Topic started by OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on Mon Apr 15 02:26:51 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Shyam Benegal: You were accomplished in cinematic grammar from the start. How did you get the Tamil audiences (habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric) to transcend conventional ways of looking at cinema?
THE HINDU - Chat with Mani Ratnam
Following is the original, for which Mr.Benegal has taken pains to translate it into English!Thanks Benegal Saab!
From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Mon Apr 8 11:09:19 EDT 2002
Bollwood was magnanimous enough to give Sivaji Ganesan the Dadasaheb Phalke award ahead of Mamta Kularni and Deepak Tijouri.
You southies always complain.
Let me list out what we Bollwood have :
We have 700+ territories with 80% of them in Bihar/MP/UP.Bahut pade log hai uthar .. 4th class!
We have Anu malik,NS,SD,JL .Thumara Rehman competer megeek martha hai!Ithar Sab original hai!
We have sophisticated Star material in Rahul Roy,Saif Ali khan ,Esha Deol ,Bobby deol to name a few. Pehle hamare paas Ranjit,Jeetendar,Dharmindar ,Rajendra Kumar ,Jagdeep tha!Madrasi log Rajinikant ke peche pade hei! Vo kali beedi martha hai!
We have talented directors like Mahesh Bhatt,raj Kanwar who make original movies.Dekh! Criminal film was Bhatt Saab s autobiography!
We have the best dancer in Sanjay Dutt!Thumara Prabhu Deva acha natchtha hai lekin sanju baba ka steps isse badiya hai.Woh kamal ka aadmi hai,Langda ka Role be kiya isne!
Sadhanaji ka hair ishtyle Stefi Graf ne copy kiya!
Asha Parekhji bahuti decent our Kamyabi thi.So we made her the censor board chairperson.Tomorrow we are going to elect Pooja Bhatt or Mamata Kularni for the post but you will still complain.
Hamara Salman ka muscles... Awaz nahe mangtha!Iska Nasional Geogrphy channel may be chance mila !
Hamara Amir Dhai lakh dollar Karcha kiya.Kai ke liye!Bharat ko ek AShkar milne keliye.Tumara Maniratnam kiniratnam aisa karega kya!Ashkar kali gora log jeethraha hai!
Hamre paas Kumar Sanu hai!Vo Mu se nahi Nak se Gaath hai!Thumara SPB kya ..hamesha mu se gatha hai!Sanu da ka kaam kitna mushkil malum hai kya?
Amitab ..kya aadmi hai..kitna hoshyari our buddhiman he!Ishtar TV dekh!Usko sabi jawab malum hai Phir be Roz Lakhon rupiya karcha kartha hai!Kabhi kabhi Karodo rupiya be!Isilye isko "Pershonalty of the year" mila.Agale saal hum Abishek ko denewale hai.Baath ho gaya!
Sabse uppar Hamare paas Johnny lever hai!we have instituted Dada Saheb Kondke award and we are giving johnny the award this year.Tum log be koshish karlo yaar!Kondke saaab ka "Diya Tere haath me" "Kol de teri Zuban" film ko Angrez log ne Ashkar nai diya!Kya film hai!
Clerk naam pe ek philm hamare Manoj Kumar saab ne kiya.Isse bada comedy film kaun banayega?
Responses:
- From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.186)
on: Mon Apr 15 07:23:15 EDT 2002
Good one.
But I found it difficult to read. Can you make it in english so that we can enjoy your sarcasm
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Mon Apr 15 08:38:07 EDT 2002
OISG:
Somehow I found this snippet difficult to understand. Who exactly said the above and when? In which newspaper/article.
who ever has said >>Bollwood was magnanimous enough to give Sivaji Ganesan the Dadasaheb Phalke award ahead of Mamta Kularni and Deepak Tijouri. <<
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Mon Apr 15 09:11:50 EDT 2002
I have tried to elaborate the general feeling Bollywood carries about Tamil cinema and its artistes.
To answer AVR s question -"No one said but every Bollywoodie feels that way"
It is irritating that a man like Benegal should pass unwarranted comments on the Tamil audience when you know that the entire Bollywood thrives on Bihar/UP with its lion share of Lallus.
Rhetoric..Theatarical..histrionics ...What about Gaddar,your blockbuster of 2001?It was a shameless exhibition of crude cinema patronised by audience all over the north.An audience patronising such a movie in the 21st century are only fit for the caves and stone age.
Bollywood and its inmates live in fools paradise.
I feel that Benegal s statment is an insult to all of us.I am aghast that MR has not protested against this stupid question degrading the entire tamil mass.
Common friend,the real sarcasm lies in the language i have used.I feel a transalation would dilute the issue.
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.156)
on: Mon Apr 15 09:44:14 EDT 2002
I thought shyam benegal was the last person to represent Bollywood. And gimme a break , shyam benegal has been making better movies than MR.He has been in the movies longer than MR and he is fully qualified to talk about cinema.
sarat
- From: S (@ 128.107.253.44)
on: Mon Apr 15 09:44:46 EDT 2002
OISG,
Don't think MR would champion our cause !
He wudn't..for he too is one of those morons who wants to make it big in the North (calling it a national recognition and all that is Bull !!). Adoor or padmarajan never tried any such things.
They knew their stuff and were given their due credit
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.156)
on: Mon Apr 15 09:45:05 EDT 2002
I think shyam benegal is the last person u shd think of to represent Bollywood . And gimme a break , shyam benegal has been making better movies than MR.He has been in the movies longer than MR and he is fully qualified to talk about cinema.
sarat
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Mon Apr 15 09:55:41 EDT 2002
OISG, are u saying that
1) Tamil audiences are NOT habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric. Hence Shyam Benegal was wrong to ask such a question.
OR
2) Tamil audiences are indeed habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric. But so are the Northies. Hence, Shyam Benegal is still wrong to ask such a question.
I also want to know if anywhere along, he made any statement which implied that he felt other Indian audiences were not habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric like the Tamil audience.
btw, I need translation as well.
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Mon Apr 15 10:07:00 EDT 2002
Sarat
Talking about cinema is one thing but making stupid comments about the audience for whom he has never made a movie is gross arrogance.What are his credentials to comment about Tamil Cinema ,its audience?Let him comment about American ,Spanish ,Mexican audience .For them too, he has never made a movie also his magnum opus movies never got released in the theatres there.
Infact i cant recall a Shyam Benegal movie getting released in a theatre in TN.
Oh! He had the biggest theatre .. the DELHI BABU S Doordarshan to release his movies..Boy!thats what i call imposing..!
Let him a Parallel ,Bell Bottom,Tights,Baggie film in Tamil first.
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155)
on: Mon Apr 15 10:25:21 EDT 2002
OISG
AFAI can make out from what he has said, he only says that tamil audiences were habituated to watching movies with theatricality, rhetoric and histrionics and I dont think you need to make any tamil movies or movies for tamil audiences to say that. All you have to do is to watch a Sivaji/Kamal/Rajini movie. And it is a fact that MR started making movies not relying solely on T/R/H. To make people watch a kind of movie that they are not used to watching and to influence other people to make similar kind of movies is no mean achievement.
I dont see what you are trying to prove by attacking SHyam Benegal. I dont recall a benegal movie releasing in a theater anywhere in india in recent years (exc Zubeida). Be thankful that atleast you get to see them on DD.
- From: ROTFL (@ 210.186.51.118)
on: Mon Apr 15 10:41:47 EDT 2002
OISG
I have read the above somewhere else, some time ago and I think it was a sarcastic comment and was not to be taken seriously. In fact, it was not Shyam Benegal who made the comment but some general public.
Where is the source?
- From: GV (@ 207.236.25.201)
on: Mon Apr 15 10:51:54 EDT 2002
Here's the full interview:
http://hinduonnet.com/thehindu/fr/2002/04/12/stories/2002041201050100.htm
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Mon Apr 15 10:58:51 EDT 2002
In these days of globalisation MR has managed to make films with acceptability across the nation.But we always had Sridhar,Mahendran who had made better movies than MR.Uthiri pookal and Sumaithangi were well received by the tamil audience.When you were watching Qurbani TN was with Uthiri Pookal and Mullum Malarum.So,
Atleast in TN MR has not broken any new ground.
Lets wriggle out the annoying stuff from that question and see what it means...
"habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric"
Indian cinema itself is based on these platforms.Only difference is that in Tamil it is subtler.In Hindi you always had the overdose of these,added to the other standard illogical factors.How many sivaji/Kamal/Rajini movies you had seen?I can simply counter this by stating everyone of Jeetendra movies.But the story does not end there.
Tamil cinema has made better strides in terms of music screenplay and technology even during 60s.It is more pronounced now and has a got a better media exposure now.
Coming back,how does Benegal come to the conclusion- "habituated" is a wrong word?A sratight question without ( ...) would have showed his maturity.
A man who never reached out to the audience commenting about them is plain and simple immaturity.It is like the Europeans and Americans ask you about Snake charmers on the road.Benegal alas! falls in the same category.
He is guilty not because of his Ignorance about Tamil cinema and its audience but passing a callous uncalled for comment.
Dont worry! Next Dada Sahib Palke is for him! for having the maximum releases on DD and abusing Tamil audience.
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155)
on: Mon Apr 15 11:12:50 EDT 2002
Lets wriggle out the annoying stuff from that question and see what it means...
"habituated to theatricality, histrionics and rhetoric"
Indian cinema itself is based on these platforms.Only difference is that in Tamil it is subtler.
tamil cinema and subtle?
?????
- From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Mon Apr 15 11:18:45 EDT 2002
Yeah
You can t fool Tamil audiences with a dacoit passing judgement in the court
"Ganga Pavithr hai" and for sure the mob wont come back with "Ganga Matha ki Jai"
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155)
on: Mon Apr 15 11:19:00 EDT 2002
I dont see why you are comparing hindi and tamil cinema. Im sure if you dig up all of benegal's interviews in the past, you will find him talking about the hindi movies and saying nasty things about them. The point he was making, which I think is very valid, is that tamil audiences were used to watching movies containing T,R & H and MR did something different. Where am I or he saying or even hinting that Qurbani is better than Mullum Malarum, or that Jeetendra is less theatrical than Sivaji?
- From: sarat (@ 128.192.5.157)
on: Mon Apr 15 11:30:40 EDT 2002
You can t fool Tamil audiences with a dacoit passing judgement in the court
"Ganga Pavithr hai" and for sure the mob wont come back with "Ganga Matha ki Jai"
How does that make tamil cinema any subtler?
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