Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

The most scathing IR criticism ever, probably!

Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!

cyk


Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.

let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.

The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:

Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song

Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions

Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja

Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now

Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?

In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.

And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.

Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)

The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Tue Sep 5 03:04:35 EDT 2000
  
  nanban,
  
  what a shout! anyway, i am happy that so many have risen to IR's defence, but i am sure we can do it a much more dignified manner than you have. i understand the feelings you have for IR, but if u tone down your response, i'll be a lot happier.
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Tue Sep 5 04:51:37 EDT 2000
  
  Everybody gets these sort of feeling when the
  great man is being bashed by some unworthy peoples.
  
  
• From: nvd (@ 161.142.78.82) on: Tue Sep 5 05:16:06 EDT 2000
  
  Nanban, can you clarify further who is Kuppuswamy?
  
  
• From: Subbu (@ 192.39.71.67) on: Tue Sep 5 06:56:07 EDT 2000
  
  Who said IR is arrogant ? Pls read the following article. Can anyone dream about other MD's doing this ?
  http://www.anandhavikatan.com/10092000/av0501.htm
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Tue Sep 5 07:25:02 EDT 2000
  
  cram,
  As far as I know, Raja's carnatic guru is T V Gopalakrishnan (famous for his "aaah...." in andhimazhai pozhigiradhu ;-) )
  He does play mridangam apart from singing.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.148) on: Tue Sep 5 07:31:29 EDT 2000
  
  It's very clear that some guys are trying to benchmark their fav MD with IR, who's, say, kind of ISO in film music! This is often seen in their insecure postings like the one referred in the title of the thread...Hence it'd be unwise to respond to any such silly statements with big postings! Best thing is to say `LET THEM BE' and keep listening to the innumerable gems of Raja:-)
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Tue Sep 5 09:57:36 EDT 2000
  
  shankar,
  IR has had many carnatic gurus, but the gentleman I am referring to was among the first. TVG came into the picture much later.
  
  
• From: pg (@ 12.20.190.1) on: Tue Sep 5 10:04:55 EDT 2000
  
  The most moronic IR criticism ever, probably!
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue Sep 5 10:26:41 EDT 2000
  
  Subbu, to add, this is not the first time IR doing music for a short film he has done before like for 'boxer' a short film by editor lenin. I think its during those tight days.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Tue Sep 5 10:59:21 EDT 2000
  
  IR is the greatest composer ever in TFM and one of the finest human being in cine industry. He is more of an Introvert and the press has blown that out of proportion. Thats it.
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 195.107.47.196) on: Tue Sep 5 11:24:41 EDT 2000
  
  even more irritating than the above posting by an idiot was the response by Karthik appreciating this rubbish posting and congratulating pennathur(what a stupid pseudonym for a musical idiot)on his 'revelations'
  eden,well said-i have been really analyzing the postings of some of ARR fans whose postings are unnecessarily vehement about Raaja and I too had reached the same conclusion.It all boils down to insecurity about their idol.In the heart of hearts ,I think they truly appreciate the true worth of IR and the fact that ARR music,for all te current hype ,will remain,from point of views of creativity and originality ,is not worth at all in front of IR's genius.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Tue Sep 5 12:35:43 EDT 2000
  
  Just thought I would put in a broader perspective.
  The current social situation in TN values material success very highly. Nothing wrong with that but the means used to achieve this material success is not considered at all. Anybody, who can make money will be respected. Respect for quality work or honesty/ethics has gone to the winds. If you are in say, the Registrar dept (where you get a cut of every sale/buy because it is all done in black money) you will make more money and people will respect you. If you are into software, people respect you just for your dollar earning potential. If you are in say IncomeTax/Highways Dept people respect you for the money earning potential (read bribe). Nobody ever says, that such-a-such person is a good teacher,professor,carpenter/mason, engineer etc. In our craze for materialism we seem to have lost values. The advent of TV/internet has started the craze for 'Westernization'. Instead of leading to developement, we have started aping the west. In this melee there is lot of plagiarization of the west. How many movies, songs/music etc is original these days ? The percentage is very bad. People who blatantly copy are respected and given awards. How can in this atmosphere can somebody get to respect real talent and originality ?
  The lack of respect for true artistes, professionals is not there in our society any more or atleast it has gone drastically down. No wonder we see posters here deriding people like IR.
  Well..I digress too much or probably I am getting old :)
  
  
• From: unmai virumbi (@ 134.113.200.23) on: Tue Sep 5 15:20:01 EDT 2000
  
  Mr. Kiru
  
  Well said. At present there is total loss of morality ,ethics. And this trend is growing back home,thats the sad part of it. All the major metros in India are all the same,nonense topic,sex,alcohol,disco clubs and parents are having a tough time. I know people shouting what this got to do with music,well all arts are expression of ourselves and this also reflects whats going in our society currently.
  Anything foreign is good and anything local and native is cheap, such is the mentality of indians and not mention our beloved tamil people.
  When will they change God only knows!!
  IR music will transcend time thats for sure..
  Listening to those beautiful melodies like Alaigal oivathillai or kadal oviyam hats off to that man
  I also have attacked IR latest composition but not as this :(
  Unmai Virumbi
  
  
• From: nvd (@ 161.142.78.82) on: Tue Sep 5 23:15:29 EDT 2000
  
  Thanx Subbu.
  
  Again, you see, IR appreciated BR in his own way. And CYK is fooling us around.
  
  
• From: Joe (@ 129.57.11.216) on: Sun Sep 10 18:35:47 EDT 2000
  
  What the personalities and personal things of the musicians have to do with their music???
  
  If some one teaches IR how to use multi-track recording, it is a simple technical help. Why should IR acknowledge this when he talks about music?? (pbly that could be the only thing ARR can contribute to IR)
  
  
  ARR is easily approchable??? Oh boy, check this.
  
  
  ARR fans are MSVs fans! No wonder, ARR is so grateful to MSV as he is using MSVs old melodies.
  (Ex. ARR's 'Yenna Vilai AlzhakE' in Kathalar thinam--Thangap pathakkathin mele...by MSV)
  
  
  Joe
  
  
• From: amalraj (@ 203.199.220.231) on: Mon Sep 11 01:41:14 EDT 2000
  
  and in the punnagai mannan incident it was gangai amaran who said something about this. probably ARR would have just conducted the songs or the BGM which comes before kamalsays i lov u to revathy. it was this BGM gangai amaran refered. more clarification please
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments