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Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 3: Thaththuvap Paadalgal

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on Wed Jul 15 19:13:39 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For a good understanding of how to approach this ongoing symposium, please refer to the thread, "Kannadhaasan Vs. Vairamuthu TFM Symposium Topic 1:Iyarkai Varnanai" before you post. Let me reiterate that this is not a patti mandram, but
a research symposium.
Please show TFM examples of both poets with regards to just Thaththuvap Paadalgal
for this thread.

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Responses:

• From: peesoo (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de) on: Thu Jul 16 00:32:48 EDT 1998
  
  
  pOnaal pOkattum pOtaa; in-tha
  pUmiyil n-ilaiyaay vaazn-thavar yaarataa?
  pOnaal pOkattum pOtaa.
  
  
  van-thathu theriyum pOvathu engkE
  vaachal n-amakkE theriyaathu!
  van-thavarellaam thangkivittaal in-tha
  maNNil n-amakkE itamEthu?
  
  
  vaazkkai enpathu viyaapaaram; varum
  jananam enpathu varavaakum; athil
  maraNam enpathu chelavaakum
  pOnaal pOkattum pOtaa.
  
  
  iraval than-thavan kEtkinRaan ; athai
  illai enRaal avan vituvaanaa?
  uRavaich cholli azuvathanaalE
  uyirai mINtum tharuvaanaa?
  kUkkuralaalE kitaikkaathu; ithu
  kOrttukku pOnaal jeyikkaathu; an-tha
  kOttaiyil n-uzain-thaal thirumpaathu
  pOnaal pOkattum pOtaa.
  
  
  iRaivan padaippil piRappum iRappum sAthAraNamAnavai. piRandhavar anaivarum iRandhE aaga vENdum. ithaRkidayil nam seyyum seyalgal
  yaavumE arththamatravai endra uNarvai azhagaaha koNuvandhuLLaar. iRappu kuRuththu ezhum nyayamaana bayaththai theLivikkiRar.
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate1.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Jul 16 16:22:10 EDT 1998
  
  kaNNadhasankku kadhal, thathuvam ellam allva sappiduvadhu pOl. thOOL kiLLppuvar..
  
  poonaal pogattum pOda.. padalai muzhumaiyaga ezhuthiya peesoo-vukku mikka N-andri.
  
  innum sila thaththuva padalgaL....
  
  engE N-immathi, engE N-immathi
  angE ennakOr idamvENdum.....
  
  satti sutadhada kai vittadhada
  N-enjaith thottadhada...
  
  aaRu manamE aaRu andha aaNdavan kattaLai aaRu..
  
  vEduvarai uravu, veethi varai manaivi, kAdu varai piLai kadaisee varai yaro
  
  iraNdu manam vENdum iraivanidam kettEn N-inaiththu vazha ondru marandhu vAzha onru...
  
  
  (ellam Sivaji patta irukku....???)
  
  uLLam enbadhu aamai adhil unMai enbadhu oomai..
  
  En priandhAi maganE? En pirandhAyo? illai oru piLLai endru enguvOr palarirukka ingu vandhu En priandhai selva maganE
  
  More to come...
  
  
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ bbn-cache-3.cisco.com) on: Thu Jul 16 19:37:39 EDT 1998
  
  I know its hard to find many thaththuva muththukkaL from VM's songs unless we understand what he defines (and believes) thaththuvam is.
  
  VM says in his book mounaththin sapthangaL
  that nilaiyAmaiyaip pAduvathuthAn thaththuvam
  enRa karuththu thavaRu enbathu enathu karuththu..".
  
  But he has given a good philosophical song in
  nEEngaL kEttavai. vAzhkkai ennum nilaiyAmaiyai VM azhagAgach sollum varigaL..There is an old saying kAyamE ithu poyyadA..veRum kARRadaiththa paiyadA. VM borrows the idea and says with a different nayam that the human body is just a grocery bag to get filled with dreams..! Whether VM accepts this as a thathuvap pAdal or not, I regard this song in this category.
  
  kanavu kANum vAzhkkai yAvum
  kalainthu pOgum kOlangaL..
  :
  :
  piRakkinRa pOthE iRakkinRa thEdhi
  irukkinRathenbathu meithAnE..
  AsaigaLenna ANavamenna uRavugaL enbathum poithAnE..
  udambu enbathu uNmaiyilenna kanavugaL vAngum paithAnE...
  
  VM also says in his book : vAzhkkaiyaip paRRiya intha (i.e thaththuva muththirai peRRa kaNNadAsan/PKS pAdalgaL) avanambikkaip pAdalgaLai vittu nmbikkaiyOOttum pAdalgaLai nAn ezhuthiyirukkiREn. avai inthap pAdalgaLukkellAm
  virOthamAnavaigaLAga viLanguginRana.
  
  In addition, VM categorises all aRivOOttum allathu ezhuchchiyOOttum pAdalgaL in thaththuvap pAdalgaL category. If we accept VM's argument that thaththuvam enbathu meyyaRivu then we can list the following lines too in this category:
  
  iLamai un thOLgaLil irukkumpOthE
  ethu nijam enbathai ettividu
  ezhuthiyapadithAn nadakkum ellAm
  vithivasam enbatha vittuvidu.. (song from sivappu malli)
  
  manithA manithA ini un vizhigaL sivanthAl
  ulagam vidiyum..
  vizhiyil vazhiyum uthiram muzhuthum
  iniyun saritham ezhuthum..
  asaiyum kodigaL uyarum uyarum
  nilavin muthugai urasum..
  :
  :
  ini thEnvarum enbathum pAlvarum enbathum
  jOsiyamAnathadA
  sAttaigaLE ingu thEErvigaL enbathu
  sOOsagamAnathadA.. (song from kaN sivanthAl maN sivakkum)
  
  More later..
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ 170-114-244.ipt.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 20:16:40 EDT 1998
  
  More KaNNadhasan paadalgaL...
  
  manithan enbavan thaivamagalaam
  vaari vaari vazhangum podhu vaLLaLagalaam....
  ....
  maanamirundhal paravai kUttil mangaL vazhalam
  vazhi irundhal kadukukkuLE malaiyai kaNNlaam...
  
  
  mayakkama kalakkama manadhilE kuzhappama
  vazhkaiyil N-adukkama.
  
  theivam thandha veedu veethi irukku,
  vaazhvin poruLena N-ee vandha kadhai enna?...
  ....
  kaLLikkena muLLil veli podi thangachchi
  kondaral pavam thindraal theerum idhuthan enkatchi
  ....
  enaik kettu thaithandhai padaithanna? illai en piLLai enaik kettu pirandhaana?....
  ...
  thELivaga therindhalE siththandam
  theriyaamal pOnAlE vEdhantham...
  ....
  
  
  paramasivan kazhuthilirundhu paambu kettadhu
  karuda sowkiyama?
  yarum irukkum idathil irundhukoNdal ellam sowkiyamE karudan sonnadhu.
  adhil artham uLLadhu...
  
  N-ilavaip parththu vaanam sonnadhu ennaith thodathE
  N-izhalaip parththu boomi sonnadhu ennaith thodathE
  N-adhiyaip parththu N-aaNal sonnadhu ennaith thodathE..
  
  manam oru kurangu manitha manam oru kurangu...
  
  kasEthan kadavuLada, andha kadavuLukkum idhu theriymada. Kaikku kai marum paNNamE....
  
  Kavingar oru pattula sonna thathuvam
  meen seththa karuvaadu
  N-ee seththa verum kudu.. in the film Pookiri Raja..Sema dapankuththu pattu...
  adhai VM thannoda ANNamalai-la vara pattula
  meen seththa karuvadu
  N-ee seththa verum kudu kaNNadhasan sonnadhunga... endru kuripidukirrar..
  
  innum oru kaNNadhasan paadal...
  aaNdukku aaNdu thEethikku thEthi aayiram irukkudhu subathinam.
  .....
  vaLLalilin kaiyil pala laksham irundhal eLiyavarukku adhuthan suba thinam
  ....
  
  .....innum varum....
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jul 16 20:27:36 EDT 1998
  
  Thaththuvam was very prevalent and appreciated in movies during Kannadhaasan's reign. If VM had written for MGR movies he would have to have written at least 10 thaththuvap paadalgal. If Sivaji had continued to play a victim of circumstance during the movies of late 70s and 80s, VM would have had more opportunities to write thaththuvam. This category is seriously dated because today's tastes and vision do not dictate philosophising in movies. Having written this disclaimer, let me give some of VM's songs that rate as thaththuvam for today's culture.
  The song "Vandhenda Paalkaaran" from "Annaamalai" is thaththuvam because VM shows how a cow is many splendored in its benevolence while in contrast humans are self-serving.
  There is a song where VM captures the irony of the classes explicitly by describing how a rich man's window has a curtain but a slum dwelling kid has no clothes. I wish I remembered the lyrics. Someone please oblige.
  The song from "Jaadhimalli", "Solladi Bhaaratha Maatha" is rich in depicting Indians' nilaiyaamai.
  
  buththan pirandha punniya boomi
  raththak kaadaai maaruvathoa
  . . .
  malligaippoovirkum jaathiyai vaitha
  manidhan nilaiyai en solvathoa
  . . .
  Gandhi silaivadiththu athil
  kaiththadiyai mattum naam
  payan seithoam(I'm sure I got the words wrong here but the meaning is right)
  
  
  VM often sprouts existentialistic views in the most casual songs.
  
  achcham naanam enbadhu
  Haidher kaalap pazhasu
  muththu muththam poadavaa
  raththam puththam pudhusu
  
  
  boomi kaayndhu poagaamal
  saagaamal moatchangal kanboam ippo
  
  
  Here, VM shows that a modern girl is not buying into the saving for later mentality of the old:
  
  Paarkathae paarkathae
  panjaangathaip paarkathae
  killathae killathae
  dhaavaniyaik killathae
  kollathae kollathae
  teenage-aik kollaathae
  vaazhkai vaazhaththanae
  vaa vaa aththanae
  . . .
  paravai aagaamal
  pattupuzhuvaaip poagathae
  . . .
  ippozhuthae vaazhnthuvidu
  indrae ingae
  (Even Camus can't reduce existentialism in four words like this)
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ cs511.cs.wmich.edu) on: Thu Jul 16 21:39:58 EDT 1998
  
  Thathuvams VM
  
  'sogamenne thozhanae
  uridhi kolvai veeranae
  urimaiyodu poridu
  indru oyvedu'
  
  'kalakkamenne maanida
  mayakkamingae aenada
  uridhiyodu kelada
  unmai neeyada'
  
  (from 'enne desamo')
  
  His best is from 'Vaanamae ellai'
  
  siragillai naam kili illai
  ada vaanam ondrum thulaivillai
  puvi mele nee vidhai aanal
  indha boomi ondrum sumaiyillai
  vayadhae kidaiyadhu
  muyal pol vizhaiyadu
  un pangai boomiyil thedu'
  
  'aindharivu konda jeevan yaavum vazhavillaiya
  sugam kaanavillaiya
  ** aaram arivu kondom adhu ondre thollaiyo**
  ethanai kodi inbam indha mannil illaiya
  penn kannil illaiya
  ** kaanal neeril thoondil naam pottom illaiya**
  vazhkkaiyin inbam
  naatkalil illai
  sila naazhigai vazhum sitreesal kooda
  deepangal thannai thedum
  thedum
  
  sooriyan merkkil saindha podhum
  vazhkkai ulladhu
  adhai nilavu sonnadu
  nilavu theyndha podhum
  ada vinmeen ulladhu
  vettiya podhum vaeril innum vazhkkai ulladhu
  thalir vandhu sonnadhu
  thotta chinungi pookum adhil vazhkkai ulladhu
  netroru vazhkkai
  indroru vazhkkai
  edhuvaiyina podhum nalamaayiru podhum
  idhuvae en vedham'
  
  
  Another song from the same film:
  
  'nee aandavana ?
  thai thandhai dhan unakkillaiye
  kanna naan un jadhi dhan
  uravenbadhae enakkilaiye
  kanneer enne kanna, ada naan un maamanae
  mannil vandhadhaal nee mannin maindhanae
  
  thai bashai ariyaadha pudhu indhiyan
  neeyendraal poiyillaiye
  **than jaadhi sollamaal nee vazhgirai
  un polae oorillaiye**
  idhazhoram aayiram sirupookal pookirai
  oru kannaal parkkirai odhukeedu ketkirai
  thalattida vazhiyundu vazharvai piraiye
  paalottida vazhiyillai adhu dhan kuraiye
  ***undhan sogam sonnaal un aekkam poividum
  engal sogam sonnaal un thookkam poividum***
  
  kalaigindra megangal kai koottiye vanvezhiyil thalattudhe
  ***karaigindra pirai aindhu kai neetiye sooriyanai paarattudhe
  mudhiyaada yaathirai mudigindra velaiyil
  muthangal thandhu nee mullaanai selaiyil
  nee enbadhu en vazhvil varava selava
  mulenbadhu rojavil urava pagaiya
  kaalam seidha kolam nee ingae vandhadhu
  kannerodu indru ada kanneer serndhadhu***
  
  
  **-the lines i liked the most
  
  
  Kutti line from the song 'janagana mana'(vaanamae ellai again)
  
  indha tharai vazhkkai
  verum sirai vazhkkai
  indha boomikku nandri solli
  purapadum vezhai
  
  janagana mana ene jadhi sollum neram
  janamum maranamum sandhikkum kaalam
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tj074.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jul 16 22:43:10 EDT 1998
  
  vairamuththu does have a slightly different perspective on thaththuvam. As Pags noted, he has made that very clear in his book "mounaththin sapthangaL" along with these qualifying statements:
  "....(pOndRa thaththuvap pAdalgaLai kaNNadhAsan ezhudha) avarOdu sErndhu AyirakkaNakkAna janangaL andRu azhudhArhgaL. ippadippatta pAdalgaLai ezhudhuvadhaRku andRu kadhaiyil mEnmai irundhadhu. kaNNeer viduvadhaRku oru gambeeram irundhadhu."
  
  So, vairamuththu seems to have a two-fold metaphilosophy on philosophy in TFM as per his statements:
  1. The pattukkOttai/kaNNadhAsan brand philosophy wont "sell" today, and a good business philosophy/pragmatism dictates that you don't write non-saleable lyrics.
  2. The fundamental definition of philosophy is multi-faceted; even if one facet doesn't "sell", there are several other facets which are important and saleable.
  Now, let's look at some of his philosophical songs......
  
  In this slightly cliched song from "manidhan", VM is contemplating human nature, humankind and God:
  kurangilirundhu piRandhAnA
  kurangai manidhan petRAnA
  yAraik kELvi kEtpadhu
  Darwin illaiyE!
  
  kadavuL manidhanaip padaiththAnA
  kadavuLai manidhan padaiththAnA
  reNdu pErum illaiyE
  rombath thollaiyE!
  
  In this song from "kavidhai pAda nEramillai", VM depicts a philosophical debate around ahimsA as a way of life:
  Argument for ahimsA:
  vAnaththai moodap pOrvai illai
  vanmuRaiyAlE theervu illai
  manangaL iruNdAl ulagil oLi illai
  
  thoduvAnam nijam alla
  thoduvadhu sulabam alla
  puriya maRukkum vayadhalla
  karaiyai maRandhAl adhan peyar nadhi alla
  
  Argument against ahimsA:
  nEtRu varalAtRil nigazhndhadhu enna?
  raththam sindhAmal nadandhadhu enna?
  kAgidham ellAmE pazham kadhai kooRum
  Ayudham illAmal edhu ingu mARum?
  
  thoduvAnam nijam alla
  adhaith thoda viruppam alla
  muLLai muLLAl eduththAl thavaRalla
  kavidhai pAdum pozhudhalla
  
  In this song from "Anandha ArAdhanai" VM talks about the importance of living:
  karuvil irukkaiyil kaN moodik kidandhOm
  piRandhum uRakkamA irundhum mayakkamA
  vAzhkkai ingE dhooram illai
  vAzhndhu pArththAl bAram illai
  vAzha maRuppavan kOzhai
  
  In "sigaram" he stresses the need for confidence:
  indRenbadhu uNmaiyE nambikkai ondRE nanmaiyE
  nambikkaiyE nalladhu eRumbukkum vAzhkkai uLLadhu
  
  oorvasi oorvasi take it easy oorvasi: vAzhkkaith thaththuvam??!
  I also think one of VM's philosophical songs is oorvasi oorvasi take it easy oorvasi [no, I'm not kidding!].
  On closer analysis, the message it sends out to our youth is "if you want to be a winner, don't get stressed out by life's minor annoyances and frustrations, but move on."
  How much more pragmatic can a lyricist get, really?! :-)
  
  vAzhkkaiyil vellavE take it easy policy (TIEP)
  ....
  oliyum oLiyum current pOnA TIEP
  ....
  pakkaththu seat-ulE pAtti utkArndhA TIEP
  pNdigath thEdhi Sundayla vandhA TIEP
  azhudha kAdhali aNNAnnu sonnA TIEP
  
  

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