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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

The popular notation used on this page. The twelve notes of an octave are the following.

1   2   3   4   5   6   7  8   9  10  11  12
S  R1  R2  R3  G3  M1  M2  P  D1  D2  D3  N3
       G1  G2                     N1  N2

"Raga based film songs" Database | Old Database | Indian Classical Music Forum | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.124) on: Thu Apr 18 05:41:44 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja Exam mudinjathum athuvuma neenga enkitta ippadi avasthapadanamnu vithi...yaaru enna panna mudiyum:-)
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.186.19) on: Thu Apr 18 05:45:10 EDT 2002
  
  Studying too much does make one a little mad!(hehe,no offence meant!-yennaiyum serthu-daan sollaren-honestly!:-))
  Seri-ippo poren.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.205.10) on: Thu Apr 18 07:39:26 EDT 2002
  
  haiyya neththu super aa eggs and thakkaLis were flying polarkke :) SIndhuja indha Ram a undu illai nnu paNNIdunga - romba paduththal thaangala :)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.75) on: Thu Apr 18 07:42:16 EDT 2002
  
  IR,
  naan ungalukku enna throgam panninen?....cha ippadi solliteengale...en manasu udanju pochu:-(
  Inime naanum Mouna viratham athaavathu R.O Mode kku poren....
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Apr 18 07:46:02 EDT 2002
  
  aha...chumma mayil kuyil un vervaila kulipen ...nee kulicha thanniya kudippennu ellam illama....arputhamana Varnanaigal:-).....IR Vm thirumba intha maathiri songs kudukka maatangalanu engi poi irukkum kodaanu kodi makkalil naanum oruvan
  
  Ram, andha paadalai aezhudhiyavar kaviyarasar kaNNadaasan.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.75) on: Thu Apr 18 07:49:00 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps naan ungalukku thanx for the correctin nu solla matten b'cos naan Mouna viratham..:-)...I got confused b'cos Andhi Mazhai from the same film was by Vairamuthu...
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.205.10) on: Thu Apr 18 07:51:04 EDT 2002
  
  :-) Ram - ellathukkum kochunda eppadi? that was for fun :)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.75) on: Thu Apr 18 07:54:05 EDT 2002
  
  IR,
  vayathula paala vaartheenga engayavaathu Appa Nimmadhi Ozhinjaan sollidiveengalo nu bayanthunde irunthen.....nanri:-)
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.205.10) on: Thu Apr 18 08:11:15 EDT 2002
  
  :-)
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Thu Apr 18 08:15:14 EDT 2002
  
  IR, thakkali egg ellam illai. "Kadalai" :-)))
  
  Ram & sindhuja summa joly'ya 'kadalai' pottukittirukkaanga :-). Kandukkaadheenga ;-)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.124) on: Thu Apr 18 08:22:56 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan ithellam ungalukke nyayama?naan evlavu innocent aana aalu enna poi ippadi solliteengale:-)
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Thu Apr 18 08:31:08 EDT 2002
  
  ayya Ram, kadalai podaradhu onnum seyya koodaadha kutram illaye. :-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Apr 18 08:45:55 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan
  
  ippidi aellaam Ram-ma thappaa paesaadheenga. avar Mouna viradhaththula irukkaar aama.
  
  
  IR,
  vayathula paala vaartheenga engayavaathu Appa Nimmadhi Ozhinjaan sollidiveengalo nu bayanthunde irunthen.....nanri:-)
  
  
  Ram neenga unmayilaeyae innocent thaan. aennna IR sonnadhukku meaning-ae adhaan. ippa paarunga neenga naan aellam post paNNaama irundha IR ROM-la irundhu vaeLiyae vandhu maththavanga kaeLvikku taan taan-nu badhil solluvaanga. illaya IR? :-)Indha list-la MS-sa kooda saekkalaam :-)
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.205.10) on: Thu Apr 18 09:28:42 EDT 2002
  
  hmmm... innikku "kaala vaaring special" O!!!!! :-)
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ ) on: Thu Apr 18 11:36:24 EDT 2002
  
  IR....at last!
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.13) on: Thu Apr 18 11:54:31 EDT 2002
  
  Guys, sorry for being off-topic...
  
  IR:
  I remember you were asking about the four madhyamams when discussing about latangi/sarasangi issue. I was kind of having a passive interest in this before that, but your qtn kinda rekindled it. I think the whole madhyama issue pertains to 22-sruti system. And there is more behind it that what it seems.
  
  Long before while I was trying to understand the nature of 22 srutis i came across an article about Theory of 22 srutis (by one Mr. Vidyashankar S). This article explains very well the inadequacies of cycle of 5th and 4ths and provides a good (different) basis for understanding the 22 srutis. I dont know if you have read this article, but unfortunately i couldnt find on net anymore.
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.116) on: Thu Apr 18 13:11:11 EDT 2002
  
  Oops.. to continue...
  
  I have this article as a hard-copy and I can illustrate using that the 4 madhyamams to some extent. Let me know if you are interested.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Thu Apr 18 13:21:50 EDT 2002
  
  Vasu,
  
  Please do so. If possible scan and post it somewhere or if you have patience post the whole article. If not if you can mail me a copy I will retype and post it.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.205.10) on: Thu Apr 18 14:55:49 EDT 2002
  
  Vasu, yes exactly - that is exactly where I have read about Chyutha Madhyamams and infact the famous "Begada" Mamdhyamam!!!!!
  
  guys, I warn you :-) You are inviting trouble! This is one of the really complex aspects of Carnatic theory with a lot of bOngu too :-) (Infact they derive 24 sruthis but only accept 22!). Understanding this needs a perfect understanding of swarams and swarasthaanams :-)
  
  Vasu - please do. Also, would you mind sending me the article by VidhyaShankar? Is that on the net?
  
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.124) on: Thu Apr 18 18:49:49 EDT 2002
  
  Virala vaila vechundu vedikka parkara neram vanthaachu:-)
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.65) on: Fri Apr 19 00:30:15 EDT 2002
  
  IR,can u just tell me the basics of this 22 shruti-stuff?My doubt (which I think must be the common doubt)is that there r totally 12 swaras,and if u have a shruti having each of these as Sa,u can have only 12 shrutis.
  Pl. explain to me if there is a shorter intervel betn. 2 swaras,i.e,is there a shorter note u can have even betn something like Sa and R1?(or R2 and G1 or any such pair of consecutive swaras)
  So,pl. enlighten me on the basics (and thus also the 4 Madhyamas) so that I can get on with this article:
  http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/shruti.pdf
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.65) on: Fri Apr 19 00:37:12 EDT 2002
  
  What ratios r those in that article?And what is the meaning of "484 ragas in each scale"?
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.65) on: Fri Apr 19 00:39:55 EDT 2002
  
  Since u say there r supposed to be 24 shrutis,is it something like each intervel betn 2 consecutive swaras is again divided into exactly 2 so that u have 24 swaras and thus 24 shrutis?
  IR,Pl. reply soon b4 I fire u with more such dumb questions!
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.65) on: Fri Apr 19 00:57:14 EDT 2002
  
  1 last question:if there r 22 swaras,then why haven't they been given names like R1,G1 etc.,etc.?
  IR,kindly put up with these idiotic questions and oblige to this illiterate
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri Apr 19 02:34:36 EDT 2002
  
  Digression,
  
  any guesses on raga of the following
  
  a)naan sirithal deepavali - Nayagan
  b)paarijaadha poove - en raasaavin manasila
  c)kanmaniye kanmaniye solluradha kaelu - chinna vaathiyar (prabhu, ranjitha song with so many dialogues. I think it is vakulabharanam).
  
  Well?
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Fri Apr 19 03:00:09 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan
  
  a) naan sirithal deepavali - Nayagan
  b)paarijaadha poove - en raasaavin manasila
  
  i havent heard the 3rd song.
  
  i feel it is close to Pahadi in Hindustani. don't know the name in Carnatic.
  
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Fri Apr 19 03:20:20 EDT 2002
  
  or is it closer to Mohana kalyani?:-)
  anyone pls clarify, b4 i make other guesses:-)
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri Apr 19 03:23:18 EDT 2002
  
  satish, u mean both a) & b) are based on the same raga?. Also, what abt c)?
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Fri Apr 19 03:30:36 EDT 2002
  
  yes..i feel a and b have same raga.
  i havent heard c), so no guesses:-)
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 134.121.73.75) on: Fri Apr 19 03:32:02 EDT 2002
  
  IR_fan munnadiye namba discuss pannina maathiri those two songs are based on Mohanam with a lotto Anya swaras...(that is lot of Mohanam's prayogams are seen)
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.186.3) on: Fri Apr 19 09:44:06 EDT 2002
  
  IR?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.235) on: Fri Apr 19 10:30:17 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja - jorry! neenga India time naa US time - I get to read your posts only in the morning and hence the delay :-)
  
  The concept of 22 sruthis is extremely technical and are basically frequency intervals. There have been lots of arguments and counter arguments on its validity and this is more a theory concept and it is not applied widely in CM mainly because it is difficult to demonstrate effectively the existence of microtones between swarasthanams. The 22 sruthis are derived by taking the 12 swarasthanams excluding shatjam. It is believed that the interval between 2 swarasthaanams is not equal or is not a constant in a scale of 12 notes. It is either 90 cents or 114 cents (is it were a constant it would be 100 cents - a cent is a measure of the interval - this is also called the cycle of fours or fifths). Having said this, I am going to give a link to an article which is by far the simplest in explaining this concept.!!!!
  
  http://www.themusicmagazine.com/kvranganint2.html
  
  To answer your other question, yes they all have names and the PDF file you have gives the name for all 22 of them :-)
  
  
• From: Vasu (@ 192.35.232.116) on: Fri Apr 19 12:01:03 EDT 2002
  
  IR, arularaCan, Sindhuha et al:
  I dont mind retyping the article and posting it on web, but it would be impudent upon me to do that because, this particular paper looks like a research paper and it would be the prerogative of the author to make it public. It is sad that such a nice article isnt easily searchable on web.
  
  But with some prolonged searching i was able to dig up this article from rmic newsgroup and here is the link for it: (Google vaazhga!)
  
  http://groups.google.com/groups?q=theory+of+22+srutis+vidyasankar&hl=en&selm=a621fl22msk%40enews2.newsguy.com&rnum=6
  
  If that doesnt seem to work, goto google.com, select the Groups tab, type "theory of 22 srutis vidyasankar" and look for article called "Derivation of 22 srutis".
  
  btw, in search of the understanding, i also obtained recently a copy of 2 vols of Sangitaratnakara and have been quiet amazed at the information i could get from it. There are lot of discussions on srutis on the web and reading them leads to plenty of confusion. I hope to write what i have learnt so far (for learning sake not research sake) and look forward to share them with you all soon.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 38.220.167.235) on: Fri Apr 19 12:16:59 EDT 2002
  
  Vasu - thanks a lot for the link! Dont you think they should have called this "22 swarasthanams" instead of 22 sruthis!!! It is even very difficult to point to some of those notes to set the aadhara shatjam for that sruthi!
  
  would wait for more (simpler/novel) explanation of this concept from you..
  
  

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