/897/links/mallu/sangeethame.ram
  
  In the film carnatic genre SPB has to learn a lot more from KJY :-)
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ webcache.ccs.yorku.ca) on: Mon Jun 12 12:10:27 EDT 2000
  
  How can compare a guru and a student, MS? Afterall, KJY is a master in carnatic while SPB just about fakes his knowledge of the art. But considering SPB's position, I think he does an extremely commendable job. And have you noticed that even in carnatic songs, where KJY sounds rather unexpressive in his songs(in general), SPB shines. Take for example the songs 'Thakida thaka thimi' and 'ezhisai geethamae'.
  
  
• From: rest later (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Jun 12 12:15:42 EDT 2000
  
  MS: In the "film classical genre" have you made a compare/contrast study of KJY, PBS, and TMS too?
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ hoproxy2.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Jun 12 12:19:17 EDT 2000
  
  MS,
  "In the film carnatic genre SPB has to learn a lot more from KJY :-) "
  
  Would'nt that be obvious considering KJY's immense
  training in Carnatic .
  Your examples are good but it only reaffirms an universally accepted fact. SPB ca'nt be compared with KYJ in film carnatic genre. KJY is miles ahead.
  Just to extend the comparison ,I would say SPB has exhibited a wider bhaavam range than KYJ. In terms of expression, I think SPB scored big time(sometime he overdoes it like our nadigar thilagam. SL and I have had long telephonic coversation on this).
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Jun 12 12:21:42 EDT 2000
  
  aruvi: You have made an excellent point. KJY's bhaavam is the 'taught bhaavam' based on the raga/melody of the tune and totally ignores the saahithyam (lyrical composition) bhaavam. UK is another example of such an artist. SPB, due to the absence of training, lacks the training in the raaga bhaavam area but tries his level best based on his own interpretation. However, the second quality cannot be taught and you either have it or you don't. SPB has it (which is why he succeeds in all other varieties of film music) and KJY mostly doesn't exhibit posession.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Jun 12 12:34:23 EDT 2000
  
  appaada..pazaya aaLunga ellaam varaanga..objective 1 achieved :-) aduththathu adithadi thaan :-) Just kidding..
  
  G:
  
  no. I am interested mainly in SPB and KJY , though I do admire PBS a lot. No comments on TMS though I admire a few songs of his like paattum naanE :-)
  
  mmm.. Anand, universal fact. I do accept that it is a fact. But that does not diminish my enthu to compare the greats just for the pleasure of discussion and appreciation :-)
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Jun 12 12:48:07 EDT 2000
  
  My 5ps worth:
  
  Talking of “classical“ music abilities. IMHO, TMS is way ahead than KJY,
  
  Secondly the so-called carnatic abilities must be used in carnatic concerts, you know how TNS sings, when compared to KJY.
  
  The word “carnatic” does not have any relevance in Film form of music How do you feel about the word “classical based” instead of Carnatic?.
  
  Carnatic is a big term.
  Playing a C major scale in a violin is not western classical arrangement,
  Similarly A song in a known raga is not carnatic music,
  
  
  SPB’s abilities: he does great job in spite of not having formal training in carnatic music, good example is “Shakarabaranam”, simply superb, have you by any chance heard the song “nalathor vennai seithen “ in varumai neram sivapu, I can give you more than 1gb of examples here.
  
  Frankly in the field of carnatic music, being so much trained in carnatic music, KJY has to show more proficiency than what he is today.
  
  as people have mentioned above, SPB sings light music as light music, also he gives lots of (smooth) expressions to a song, Just hear the Telugu version of “va va anbe anbe” (Garshana) , compare both the lines “un vanam etc etc”, see the expression both of them give., IMHO, KJY literally struggles,
  
  SPB can sing any kind of song be it, fast light music, slow light, rocknroll based or slow melody or any dam form we know. KJY cannot do this, we (I) cannot take it if KJY sings “rum bum bum” , we can surely take if SBP sings kane kalai mane,
  
  I wish KJY sings light music as light music and carnatic music has carnatic music, nevertheless both of them have a great voice and have done lot to TFM.
  
  
• From: rajaG's kusumbu (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Jun 12 13:15:42 EDT 2000
  
  indha 'fan' ngaradhu yaaru? pudhusu pudhusaa yaaru vENumnaa vandhu post paNNidaraappaa? oru vivasthaiyE illaama pOyiduththu:-)))))
  
  
• From: fan (aka kandavan) (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Jun 12 13:25:13 EDT 2000
  
  amma, chinna pasanga ellam spb' yai titum podhu...
  fan enna (aka kandavan) -- tubelight, bulb, switch , moniter, keyboard, elli ...everything will start to post :)))))
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Jun 12 14:15:59 EDT 2000
  
  chinna pasanga pEsak koodaatha ? Is this forum only for old people ? In which case it is not a forum but an Ashram :-)
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Jun 12 14:28:23 EDT 2000
  
  ms, no one told...pEsak koodaadhu.., read the above lines until you understand.
  
  for your sake:
  
  actual: chinna pasanga ellam spb' yai titum podhu...
  
  your (conclusion):chinna pasanga pEsak koodaatha"...
  
  
  what can we do? --- similar to your great conclusion that spb has to learn to sing from KJY :)
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Jun 12 14:33:06 EDT 2000
  
  to save me from your counter I will be more specific :)
  
  
  similar to your great conclusion that spb has to learn to sing carnatic music from KJY
  
  
  
• From: oru rasigan (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Mon Jun 12 15:09:21 EDT 2000
  
  MS, glad you stated 'Carnatic film music', because God save those poor souls who hear KJY singing a Thyagaraja Keerthanai:))) SPB - only sahithyam based bhavam..incorrect , he ....consider also song movement irrespective of which raaga.Therefore, he dont care for raaga bhavam specifically and he is right in doin'. Tell me, MS all songs of KJY you listed, any song that is impossible to be sung by anybody (though KJY did great job). THose songs can be sung with suff. practice, not impossible. Try bringin' effect of 'naan ennum poluthu' even with lot of practice.....impossible!!!! yellam ulle irunthu varanum :)))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Jun 12 15:50:33 EDT 2000
  
  fan :
  
  FYI, SPB "is" learning carnatic from KJY. So is it not kind of an admission that SPB himself makes ? :-)
  
  rasigan:
  
  aahaa..have you listened to "ramakatha gaanalayam" and "gOpaanganE" ? Yeah, Others can sing. But can they effect is the question.
  
  

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