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The most scathing IR criticism ever, probably!

Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!

cyk


Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.

let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.

The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:

Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song

Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions

Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja

Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now

Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?

In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.

And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.

Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)

The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: pennathur (@ 63.14.100.248) on: Sun Sep 17 10:34:27 EDT 2000
  
  Dear aarpee,
  
  Another anonymous flypast. WHY CAN'T U GUYS REVEAL YOUR NAMES?
  
  "believe me acceptance by northies or whites doesn not mean ARR is a better composer" That's being racist and clannish mister/ms.
  
  Read my post clearly and you will understand what I meant. ARR's popularity is not confined to only people at Qwiky's, Mac's, KFC, bowling alleys etc. People high and low, in every corner of the land appreciate his music and love every bit of it. And I am telling you this once again. Mass popularity among the simplest and most humble folk is the ultimate judge of a song's success. By that count ARR has achieved great success years back and held on steadfast to it.
  
  Now as far as IR being a great WCM composer is concerned I am sorry you simply haven't heard enough to talk about it. As another poster said here on tfm, IR isn't a great composer simply because he trots out all the swaras or notes of a scale. And if you think that even one of Raja's WCM pieces equals a classic, well there'slittle point in wasting my breath on you.
  
  That's the problem with IR and his fans. They take themselves too seriously.
  
  The point about Mozart is that he wasn't some arcane composer. He was a rebel of sorts who loved to tweak the nose of the establishment. And yet he made such outstanding stuff. There's something wrong if u believe that IR has made even a sigle piece on a par with Mozart. IR could have made something like that (he has the talent) if that's what he had started on years ago. Unfortunately in India you can't make a living out of music like that. And that's the dilemma that faces many non-classical musicians in India. There simply isn't the kind of demand that propels music in the West. (BTW WCM is a hard option in the West too) Cleveland, where I live has one of the world's finest symphony orchestras. It's a grim struggle to study music and then work your way into the orchestras out here. Raja has never talked about this part of his ambitions. I am sure he must have had some dreams of getting into WCM. ARR was very keen on jazz till he had to give up on it. Ad jingles and film music make you much more money. It's hard to resist. OTOH Indian classical can get you somewhere, but again it is a very hard grind. Carnatic doesn't make u much money unlike Hindustani.
  
  So that's where film music is in India. It's a compromise of ambitions. ARR freely admits that. Raja and his fans don't. You can scream till you are blue in the face. But the fact remains. Film music is temporary in its allure and people will come and go. And that's what I mean about fame being a fickle thing. Raju Bharatan's unauthorised bio of Lata says much the same.
  
  I am not talking big about being in Cleveland. Going abroad is just another thing these days for every Indian.
  
  
• From: rprakash (@ 62.7.15.89) on: Sun Sep 17 11:07:15 EDT 2000
  
  I am prakash.what is yours,pennathur?
  I do believe I have listened to enough WCM to qualify my above writings.to be fair,opera is not my stuff,but I am deeply into other forms of WCM,and it is all thanks to IR.and i do believe it is IR's music that has widened my musical horizons.
  now that you know my name,what do you intend to do?and why is that we never know your true name?and still you have not touched the crux of the matter-what is that makes you so vitriolic towards Raaja,enough to make you go back into archives to reopen the ARR vs IR thread-if this is not mischief mongering,what else is?
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 154.5.13.123) on: Sun Sep 17 12:23:56 EDT 2000
  
  Penathu(r) Pennathur
  
  
• From: vanavil (@ 210.212.251.55) on: Sun Sep 17 13:37:05 EDT 2000
  
  So Every one out there in tfm. one minute please. May i have ur attention please. Presenting before u a person named Pennathur who knows everything in music, Everything about history in short he can be called as an Encyclopedia on music. My goodness all that he spells out spells sense and logic. He has a very superior knowledge on western classical whereas he is as good as the great Subbudu in carnatic music.
  Vanthutan parru pesa. Hello Fellow IR fans, the best way to answer this psychopath is to remain silent. Let him spill out all the ugly stuff. Suriyana pathu kanda sori naikal korachathan. Intha mathiri naigal koraika thaan seiyum. Let's not waste our enery over these rubbish things. Pennathur pothitu po
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 63.14.100.62) on: Sun Sep 17 15:38:11 EDT 2000
  
  Dear Folks,
  
  While I may or may not know everyhting in music (thanks I have been called worse) you guys seem to know everything in abuse (not you prakash). It's the same thing guys. A circular argument. IR is the ultimate. Can I present some information on that. No you can't. Why? Because he is the ultimate. And the further you go on that the more obdurate the arguments become. Until one is branded a "psychopath" A big laugh. While I may not know much about music, you guys would do well to braoden your horizons. Just take the trouble to listen to something else once in a while. Music doesn't begin and end with Raja. To quote KVM on the criticism leveld by Veena Balachander, "Music is a boundless ocean. Neither I nor Balachander is ever going to cross it. We are just children plaing with pebbles on the beach."
  
  The artiste can never be greater than art itself. Unfortunately Raja fans think otherwise. "Nallador veenai seithen.." "Puthiyathor ulagam seivom..." "Eduda anda suriya meelLam.."
  
  Break out of your self-imposed strait jackets.
  
  FYI Hebert von Karajan, the late conductor of the Vienna (?) Symphony was reputed to know over 100,000 pages of music by heart. Asked why he still used the sheets when conducting the man remarked, "Everyday I see some new notes on it. I don't know who puts them there. But I wouldn't like to miss them"
  
  Years back I heard KJ sing "Sivasiva yena naatha.." at the Tyagaraja Aaraadhanai in my favourite PantuvaraaLli. Since then I have heard at least 5 people sing it (including the majestic MLVasantakumaari) and KJ as well. But that one first rendition by KJ is still etched in my mind. It will never be heard again. That's music guys. So when I talk about hearing great music in the unlikeliest places, it is not knowledge, it is experience. A humbling experience about the power of the most sublime art - MUSIC. And if you think one person Raja is all there is to it. Well you are entitled to your opinion and its consequences.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 172.153.238.127) on: Sun Sep 17 16:12:04 EDT 2000
  
  First I thought, We just got a IR hater!. Now it looks like its a good specimen for studies in mental health. Everybody is great for this specimen, from MSV, KVM to Deva, ARR. SAR should also be a genius. One except IR!.
  
  All boils down to one thing, personnel hate towards IR. No use responding to this specimen.
  
  It thinks DFers doesnt know anything and it takes him to know which is the source for nengal kettavai song, lol. For this specimens info there are people here who realy knows music. than disjoint/imaginative things about music industry.
  
  When they say IR is ultimate, it doesnt mean they are saying every one else is bad. Greats in music had lived and they keep coming, No one says its ends with IR. Its out of sheer love for his music and its quality, his fans give him such a stature. He earned it!, Its like saying my dad is the greatest man for me. I dont say it just because he is my dad, because he lived upto it,
  
  Now guys please IGNORE this specimen. Otherwise it will put down some more paragraphs from the book it bought in old moore market, '1001 isaiulaga ragasiyangal'.
  
  

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