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What is the contribution of ARR to film music in the past 10 years

Topic started by musician (@ 211.28.96.9) on Mon Jun 10 07:14:46 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Sun Jun 23 00:08:49 EDT 2002
  
  Thanks OISG !
  
  Yaaro...
  
  Let's take at least 10 films from the year IR did his 54 films and list out all the songs, even list out them and catch the repeated and re-inspired bits ! I am sure it is there. After all this is film music with many similar situations not rocket science.
  
  I repeat that the intention is not to put down IR's genius but only to take an objective view of film music.
  
  The market then and today are very different.
  
  IR didn't have so much of market segmentation like today to contend with and he had almost a virgin territory with his fusion of western classical and tamil folk.
  
  Very much what ARR had to his advantage when he started infusing his music with a lot of contemporary western genres.
  
  But ARR's bad luck is that to be different and keep up with the times, he has to use technology which is also easily available to others.
  
  Otherwise IR has already extensively exhausted popular combinations of tamil tunes already and entrenched himself into our psyches by giving us a new grammar and meaning with his original sounds. It's like when you hear Beethoven's Pastoral, you can visualize, say a calm Bavarian or German countryside with sheep grazing etc. And when you hear IR's exclusive fusion combination, it at once helps us picture our own landscapes...mainly rural.
  Urban music...you have to hand it to ARR.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Sun Jun 23 02:06:34 EDT 2002
  
  To make myself a bit more clearer, what I am trying to say is that if you analyze all the 52/54 movies of IR in that peak year, you will fiind that he used a certain type of orchestrations again and again, cerain type of bass lines, typical electric guitar fill-ins, certain tabla beats, string arrangements...a certain combination of flute with strings...these are typical IR styles and patterns...this is what enables us to distinguish his music from the rest.
  
  The problem is when ARR does that we call it repetitive and recycled.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Sun Jun 23 02:20:18 EDT 2002
  
  >>Urban music...you have to hand it to ARR. <<
  
  Thinking back..the above statement of mine is very subjective..let me add IMHO.
  
  Digressions :
  Guess I am the only one here working on Sat-Sun (Dubai weekends are Thu-Fri)...explains my continuous postings..gives me a lot of time to think and rethink.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.50.168) on: Sun Jun 23 03:43:12 EDT 2002
  
  cosmician,
  what is current sounds always urban-msv must have sounded urban to our dads when he was at his peak.I think our music always evolves with the western contemporary music.raja raja sri raman from ooty varai sounds so urban to me-when IR was at his peak,he was integrating these into his music-ennadi meenatchi sounded so urban at that time-raaja rajadhi rajan sounded so urban in late 80's-in his own way ennai thalatta varuvalo sounded so urban in late 90's.ARR is following the same pattern with the mtv idioms introducing new standards in recording and even the tunes have changed so much-they are all so short .I was discussing this long time ago when I mentioned 2 nos of ARR which are so IR ish are -I like these songs very much!-kadhal kadidham from jodi and kadhal enum thervezhudhi from KD.some one had explained why these tunes are not so typical ARR.these are long tunes.
  another reason why ARR sounds so modern-his repeated use of singers who sing as if they do not know how to sing tamil.he uses them for his nos when he wants them to sound urbanish-or he himself sings them.when he wants them for classical based songs,he uses singers with good pronounciation like sujatha or jayachandran-he is not a fool when it comes to selecting singers.he knows this is one of the reasons why his songs ound urbanish.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 213.150.188.254) on: Sun Jun 23 07:23:57 EDT 2002
  
  IR by 1984-85 had to do the balancing act between Rajini & Kamal.For eg:
  
  Ilamai Itho ido (SKV)- Poomalai oru pavai(thangamangan)
  varuthu varuthu - un mela oru kannu
  
  Then there was this movie "Nyayam" which had the replica of Sakalakalavallavan and Mundhanai mudichu.But Nyayam added a number anyway!
  
  If you start counting there will be plenty.IR was treading the MSV s path of 1975s.(You can here the same piece in Iniyavale -sivagamiyin selvan and vizhiye kathai ezhuthu - Urimaikural)A path os self destruction....
  
  ARR was responsible for the re entry of lesser used intruments(during IR days) like sarangi,dilruba,Sitar,Accordian etc.( Shenai is still long overdue)The new sounds of distorted guitar,metallic flute,Oud are helped him establish his style.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 213.150.188.254) on: Sun Jun 23 07:26:10 EDT 2002
  
  Sorry!In the above post Language oothikichu.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Mon Jun 24 03:03:56 EDT 2002
  
  Good observations Yaaro, OISG !
  
  Concerning ARR's attempts to sound different from IR or more 'urbanish', remember (I think it was early 80s where for "Alaigal Oiyvadhillai" in the Kaadhal Oviyum song) IR had used a choir for the church chorus part. That sounded very modern.
  
  But for "Anjali", I felt that the chorus in many of the songs were a big let down and sounded too rural, not standing up to the 'urban-feel' the songs were supposed to potray.
  
  That's why ARR's choruses (eg. in the Mustafa song, Kannum Kannum song from Thiruda Thiruda etc.) were so 'cool' sounding !
  
  Now why didn't IR do this earlier ? My feeling is mostly because he is more of a classical artist than a showman !
  
  ARR stems from an advertising background where everything is judged and given according to what the consumer wants or aspires for.
  
  I am not saying that one approach is greater than the other. Just that that is the way they like to approach their music. Both can have a meaning and a depth if it is done in the correct balance. IR and ARR both have achieved it. ARR coming in at a time of major changes has been catapulted into different arenas.
  
  Actually I used to love the rhythm sections in the interludes of many of IR' songs from the late 80s and early 90s and used to think that these rhythms themselves could be used for a complete song. And that's what ARR did, bringing similar but electronic rhythms when he came on to the scene.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.227) on: Mon Jun 24 11:32:05 EDT 2002
  
  cosmician..why are we talking about IR instead of ARR here ? Have you also become an ARR fan ? :)Anyways, you know what I know about ARR's composing style. Here is some new theory that I want you to validate/give feedback.
  I think ARR uses percussion in a different way - it is just used for rhythm, not thAlam. For eg. in the song poongkARRilE ..un swasaththai the drum is used for thalam the traditional way, but in thaiya thaiya it is used in a different way..same case in the kannathil muththamitAL song.
  
  I think this is the main reason people find ARR songs different. New instruments/sounds are just one of the contributors to ARR's success there are much more fundamental reasons which make him sound fresh/different that people like him for.
  
  (I was watching these pages during the weekend and very few people here..man ..everybody must be having a fun weekend :))
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 213.150.188.44) on: Mon Jun 24 13:43:29 EDT 2002
  
  Kiru
  
  All MHO
  
  ARR has developed for himself a sort of clarity to decide on which one of the compoenets of the song is going to "LEAD" the song.Egs
  1.Lyrics - En Mel vizhuntha Mazhai Thuliye
  2.Picturisation - Telephone Mani pol
  3.Interludes - En Kathale En Kathale
  4.Rhythm - Chayya Chaiyya
  5.Script - Vidukathaya intha vazhkai
  
  The song gets developed from the prime component.The novelty additions like an Accordian lead or a Fallaghi or a Natta Kurinji usage are decided at this stage.
  
  Ofcourse an absolute understanding with the Director is essential.The Director s Specs play a key role and because he is ARR he gets to decide the prime component.This could be the reason for his speed(!) and working with the few directors who know their job.Hence he always gets a chance to BUILD his songs layer by layer.
  
  the director clearly inspired by ARR puts that extra like the pictuisation for the Song 1 mentioned above and in the end you get a memorable product.
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Mon Jun 24 14:17:42 EDT 2002
  
  OISG..you have provided a valuable insight/perspective. I think I understand your point.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Mon Jun 24 15:44:01 EDT 2002
  
  ARR is the brought the trend of using hi-fi communications to compose songs. Sitting in London, telling the tune to lyricist by phone, lyricist faxing the lyric, then ARR sending the music over, singers singing their track in a different studio in chennai. Finally back to ARR for fine tuning to give the final product.
  
  May be he scores BGM by video conferencing.
  World is small nowadays. This is how music composed for a song in BABA ( lyricist vaali)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Jun 24 16:09:48 EDT 2002
  
  ARR is the brought the trend of using hi-fi communications to compose songs. this is no big deal. go to the amateur composers threads and find out how they do their work! [nArAyaNA, nArAhaNA :-)]
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Tue Jun 25 04:58:20 EDT 2002
  
  Hi Kiru ! Long time no hear !
  
  Sorry..I just couldn't resist my analytical-creative juices flow in this thread ! BTW I am a fan of both right ? It stems from a strange mix.
  
  To explain, I have to digress a bit, pls bear with me :
  
  The first time I really listened to Tamil music properly was with IR's Agni Natchathiram..(I was 15 years old then) the 'Raja' song inspired me to try to become a composer myself (haven't made much headway there).
  
  My listening interest also broadened in the next few years...I loved electronica and pop groups that mostly impressed me were A-HA and the Pet Shop Boys...all along I was expecting IR also to include such kind of electronic sounds in his music.
  
  
  I entered college and ARR broke out on the scene....so naturally I found that he had got in the missing link I was looking for but alas without the real instrument orchestration and creativity of IR ! Guess we can't have it all.
  
  So I am able to quench my thirst for quality music on both sides !
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Tue Jun 25 05:02:26 EDT 2002
  
  Good point OISG !
  
  That's what I read in an article about how he composed music for Lagaan. He was there at the shooting site trying to take in the atmosphere, the sound and the smells and get a feel of the period he was supposed to compose for.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Tue Jun 25 05:06:16 EDT 2002
  
  Kiru,
  
  Though I am not music literate about 'thaalam'. YOu are right there...ARR's strength lies in the catchy rhythms and basslines. Actually as I'd mentioned earlier IR too had these in many of his song interludes.
  
  

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