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Has ARR not copied Narumugaiyae from Thanga magan inru

Topic started by G.Suresh (@ 207-172-74-59.s59.as5.man.erols.com) on Fri Apr 3 13:01:41 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Once again I reinstate this query , The simple reaon is we always blame and ignore MDs like Deva,Vidyasaagar as they carry an image of outfight copiers , We (Atlese majority of us) tend to take away the credits even if they come out with some geniune stuff.Is it not true this time with ARR, atlease I feel narumugaiyae as lot of similarities with 'Thanga Magan inru singa nadai'
from Baashaa. Recently I am also finding, I am not sure however that 'Enakke enakke' song from Jeans resembles 'Hawala' song of VidyaSaagar from 'Subaash', I would like to get the response from our world wide TFM audience , Thanks Sathya for your response

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Responses:

• From: haris (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sat Apr 4 00:03:12 EST 1998
  
  I won't accept that 'narumugayE' was copied
  from 'thanga magan ingu chinga..'. usuala, ore
  ragathula irukkara rendu pattukkal, sila idangalla resemble agaradha thavirkka mudiyadhunnu ninaikkiren. but i'm yet to hear the 'subaash' song. narumugayum, thangamaganum 'nattai' ragam enru ninaikkiren.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Sat Apr 4 00:21:21 EST 1998
  
  Suresh:
  
  All the waiting was very worthwhile, don't you
  think? Finally, there is one posting in this thread
  which is connected with the matter of the thread!
  
  Although I don't know about this nattai
  stuff, I agree with what Haris has said.
  
  Here I should also add an important comment about
  those who say this is copied from that etc.
  It would be nice if such statements are clearly
  expanded; for example, say things precisely such
  as: the first line of the pallavi is an exact
  copy but the rest are completely different etc.
  If you go into all the topics and study the
  statements on copies, you will see that they are
  very casual statements.
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sat Apr 4 04:19:59 EST 1998
  
  narumugaiye is not a pure adaptation of nattai. if we listen carefully, the last hum of unnikrishnan ends somewhere in nilaambari. that aside, the opening of narumugaiye perhaps resembles that of thanga magan indru but even there i would not go to the extent of saying it is a copy. Rahman, in my opinion, went in for a overkill by asking 2 classical singers bombay jayasri and unni to sing this song when there is so much of orchestration.
  
  
• From: haris (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sat Apr 4 06:20:27 EST 1998
  
  i also like to add something though not related
  to this particular thread - but the song in
  discussion.
  you can notice how differently unnikrishnan
  and bombay jayashri pronounce the word
  'atchaththingal' & 'kotchappoigai' in the line, 'atchaththingal annilavil kotchappoigai aadugayil...'. while unni pronounces them as
  'atchatthingal & kotchappoigai', jayashri pronounces them as 'attraththingal & kottrappoigai' . i thing unni's pronounces rightly and jaya's is not. thamizhla pattappadippu padichavanga yaravadhu edhu sarinnu chollungappa.
  
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sun Apr 5 23:49:22 EDT 1998
  
  hi haris,
  
  jayasri's pronounciation is the right one. the song goes "attrai thingaL an nilavil kotrapoigai aadiyaval".
  
  i had to listen to the song for about 8/9 times to get the words. so much so for the diction of singres today
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sun Apr 5 23:49:34 EDT 1998
  
  hi haris,
  
  jayasri's pronounciation is the right one. the song goes "attrai thingaL an nilavil kotrapoigai aadiyaval".
  
  i had to listen to the song for about 8/9 times to get the words. so much so for the diction of singers today
  
  
• From: M. Diwakar (@ j14.brf53.jaring.my) on: Mon Apr 6 09:27:34 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Badri,
  
  Don't blame the singers alone for the bad diction. It is probably as much the MD's fault because the emphasis is not on lyrics anymore. As long as the words fit the metre - and sometimes not - and the words in Tinglish ( Tamil/Hindi/English together ), the song is sure to be a great hit.
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Apr 6 11:22:58 EDT 1998
  
  Jayshri's pronounciation is right (AttraiththingaL). Anyway the lyrics is direct lift from the famous Tamil literature Aga Naanooru. Kannadasan used the same lyrics (atleast in the beginning) in a TFM-ised form in the song 'Androru naaL adhE nilavil' years ago. He was criticized by DMK demagogues (At that time Kannadasan had switched his allegiance to Congress, I think)for plagiarizing Tamil literature.
  
  
• From: haris (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Tue Apr 7 01:35:41 EDT 1998
  
  I will greatful if somebody will be able to
  give the full translation of this song (at least
  the charanams) 'yaayum yaayum yaaragiyaro..'
  and so on.
  thanx.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Apr 7 17:52:17 EDT 1998
  
  haris, search the archives for "bringing ilakkiyam to the pAmaran" thread. if
  it's not there, let me know. (this apparent rude mail is to avoid digressing
  in to thamizh literature.)
  
  
• From: Ramkumar Perumanam (@ freeway.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Apr 8 11:10:05 EDT 1998
  
  To me 'Thanga magan indru' seems to
  resemble 'Puttham pudhu bhoomi vendum' (Thiruda
  Thiruda - ARR song) at least in the beginning of
  the song. I am not sure whether these two songs
  have anything in common.
  
  
• From: venky (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Wed Apr 15 04:31:10 EDT 1998
  
  I don't think 'Thanga magan indru' is resembling 'Puththam puthiya boomi' if you hear the tune, but iam not sure about the starting music.
  Although i find both these songs starts similar for atleast half of the verse but annupalavi is totally different.
  
  
• From: The Fan (@ spider-wj063.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Nov 3 23:56:47 EST 1998
  
  KANDUPUDICHEN, KANDUPUDICHEN....
  .....
  SISHYA, SISHYA
  
  
  This is a discovery in serendipity. I think I got the answer finally and the thread to where this should be posted! I was sitting to download digested files in the output folders in my personal system, when I kind off went into a lull just humming Narumugaye, Narumugaye.... with some unintelligent accompanying 'back'ground score. This song has been running in my subconscious for some days since I was trying to find out where have I heard this song in some form before. This sweet song looked so close to something that has been my favorite for years and years.
  
  Suddenly, I jumped up from my seat. Eureka! (or Narumugaye!!) It is the same as Raja's all time classic ' UNAKKENA THAANE INNERAMAM, NAANUM KATHURINDEN....'
  
  I am most certainly sure that Thang magan indru must have also been sourced from the master song of The Maestro. (though I have not heard the latter one.) But, you guys can place a bet with me if I you think I am not right. Match the whole song line for line and you will see ARR's ingenious interpretation of Maestro's song. It is really a credit to ARR for having sourced a lovely number from one of the best creations in music.
  
  everyone's comments eagerly in anticipation...
  
  I know the probability of such composing coincidences. When a certain song impresses upon your thoughts, it regenerates in a slighty different form. It has happened to me. Of course, ARR could capture his thoughts into music, that is the only difference.
  
  
• From: RAMKUMAR (@ 161.139.37.74) on: Wed Nov 4 00:38:03 EST 1998
  
  AR is really perspect in copy music.AR usualy copy music from western countries.
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 202.54.125.172) on: Wed Nov 4 04:38:26 EST 1998
  
  Haris,
  I think you brought up an interesting observation: The song in question has Unnikrishnan pronouncing the lyrics right and Jayashree goofing up.
  
  Many Madras based people do have the habit of saying MANDRAM and THENDRAL, KUTRAM, KOTRAVAN etc. as separate letters and think it is right. The DR or TR should be kind of merged and pronounced. A good guide is the dialogue from Manohara: Shivaji says "Kutram(Kuttam) Enna Seiden Kotravane".
  
  Neels
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Wed Nov 4 05:17:35 EST 1998
  
  GURUVE GURUVE
  pls tell me which movie the song "UNAKKENA THAANE INNERAMAM, NAANUM KATHURINDEN....' is from. udanadiya record paNNaththaan.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Nov 4 05:33:33 EST 1998
  
  unakkena thaane is from ponnu oorukku pudusu. u can hear it in,
  http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/4424/unakku.ra
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Nov 4 05:36:30 EST 1998
  
  it is there in mailbag as well,
  http://www.mail-bag.com/raja1.shtml
  
  
• From: Vanavasam (@ slip-32-101-16-137.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 4 09:19:42 EST 1998
  
  Hi,
  These songs are set to similar ragas... songs in same in ragas are not copying. Also notes wise both the songs are miles apart. Especially the "kotrai thingal" lines are tuned very well by AR.
  
  Another eg: Idaya kovil - Van uairendha solai sounds similar to good old nejam marapathailai - here too same raga has been used.
  
  Amma endru azkatha sounds likes the hindi number ek ladki in 1948 love story - both the songs are in Kalyani.The great discovery people made here is the Raga discovery, nothing else.
  
  
  
• From: Sriram (@ bbn-cache-2.cisco.com) on: Thu Nov 5 08:44:35 EST 1998
  
  As if Deva is orginal ? thangamagan Ingu is copied from Innum Ennai Enna Seya Pogirai composed By IR for the Movie Singaravelan
  
  
• From: YGeetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Thu Nov 5 11:31:40 EST 1998
  
  Sriram: Again it goes back to the fact that there is a similarity in the Raga structure in the songs Thanga Magan and Innum Ennai. I have observed in the past that IR himself did a bit of a re-cycle job in the song ORU PATTAN POOCHI, from KM, as the Raga resemblence is similar, as is the song THENDRAL VANDHU NADAIYAI POTADHU from Iniyavale....All these similarities come fromt he fact that Nattai, Kambeera Nattai, Kedharam, thilang, Jog, e.t.c......
  
  Vanavasam's comments are 100% accurate in this case.....Thanks.....
  
  
• From: YGeetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Thu Nov 5 11:35:52 EST 1998
  
  Sorry, this line should read.....
  
  All these similarities come from the fact that Nattai, Kambeera Nattai, Kedharam, Thilang, Jog, have similar notes.....
  
  

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