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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Mar 4 19:55:47 EST 2003
  
  jOrA kai thaTTungkO. now this page starts on the path of degeneration.
  
  
• From: Sharma (@ 61.6.38.132) on: Tue Mar 4 20:29:53 EST 2003
  
  IR loses his grip on TFM
  Conclusion: TFM is degenerating
  
  IR is criticised in this thread
  Conclusion: This thread is degenerating
  
  See a pattern?
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157) on: Tue Mar 4 20:57:32 EST 2003
  
  I think the kind of music an MD makes has a lot to do with the music that he or she has been exposed to, atleast with respect to getting new thoughts and ideas..etc.
  from past IR and ARR interviews you get a fair idea of their varied music tastes. Probably the present day guys are just doing their 9 to 5 thing in the studio, not bothering to step back and see what kind of music they are making.The only time they probably listen to any other kind of music is probably to lift it or use it as some kind of ready reference.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Tue Mar 4 22:59:07 EST 2003
  
  >>>>>
  Now its the era of ARR but he failed to be prolific and the outcome is as SPB said "Now, any KeyBoard Guy could become a MD".
  <<<<
  
  let me clear what i meant in this statement. As ARR did not take many movies in a year people went to those who are lesser MDs. My argument is had ARR picked more films the tougher will be the state for other people forcing them to CONSISTENTLY give quality output to keep them in the scene.
  
  There might be umpteen reasons for ARR not taking many projects. It might be his wish; it might be that the projects proposed to him were not good; etc., etc. Whatever be the reason the ultimate result is ARR did/does less number of movies per year giving room for lesser quality people to complete other movies.
  
  When i mean lesser quality people its not meant to be harsh one. the maturity factor i'm talking about (again, maturity doesn't necessarily mean age). If I had been a Keyboard player for a known MD then I got a fair chance of becoming a MD. Its like the demand for Indian software engineers during the boom period. You do a crash course in NIIT/Aptech YOU GOT A FAIR CHANCE TO GO ABROAD. Some among such acheivers might be by virtue great. But a more percentage of them are only fillers. I quoted SPB's words in this sense only. Earlier a Bagyaraj has to work a lot with Barathiraja as Assitant Director(AD). Now a AD with say shankar/mani for three movies gets a chance to direct a movie by himself/herself. There is every chance that the outcome is mediocre. Might be that such "sudden directors" have lesser experience in extracting good music from MDs. But whatever be it the final result is not satisfactory.
  
  Also, I think a smooth transition happened from MSV era to IR era. This didn't happen in the next generation i.e IR to ARR. The sudden rout-out of IR from the scene after 94 is also one of the reason, in the sense, steep fall of films for IR from 30-40 a year to 2-5 a year and only 2-5 movies by ARR. Had IR and ARR put together had a larger share of movies per year, IMHO, it would have been a better situation in TFM.
  
  I feel this factor i.e. the dwindling of share of movies per year of top MD(s) is one of the major reasons for TFM's degeneration.
  
  Also, as i mentioned, I HOPE this degeneration is only a temporary phenomenon.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 203.199.209.101) on: Tue Mar 4 23:04:11 EST 2003
  
  i apologize to people here esp. rajaG, the thread starter, for if i am the reason for the degeneration in this thread. If so, i request all here not to consider my posting at all. ofcourse only in this thread ;-)
  
  
• From: st (@ 212.153.190.3) on: Wed Mar 5 04:04:45 EST 2003
  
  I think the answer is in your age. Generally after about 25 , ur brain can appriciate only patterns that it has been trained to listen to till then,with little deviations.
  This is true for more than 90% of the people. But since the brain continues to learn for a very long time, with some effort you could still "appriciate", new patterns but it would be difficult for you to actually "love" them.
  
  This debate was there during the MSV to IR transition, again during IR to ARR transition and this will always be there. Only difference that MSV to IR transition was not as stark as IR-ARR. I dont imply that all music is good. It is just that when you start saying OLD versus NEW, it implies you have grown old. A song like "Kaadal Pissasey" that is abberration to you might be among the favourites of todays kids.
  If your kid also finds it a abberration then it is just because his/her mind was trained on the old songs that you always listened to.
  
  
• From: Thiru (@ 168.166.80.205) on: Wed Mar 5 12:09:48 EST 2003
  
  IMO, the transition period from IR to ARR didnt go smooth mainly
  because of financial factors and a cheaper alternative called 'Deva'..
  ARR took the TFM by storm and not every producer could afford ARR nor
  could ARR accept a bulk of movies at a time.. When you look into the
  year 1992-1997, deva had a steep increase in the no. of movies he would
  score..He was the cheap and best alternative to ARR and IR..
  all the village movies went to Deva whereas vikraman and the like
  minded group went to S.A. Rajkumar.. i'm not underrating the efforts of
  Deva to TFM but his 50 movies per year really started this degeneration to
  some extent... Out of his 50 movies in a year, it was difficult to pick
  30 good songs... ARR meanwhile came out with 4 or 5 movies each year and
  could give the 3 or 4 good songs in a movie... MDs like Sirpi and Aadhityan
  didnt help the cause too... We really didnt feel this degeneration at that
  point of time as we were satisifed with the 100 + quality songs we used to
  get from all the MDs... I'm staying away from talking about IR during this
  period as we might have contradicting opinions from diff groups.... After 99,
  with new MDs bursting in to TFM and the non-availability of ARR and with
  choosy IR, we had alternatives like shiva, bharatwaj etc... and they didnt make
  it big with their initial opportunities... In the last 2 years, we have seen
  the decline of Deva, absense of ARR, Occassional classics from IR... and ofcourse
  the rise of YSR, vidhyasagar, bharatwaj, imaan, manisharma etc.... Vidhyasagar
  seems to be the one MD who knows to utilise the current situation to his
  advantage... I was listening to 'Dhool' the other day and the whole album looks
  like a recycled one... but still its no. 1 in Super 10 and the movie is no.1 in
  Top 10 movies... When I watch programs like pepsi ungal choice and neengal ketta
  paadal, they request these songs like 'ithunundu muthathile artham irukka, illa
  englisu muthathile kashtam irukka'.... sung by the nasal (udit) narayan....At the
  same time we get quality songs from everyone but not the same 100+ quality songs
  we used get in the 90s..
  The people out there watching the movies are still enjoying the songs whatever it
  may be and whoever the MD is... its just us who ponder over the degeneration of
  TFM....
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.28.203) on: Wed Mar 5 12:38:34 EST 2003
  
  When discerning listeners (and practitioners) of music line-up to bolster faulty rendition and flawed vocals in songs like Poo Vasam, Udhaya Udhaya, Enakku Pidiththa Padal...with undue emphasis on "ghazal" or "sangathis" or whatever, it is both a sad and revealing aspect of what has indeed happened to TFM.
  Are we supposed to listen to a song just for the way one word is turned around or highlighted? What about the other words that precede or follow it? It is all very encouraging to welcome singers who have expertise in different "genres" of singing, but how about getting the words and their stresses right?
  Even after a hundred songs the Hariharans, Sadhnas and Udits don't get their ha's and ka's in order. Sometimes in the same song one discovers three other ways of pronouncing a word - and none of them right!
  When one has to strain to hear what is being said, and then realise with shock HOW it is being said, where is the joy and transcendence of music?
  If you eat a plate of Briyani that is stippled with stones, will you really call it a memorable meal? Or will you have a few strong words with the restaurant chef?
  
  Today, in the name of being hip, cool and current, it seems even connoisseurs turn into apologists.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Mar 5 14:25:57 EST 2003
  
  "Generally after about 25 , ur brain can appriciate only patterns that it has been trained to listen to till then,with little deviations."
  Care to present us with any scientific research evidence to back this up ? This is nonsense. Rather I can say there is evidence to prove young people respond/recognize rhythm more than melody. A one-year old can keep perfect time, but may not be able to repeat even a short melody.
  I know these sort of arguments will come up, that is why I suggested earlier we should not compare. We should only technically analyze the latest songs to see their musical content/worth. One poster just vanished earlier after this comment from mine and again has surfaced with sweeping generalizations.
  
  (Advice to a friend - this is not the right place to spend a honeymoon :))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 66.81.133.177) on: Wed Mar 5 15:05:55 EST 2003
  
  Naaz,
  If you could stand Jency's singing then you can stand Sadhana's good songs. I picked Jency because a majority of her songs were gems despite her. Would you never listen to those songs just for her horrible pronunciation? Music is not so black and white for you to discard like a bad plate of biriyani. Sometimes, one overwhelming factor diminishes the rest in a song. That was the case for me and many others with the song Udhaya. I've never been a huge fan of Hariharan, but he has had his share of marvelous songs. When you equate Hariharan and Udit you have gone beyond nitpicking.
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Wed Mar 5 16:46:22 EST 2003
  
  I hav always been amused why most of them hate Jency's singing..My dumb ears cud not find any pronounciation problem with her singing with whatever songs i have heard.:-)
  which song did she spoil?examples kudungappa yaravathu
  
  

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