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Which of the Tamil dialects is the best?

Topic started by Tamil Kavi (@ gwnj.utstar.com) on Thu Oct 28 17:56:54 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Could we discuss in this forum which of the tamil dialects is the best?

Sangam Val'artha Madurai Tamizha? illai
Sadugudu Chennai Tamila?
Ennala Eppadi enum thiru nellaiya
Enunga eppadi vanga Kovai Tamizha?

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Responses:

• From: Genius (@ srirama.intecom.com) on: Thu Oct 28 22:53:01 EDT 1999
  
  Enna machi?? ippidi ketukina??
  enna ma@#%@thuku inda kelviya adicha??
  namma pettaila enda naiya kettalum sollume...
  namma Madras tamilthan super!!!!
  
  
• From: satheesh (@ sandalwood.cisco.com) on: Fri Oct 29 00:35:22 EDT 1999
  
  language spoken in any other part of tamilnadu (other than the above 4) sounds more like tamil.
  
  
• From: Tamizhan (@ pc7227.utdallas.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 02:17:51 EDT 1999
  
  Addada... Evvalukku bhaghavaan than nalla buddhi tharanum. Engaathula madappalli orathula oru thirunaageshwarar padam onnu irukku. Nee venumna vandhu Seevichukko...
  
  I am sorry, for the no meaning dialogue. But ITs a Iyer-Iyengar Slang.
  
  
• From: Tamizhan (@ pc7227.utdallas.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 02:18:01 EDT 1999
  
  Addada... Evvalukku bhaghavaan than nalla buddhi tharanum. Engaathula madappalli orathula oru thirunaageshwarar padam onnu irukku. Nee venumna vandhu Seevichukko...
  
  I am sorry, for the no meaning dialogue. But ITs a Iyer-Iyengar Slang.
  
  
• From: Kas (@ galaxy.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 29 02:41:25 EDT 1999
  
  What kind of a question is this? Have you not learnt that each dialect has its own special features and properties that go according to different situations and lifestyles? How can you possibly be judgemental and rule out a particular dialect by saying that another is the best? Is it not bad enough that only particular languages (like Tamil and Hindi) are the OFFICIAL languages of the nations, that we must be futher judgemental about the dialects too? And anyway, what does this topic have anything to do with TAMIL FILM MUSIC?
  
  
• From: Alagarasan (@ constellation.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 29 11:36:54 EDT 1999
  
  Nichaiyama Chennai tamilil uyir illai. Nellai tamilhum, Kovai tamilzhum nalla tamil. Sanga tamil kathukkinimai. Which ever way one expresses, i find that the present tamil spoken language has lost its pleasant ness in madras. Other parts of Tn still has that left. In Singapore and malaysia, they speak better Tamil than what we speak in madras or so called Chennai.
  
  
• From: Tamil Kavi (@ gwnj.utstar.com) on: Fri Oct 29 13:08:10 EDT 1999
  
  Kas :
  
  Dialects is a basis for songs. These days songs are written with/without any meaning. The music rendered also has a base on these dialects. So it is a right topic to discuss on TFM. By this discussion, it will reveal the best of one part of it.
  There are 'pattimandtram to discuss who is the best poet'. That does not mean that one poet is lower than the other. By such comparision, you get to know the best of a poet. So is this discussion.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Kas (@ pulsar.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 29 22:46:06 EDT 1999
  
  By linguists's standards such discussions are not appreciated for they tend to weigh one dialect against another - in bringing out the best in each dialect, there will surely be mention of the "lousy" qualities fo the other dialects and that will be the basis of comparison in the end.
  
  
• From: Kas (@ pulsar.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 29 22:48:52 EDT 1999
  
  Fine .. but by linguists' standards such comparisons are not appreciated. In bringing out the best of each dialect, the worst will also be highlighted - that in the end will usually end up as the basis of comparison. That's all - i personally feel that such comparisons do no justice to the other dialects discussed
  
  
• From: Pala (@ proxy.syd.iprimus.com.au) on: Tue Nov 2 06:43:16 EST 1999
  
  Tamil Kavi
  
  There was INA KALAVARAM(RACIAL WAR)
  There was MATHA KALAVARAM(RELIGIOUS WAR)
  Now you are inciting MOZHLI KALAVARAM!!!!!!
  
  Besides, I'm not sure dialect is the right terminology.Tamil itself is a dialect of INDIAN LANGUAGE.I think SLANG would be a more appropriate word-language in common informal use peculiar to profession,class or place.
  
  I fully agree with KAS's views.
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.142) on: Tue Nov 2 07:45:22 EST 1999
  
  Pala!
  It's crazy to call Thamizh as a `dialect'! It is one of the oldest, richest LANGUAGES of the world! (BTW,who on earth can say it's just an Indian language, when it's an official language of at least three countries in the world?)
  
  By your crazy definition, what is the `script' for your `Indian Language'? What is the phonetics? What are the grammar & literature for your IL?
  
  
• From: Tamil Kavi (@ gwnj.utstar.com) on: Tue Nov 2 10:19:38 EST 1999
  
  I see a point from Kas. I am not inciting any Mozhikalavaram? If that is the view of others, I tender my apology.
  However, I have a suggestions to make. Can we look at how each of these dialects have contributed to TFM?
  
  Pala, Kas,
  Could you listen to this song,
  Thanjaiyil pirandha meen kodiyai undan kankalil kandene ...
  Chera, Chola, pandia rajyam moondrum sendhadhu tamizhagam. So, we live in a multi lingual, multi slang, multi caste society. We should respect each part of it. We respect provided we know about it. So, I thought I start this.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Kas (@ milkyway.singnet.com.sg) on: Wed Nov 3 01:18:38 EST 1999
  
  Looking at the positive qualities of the dialects - as in how they contribute to TFM and the authenticity of songs and such will be a much better discussion topic ... :)
  
  
• From: Kas (@ galaxy.singnet.com.sg) on: Wed Nov 3 01:22:40 EST 1999
  
  Eden - why can't we say Tamil is an Indian Language? I am Indian - of the Indian race, but not born or bred in India; in fact, i have no relatives in India. It doesn't mean if something is called Indian, it belogns to India and India alone - it can be part of the influence, the culture, in this case the language ... that's how we percieve the meaning of INDIAN. :)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.133) on: Wed Nov 3 22:49:42 EST 1999
  
  Kas!
  I have nothing against `Indian'! It's just that terming such a rich language as Thamizh as just a dialect triggered me off!
  
  Moreover, there's no such thing as a single `Indian Language'! The nation India itself is a bigger `Babel', means a land of multiple languages! Obviously this is just a fact of history / geography and has nothing to do with emotions! That way the language Thamizh is much ancient to the relatively `new' country of India!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.133) on: Wed Nov 3 22:51:42 EST 1999
  
  Correction:
  
  Please read `much more ancient' in the last sentence!
  
  
• From: amma's thambee (@ proxy01.sat.ncle.hunterlink.net.au) on: Wed Nov 3 23:44:57 EST 1999
  
  nichayam , namba chennai vazh makkal pesum , thoooya koovam tamizh dhan sokkach sirandha thamizh.
  
  
• From: Pala (@ mel-0512-202.ports.iprimus.com.au) on: Thu Nov 4 04:39:06 EST 1999
  
  Eden
  
  I can understand your emotions on reading Tamizhl as a dialect of INDIAN LANGUAGE.I envy your patriotism to Tamizhl.I still stand by what I said.
  If you look from a broad spectrum, Tamizhl in one of the dialects in India;as well as Malayalam,Telugu,Kannadam,Maraathi and so on(would a Tamil Nadu M.P. be allowed to speak in Tamizhl in LOK SABA?)
  However exception to the rule is, Tamil could be called a language in Malaysia and Singapore;as these countries recognise Tamizhl as a recognised foreign language(this is only my view)
  
  I stressed on SLANG because,be in Chennai or Madurai or Trichy or Kumbakonam they all speak Tamizhl.The difference being in pronunciation and phonetics--still Tamizhl.
  The TV serial VIZHLUTHUGAL is a good example of contrast between well spoken Tamizhl and Koovam Tamizhl.
  
  Kas
  Thanx for shedding some light in this matter.
  
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.171) on: Thu Nov 4 17:20:05 EST 1999
  
  Pala :
  
  I wonder if tamizh can be called a dialect! IMHO, the roots have to be the same for dialects. I suppose that Kovai tamizh or Nellai tamizh or Chennai tamizh can at best be called dialects. But can Hindi, Bengali and Tamil be called dialects? What is the common thread that runs through them?
  
  By the way, there is less of tamizh and more of English in tamizh songs nowadays :-)
  
  
• From: Jay (@ 1cust11.tnt10.har1.da.uu.net) on: Thu Nov 4 19:52:51 EST 1999
  
  People used to think that there is no language barrier for music. But I can’t agree this. Music can not reach people without any medium. How can an ordinary man recognize and appreciate the music without language? What you people would understand in Kalyani and Kombothi? May be that could be highest form of appreciation which we can’t attain (at least me). TFM doesn’t mean that we should always chat about only MDs, that too boring music like Deva, what’s there to discuss about? For these two reasons, I appreciate this thread.
  
  
• From: Kasthuri (Kas) (@ pulsar.singnet.com.sg) on: Fri Nov 5 09:49:08 EST 1999
  
  No Problem - i study the English Language at the university (it is one of my majors) and we go through a lot of discussions on dialects, linguistic judgements, how language relates to national and social identity and so on. I am very interested in such discussions - i am actually glad that this thread exists :)
  Tata!
  
  
• From: Pala (@ mel-0305-008.ports.iprimus.com.au) on: Fri Nov 5 16:32:34 EST 1999
  
  Diwakar
  
  The various Tamizh spoken in different parts of Tamil Nadu is no different to the English spoken in USA,ENGLAND,SCOTLAND,IRELAND,WALES and AUSTRALIA.If the English spoken in different countries is called SLANG or ACCENT,why shouldnt Tamizh spoken differently be called SLANG?.In both instances the root is Tamizh and English-therefore it is more appropriate to call,in this case ,as SLANG.
  
  The closest comparison to Tamizh as a dialect of Indian Language would be to compare with Chinese Language.The Chinese have dialects such as Hokkien,Catonese,Hakka,Mandarin and so on-like Tamizh,Malayalam,Telugu,Punjabi,Kannadam and endless list.I'm not sure a common root is needed to be called dialect.The Chinese dialects do not have have common thred.
  I believe culturally there is common thred throughout India.Festivals,Celebrations and Auspicious days such as Ponggal and Deepavali(Diwali) are common link.Even epics such as Ramayanam(Valmiki in Hindi and Kambar in Tamizh)are common too.I'm not making any reference to Religion here-as this can be a sensitive subject.
  
  In summary,Tamizh is a dialect in India and it can be called a language in countries like Malaysia and Singapore(for reasons-in my previous posting).I stand to be corrected otherwise.
  
  Tamil Kavi
  
  I'm not aware of 'Tanjayil pirandha' song.If you could provide more info on this-I shall look it up.I was born and bred in Malaysia-and am not knowledged enough to comment on issues of Cheran,Cholan and Pandian till I gather more info.
  Sorry,much of this thred has been used up on discussing Dialects and Slang.
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.159) on: Sat Nov 6 07:33:52 EST 1999
  
  Pala, by your line of reasoning, English will be a `dialect' of the `European Language':-)
  
  My contention is there's no such thing called as an `Indian Language' unlike the `Chinese' and hence none of these two, i.e. Thamizh or Sanskrit can be called dialects! (Let's not consider the younger ones, like Hindi, Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam etc. now!)
  
  Let's accept the fact that Thamizh is a unique language, very unlike the other language of this region of the ancient past- the Sanskrit! Both have different set of alphabets (with basic differences in their pronunciation rules)! We can probably call the others as derivatives / mix of these two languages (Malayalam is the simplest one to prove this fact, being the youngest of all. In fact, it's accepted by all as a mix of Thamizh & Sanskrit, and can be equated to the `manipravaLa nadai' in Thamizh)!
  
  I repeat, Thamizh is a LANGUAGE, (DF'la idhaikkooda proof panna vEndiyirukku), an ancient one at that, which can be clarified with the tons of archeological evidences available! But not as ancient as claimed..`kal thondri, man thondrakkalaththadhu' illai...:-))
  
  

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