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Why Double standards?

Topic started by Sundar (@ 203.197.144.217) on Mon Jun 18 06:01:24 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Why is that whenever ARR blantantly copies like "naadha vindhu kalaadi namonama" in his enveetu thottathil(gentleman)it is called inspiration. Whenever DEVA does something like suprabhatham in "garuda Garuda" it is called Copying.There are many more examples of ARR cutting pasting from Folk songs, old MSVR etc.,

Why this Double standard ? The highly acclaimed ARR is the one who really started doing this on a large scale.
why blame deva only.

Sundar

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Responses:

• From: Athi (@ 24.182.219.105) on: Mon Jun 18 23:22:45 EDT 2001
  
  Sundar,
  
  You are inviting trouble for yourself. In this forum, ARR's music can't be criticized and there are people who get emotional about ARR's ability to recycle(to give you an example) and praise his marketing abilities.
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Tue Jun 19 12:58:45 EDT 2001
  
  I don't know how long people are going to blaber out of desperation.,
  "Naadhavindu" song is based on senchurutti raagam. I am a CM illitrate but I knew this. Also, this raagam is apt of all bajanai kind of songs. Many murugan songs are based on this.
  
  "En veettu thottaththil" is also based on same raagam. When asked in one interview about this song ARR replied that , since the story happens in an iyer house, he thought that such a raaga might be apt. What's wrong in this?
  Going by your standards, then we should brand the "sollayo vaai thirandhu" of mogamul as copy of "vilayaada idhu nerama" keerthanai. Again, you will end up no where, if you keep doing so.
  
  
  
• From: Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 12.92.216.62) on: Tue Jun 19 14:03:19 EDT 2001
  
  Ayya,
  
  Oru simple example.
  
  Vellai Kaarana paarthu naamum adhe maadhiri 'pant' vaangi pottal, adhu inspiration.
  
  Aduthavan aasaiya vaangiya potta pant-i thirudikkittu vandhuttal, adhu copy.
  
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Jun 19 16:26:51 EDT 2001
  
  Pozhudhu pogadhavan ,
  
  good example!
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Tue Jun 19 16:36:18 EDT 2001
  
  Athi,
  
  i cud say " oru maina maina" a recycle of "vennilavu kothipathenna"
  
  I also heard "yamunai aatrile" was also from a krishna bhajan ( although unsubstantiated I may add)
  
  something we make a judgement as excusable.. based on our liking towards a music director and taste..
  
  deva will be excused by nobody.. sucha consensus of opinion means something actually
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Wed Jun 20 10:07:35 EDT 2001
  
  bharath,
  there are examples IR recycling few songs I agree. But you have work to get better examples. The songs you are talking about dont have any connection.
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Jun 20 11:23:51 EDT 2001
  
  kk,
  
  what do mean they have no connection... plz listen to "maina.. maina" and "vennilavu kothipathenna" from chinna mappilai and then talk
  
  //"dont have any connection."//
  
  if thats not obvious then nothing is...
  
  
• From: Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 12.92.216.235) on: Wed Jun 20 14:15:37 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  Both the songs have similar rythm stle not the tune as such.
  
  If you happened listen Innisai Mazhai, there is one song "Hello Hello Come On Come On" is an exact replicate of "Roja Poo Aadi Vandhadhu" of Agninatchathiram.
  
  
• From: bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Jun 20 16:00:51 EDT 2001
  
  Pozhuthu Pogathavan..
  u r correct abt "maina maina". But I consider rhythm style also to be imp for a person of IR stature....
  
  I am sorry I havent listened to "Innisai Mazahi" whenwas it released and who stars in that movie?
  
  
• From: Pozhudhu pogadhavan (@ 12.92.218.110) on: Wed Jun 20 16:23:56 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  Its difficult for any music directors to give unique rythm for each song.
  
  There are certain universal set of rythms,
  
  eg.,
  
  1.Swing
  2.Triplet
  3.Waltz
  4.Biola
  5.Soul
  6.Half Soul
  7.March Past etc.,
  
  MD's can change its style little bit according to their taste.
  
  Innisai Mazhai was released in 1992 produced and directed by Shoba Chandrasekar.
  
  FYI,
  
  Deva has used the same rythm of "Masi Maasam" in Kattipudi Kattipudida. It doesn't mean he copied that tune. (Infact, may be from some other tune????).
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Jun 20 17:54:23 EDT 2001
  
  oh! okay I didnt mean that way. The beats in both songs as well as the harmonium ( i guess) accompaniying the beats are exactly similar. He has just stripped th voice and made another voice sing a different tune...with all BG music being the same...
  
  
• From: set (@ 213.104.72.170) on: Wed Jun 20 19:10:39 EDT 2001
  
  Sundar,
  Sevuthula poyee thalaya mutti paru, appo puriyum.... why arr is forgiven and why everyone comes to his defense
  
  
• From: swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Jun 20 22:11:48 EDT 2001
  
  >>>>>>
  oh! okay I didnt mean that way. The beats in both songs as well as the harmonium ( i guess) accompaniying the beats are exactly similar. He has just stripped th voice and made another voice sing a different tune...with all BG music being the same...
  >>>>>>>
  
  I don't understand why people never admit if they don't know about something. The BGMS in those two are totally different. If you have questions it is not wrong to ASK!! Simple!
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Jun 20 22:20:40 EDT 2001
  
  Pozhudu pogadhavan: Just a small correction. Triplet is not a rythm style, but just a grouping of 3 in the measure of two.
  Every rythm (or style) is not only just fixed set of beats in a measure, but also the kind of instruments you use. Rock, or Pop ballad - or Country ballad have the same counts per measure - that is 8. But they have different instruments arranged in a unique way. Country ballads have the characteristic "hawaiian" slide, and phrased to fill in. Whereas the same fill-ins in rock would be perhaps a muted guitar or acoustic guitar - things keep changing. Listen to sheryl crow and you would be zapped to know theres so many styles fused in. Well the point is, if you use enough imagination you can even make similar sounding beat arranged differently.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Thu Jun 21 12:51:33 EDT 2001
  
  okay swamiji!
  
  are u saying that "oru maina maina" and "vennilavu" have nothing in common. If u say they have something in common then let me know what its is?
  
  I have asked the question? now answer?
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Jun 21 13:03:30 EDT 2001
  
  I think the preludes of both the songs are same.(if nothing more)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Jun 21 13:04:52 EDT 2001
  
  Correction:
  same should be similar.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Jun 21 13:14:57 EDT 2001
  
  ARR normally gets inspired from lot of stuff. He recycles from one album to another.Two of the best examples I know are
  
  ottagatha from Gentleman was heavily inspired from a private telugu album by Raj-Koti duo with whom ARR worked for a while. this was later informed by the duo themselves.
  
  everybody knows that the tune of song Porale ponnu from karuthamma was used for a song in Vandemataram.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Thu Jun 21 14:39:19 EDT 2001
  
  I think porale ponnu thayee is a brilliant song.. and deserved more popularity...
  
  I think ARR blatantly remade the song.. which only states that he might've been unsatisfied with the popularity of that song..( even though it won the national award for s.latha)
  
  its only when u do sneakily can u call someone a copycat etc..
  
  in the days of colgate, colgate plus, colgate germi check formulae.. colgate safe guard, verum colgate .. vellam potta colgate... kind of marketing scenario where the same stuff is rotated in different names..
  
  I dont think this is a big deal...i just ignore something which i feel is blatantly repeated.. i just think of it as some one making the same point twice... people who got it the first time ignore it other people listen to it... thats all..
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Jun 21 14:51:42 EDT 2001
  
  Just the beat is same. Not the melody, or any of the inter-pre-post ludes.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Thu Jun 21 16:09:00 EDT 2001
  
  The similarity between "en veettu thOttaththil" and "naadha vindhu kalaa" doesn't stop with the senchurutti raagam. The swarams (notes) of the pallavi are virtually the same. ARR did the same trick when he used endharO mahaanubhaavulu...for andhi maalai kOyil vandhEn. Unless expressly recognized as a willful inspiration on the album cover, there is an effort to get credit from the ignorant, which tantamounts to copy. It doesn't matter who does it - IR, ARR, Deva, or SAR.
  
  Anyway, why are we discussing this away from the Copying thread. I think these songs have lready been discussed there.
  
  
• From: Saravanan (@ 64.220.209.210) on: Thu Jun 21 16:37:54 EDT 2001
  
  I totally agree with sundar. Whenever ARR does something, it's called inspiration and if others do the same kind of thing in their songs, they will be criticized like anything. I hate this kind of double standard. ARR fans are too fanatic to the extent of not accepting this simple concept. If SAR copies suprabhatham for the song in nee vauvaai ena, these people will laugh at him. At the same time, ARR does a clumsy copying of his own song of kaadhalar dhinam ( saranam of thaandiyaa aatam ) for padayappa ( saranam of sutthi sutthi vandheega ), it's an excellent BLEND!?! It's highly irritating to see the example given by pozhuthu pogathavan. What r u coming to say? ARR got inspiration from other's songs and others are copying?!!! All these MDs are doing the same thing. Ithula pant-a thirudiyavan, athae maathiri vaangi poattavan appidinnu classification ellaam kidayaathu. Theft is theft, even it's made by the great IR!
  If u dont have the guts to accept it, it's ur problem and pl. dont give some cheap reasons just to support ur beloved MD's copy cat activities. If u treat copying done by ARR is a greatest thing in this world, keep it with u. Dont tell others are copying and ARR never copies but got inspired!!! It's really fun to hear these nonsenses! I still wonder how come he gets inspired for almost 70% of his songs!!!!???
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Thu Jun 21 17:57:17 EDT 2001
  
  RajaG, I am not sure about the "andhi maalai" song.. I thought comment said sometime back that the album was done by someone else and they just used ARR's name and for which ARR was planning to sue them or something like that..
  
  anyway it was too blatant a copy and its a little difficult to believe that ARR would have done a ctrl C and V..:-))
  
  But ARR has definitely been inspired in many songs of his and as you have pointed out some songs do bear more than slight resemblances to old ones that indicate that they were not entirely his creation..
  
  

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