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What's common in IR, ARR Songs

Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Wed Nov 15 00:03:37 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many threads deal with the differences in IR and ARR songs. Those include differences in composing-style, tune, orchesration, rythm, chords, melody, catchy beats, bgm etc etc. Is there anything common in their music (strictly with respect to cine music, not in their personalities, not even private albums)?

Most of us agree that its the TFM, nowadays, gives better music(in all form) than MDs from other Indian Films. This prompted me to think in this area. Afterall Rahmaan is a successor of Illayaraja. If we can think about some common things in IR and his predecessor MSVs then why cannot about IR and ARR.

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Responses:

• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Wed Nov 15 00:07:30 EST 2000
  
  One point came to my mind is usage of many, different instruments in films is a common quality in both IR and ARR which differntiate them from other MDs from Hindi,Telegu, Malayalam etc etc and even from some in Tamil. It might be based on the budget of the film but given the same budget, i feel, its these two who stays far ahead of the rest in usage of different instruments in a highly productive way.
  
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6) on: Wed Nov 15 06:18:25 EST 2000
  
  1)They will hesitate in giving interviews and appearing in public.
  2)They created a great impact in their debut films..
  3)They are bold enough to try new things(IR counterpoints and ARR chorus instead of instruments(rasathi enusuru from thiruda thiruda)i dont know whether this point is correct..
  4)Both of them love MSV's music
  sorry if i had deviated from the topic("only which is common in music")kupps ennai manniparaga..
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.130) on: Wed Nov 15 07:43:15 EST 2000
  
  peeps avargalae,
  
  point 3 is strictly musical(film); point 4 to some extent; but y points 1 and 2? want to have a spicy discussion here too...uh?
  
  peeps thangal thaan yennai mannikka vendum.
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.130) on: Wed Nov 15 07:46:00 EST 2000
  
  but peeps, regarding ur point 3, do we have the viceversa case many times? ie. has IR tried chorus instead of instruments and ARR tried counterpoints. If so that will be more interesting.
  
  
• From: satishv (@ 64.111.16.167) on: Wed Nov 15 08:57:57 EST 2000
  
  kups in mullum malarum
  "raman andalum ravanan andalum" song IR has used only chorus during one portion of the song
  and the chorus is awesome
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 15 12:47:59 EST 2000
  
  another tit bit...
  this chorus is set to rag "andolika"
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 193.113.185.133) on: Wed Nov 15 13:43:03 EST 2000
  
  have you listened to yeriyele elandhamaram-the second interlude has only chorus as background music.
  
  
• From: satishv (@ 206.15.134.102) on: Wed Nov 15 14:05:35 EST 2000
  
  yep
  prakash excellent song
  
  do u know any link for that
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Nov 15 15:23:25 EST 2000
  
  Digression but could not resist myself.
  
  Can you use only percussion instruments in a song and still make it melodious? Listen to 'niththm niththam nellu soaru'. Only ghatam and morsing (Is that the correct spelling?).
  
  I was reminded of this because of mullum malarum.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Nov 15 15:26:35 EST 2000
  
  I think this is one area where IRs songs lack the punch - usage of instruments. Also, ARRs prelude, interludes are placed slightly different from IRs.
  I always felt IRs interludes "Build" the theme of a song, and gets an answer in the charanam (like techiniques used in fugues, sonatas and so forth used to convey and build a theme) - whereas ARRs interludes focus on "lifting" instruments presence...and show its "color" (much like contemporary pop, R&B types). ARR keeps the defenition of style intact in all his interludes...
  Sorry about that. I can think of a few differences...But what do they have in common? I would have to hear from u people...
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 62.7.68.230) on: Wed Nov 15 15:53:13 EST 2000
  
  doubter,
  ilam nenje vaa from vanna vanna pookkal has only percussion instruments for the interludes and only a flute ,i think,accompanies kjy's voice throughout.
  raaja ,rajadhi rajan indha raaja-does it have anything else other than percussion instruments?
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 15 16:18:07 EST 2000
  
  main reason for arr's growth is he is different from others..
  
  1. ir and arr are hard working people.
  2. music is their life.
  3. they are among the famous and top personalities in indian cinema.
  4. Both of them are capable of making indian music international.
  5. Both of them respect talents.
  6. They clearly know what they do,
  7. They clealy know their limitations.
  8. They clealy know the history of indian music.
  9. Experiement lot of concepts. (arr does it with sounds)
  Finaally
  10. They have number of passionate FANS fighting for each other. :)
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Wed Nov 15 16:30:51 EST 2000
  
  11. Both has their share of ego and humbleness.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Wed Nov 15 16:33:45 EST 2000
  
  12. Both are in sprituality
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Wed Nov 15 16:33:58 EST 2000
  
  12. Both are in to sprituality
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 15 16:39:22 EST 2000
  
  13. Both changed thier orginal names.
  14. Both can sing.
  15. both have a unqiue choice of picking different hair styles :)
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 15 16:43:13 EST 2000
  
  16.Both copy.(the sources are different though)
  -)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 15 16:54:48 EST 2000
  
  17.Both deserted VM
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 15 17:12:29 EST 2000
  
  Another contro-similarity
  
  18.Both have national awards(though the degree of respect they have is different)
  
  Yaarukitte udhai vangapporennu theriyalai.-)
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 15 17:22:44 EST 2000
  
  19. both have "mother" sentiments.
  
  trend, I will try to stop with one hard ball
  
  20. both have tuned songs for some junk lyrics and voices. :))
  
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Nov 15 17:29:12 EST 2000
  
  prakash
  
  Does 'raajaa raajaadhi raajanidha raajaa' have any 'instrument' at all :-)))))
  
  On similar lines, the song 'poongaatrilae' from 'paattu paadavaa' has only sounds from a keyboard. No real 'instruments'.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Wed Nov 15 18:25:24 EST 2000
  
  Well..I can think of one - bass.
  Re: instruments and chorus. In one song, chorus sings the same melody which the string section was playing earlier. I think this is one of those IR demo/education at work - that human voice is also an instrument. Another one of those that IR does is, making the singer sing the swaras whenever he is making a rAgam change. Lots of inline help to appreciate the music.
  
  
• From: haris (@ 205.227.43.14) on: Wed Nov 15 19:07:41 EST 2000
  
  kiru, can u eloborate on ur above point with examples.. i think it should be interesting..
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Nov 15 19:13:07 EST 2000
  
  Raja Rajadhi...has rock organ (although very faintly heard). Excellent song, and interesting work with chorus and percussion.
  
  
• From: Layman (@ 206.175.176.2) on: Wed Nov 15 19:58:24 EST 2000
  
  Swamiji :
  
  Perhaps ARR has nervous fingers when pasting - oops!! placing - and so the difference.
  
  
• From: nvd (@ 161.142.78.85) on: Wed Nov 15 22:29:35 EST 2000
  
  Starting Music(Prelude, I suppose)-Pallavi-In Between Music (Interlude) - Charanam1 - (back to) Pallavi - Interlude - Charanam2 - Pallavi (as in the initial) - Song Ends.
  
  These chemistry is common between IR & ARR (the main competitors). In that sense, ARR keeps the tradition going.
  
  MayB the Ending part was shorter in ARR songs those days (1994-1996). But now, since Khatlar Thinam, even ARR use to have conventional style of ending a song.
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Thu Nov 16 00:13:25 EST 2000
  
  interesting nvd...
  thanks...
  kiru can u elobrate on ur latest posting? if what u claim is substatiated then its a point of similarity in IR and ARR, coz somebody had mentioned in an earlier thread that ARR also used human voice as an instrument, as a timer. it seems in that song he used human voice 'cha' instead of some golusu sathham or some instrumental sound to indicate the timing.
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Thu Nov 16 00:18:07 EST 2000
  
  doubter interesting point about 'nitham nitham nelli soru'. but i've a doubt is morsing(hope its correct spelling) a percussion instrument?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 16 10:28:25 EST 2000
  
  Re: voice and instruments.
  I think you can observe how IR uses voice chours very synonmously with instruments. But mainly I have noticed this with only string section. I dont think he has used voice for timing.
  For ARR the golusu saththam (mostly tambourine) sound is very important. It is used in majority of his songs (YSR also does this). This practice is very common in the POP songs. Since he uses this often he likes to substitute new sounds for this, so he has used 'cha' sound in one song.
  For IR, a song is just an excuse to deliver some WCM :-). So he is very much into preludes/interludes.
  
  Re: rAgam change. I realised this when somebody pointed out this. When the song starts in one rAgam, the swaras are also sang. Then when there is a change (its a kinda medley) the swaras are sung again. So the lay audience has a way of knowing whats going on. (But I doubt it was lost on most of the audience). Sorry, I cant recollect the song. Deva does this for a different reason. The pulveLi song in Asai has some swara/note singing. I suspect he did this to give the impression that he composed it originally or maybe he wanted to show the carnatic music in Rod Stewart's song :-).
  
  (Anyways, why is #16 needed here, Trend ? Cant we keep it all positive here ??)
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Thu Nov 16 11:59:32 EST 2000
  
  Trend
  
  #18 says that though both have national awards, there is a difference in the degree. But #16 just says both copy. It does not say anything about the degree of copying. Do you sincerely beleive that the degree of copying is same for both?
  
  
• From: doubter (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Thu Nov 16 12:07:28 EST 2000
  
  G.Kuppusamy
  
  I verified the spelling of morsing. I asssume it is a percussion instrument because it also gives the sound by beating (tapping??). I have seen musicians holding it close to their mouth and tapping it. More informed persons can throw some light on why they hold it close to the mouth.
  
  Moreover, in thani aavardhanams, mirudhangam, thavil, ghatam, ganjira and morsing are played alongwith, say, violin.
  
  

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