Topic started by oosai (@ 63.115.132.3) on Wed Dec 19 16:13:04 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Hey everyone,
I like to write to this forum every once in awhile, and here's my newest question: Is ARR losing his talent?
Here's my answer:
Although ARR is, in my opinion, someone who can break the mold with the occassionally great music, he is sinking fast!
Here are some of my complaints:
I hate the way he is signing up for a lot of movies. He apparently can't handle that stress and the amount of work it calls for. Although he may be able to write ten songs for Mani Ratnam or Shankar in one night, this means one of two things: (1) 9 of the songs will be horrible, or (2) songs for his other movies will suffer. Maybe he is in a slump this year because he has to write awesome tunes for "Bombay Dreams" and is therefore lacking songs for the tamil and hindi audiences.
I hate the fact that he is recycling tunes for his tamil/hindi movies. Even though some people justify this as saying that the directors are begging him for music and ASK him for old tunes, ARR should have the integrity NOT to do it. The movie director for "Jodi" and "Star" has asked for this, and i suppose so have the directors for "Pukar" and "Thakshak." All these movies have reused songs, and it personally makes me sick. ("Nayak" was a remake of the tamil "Mudhalvan," so reusing songs in this instance is ok) If he writes bad songs, at least he is being original and not just copying himself.
Have you listened to the songs in "Paarthale Paravasam"? Well--I don't know what many of you are talking about when you call them good music! I mean, who are we kidding? Almost all of the songs are complete stinkers! The only songs that I think are even frankly interesting are "Azhage Sugama" and the title song. Although the title song took a few listenings to, I ended up liking it--think of it as a guilty pleasure (I, personally, would never admit to liking that song in front of my friends or family--it would be too embarrassing). "Azahge Sugama" is strange because although I like it, it sounds like a million other songs that I've heard before.
So, is ARR losing his talent? May be not. He may just be in a slump to think up good songs. I mean, how many of you remember the year when he came out with "Ratchagan," "Jeans" and "Dil Se/Uyire"? I thought I was hearing music that would go into the history books as being the best indian music, ever! But, in that year, he only did like 3-4 movies. The past few years, I guess he has become more money-hungry and is going after nearly ten movies a year.
I think none of us want to admit that ARR is making bad songs. I know that I will get many responses to this post, but I think that in the back of your minds, you all agree with me--you just do not want to admit it. ARR has always been someone that I could've counted on for great music, but in the past few years, he hasn't been on a great streak.
He has grown old before his time, and hopefully, he can get out of the slump. Although a few of his recent songs can still be considered beauties (e.g. "Radha ke se na jale" from LAGAAN), most of them fit into the "forgettable" category.
I respect him, as I do Illayaraja, for all his past good musics, but.....would I listen to his music with the same awe? sadly, I must say....no.
Well, what do you all think?
(Please, none of us want to, nor should, see insults in this discussion group--just intelligent conversation, thank you)
--Karthik1
Courtesy : www.rahmanonline.com
Author: Karthik1
Mon Dec 17 00:34:22 2001
An interesting posting by Karthik. What do you guys think?.
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230)
on: Thu Dec 20 09:50:34 EST 2001
musicfan,
"Naturally he must be feeling quite nervous which is showing in his recent releases."
On the contrary, I think he is being more playful and experimental.Though Rahman is going to be critically analyzed severely for his "Bombay Dreams", I think he treats that and his Film projects separately(or independent of each other).
Though Paarthaale Paravasam is not widely appreciated, this seems like a intermediate step for him towards assessing his own music.This makes me more curious as to what he's going to do next.I like the fact he must have had fun composing atleast few of the songs for PP.
Though competion to an extent spurs people for greater things, I think Rahman just goes on whether the person composing next to him is "Mozart" or "myself":).
I still think PP as a album with a unique blend.
All,IMO.
- From: Karthi (@ 64.105.35.205)
on: Thu Dec 20 13:50:42 EST 2001
Talent ??? What talent ??
- From: musicfan (@ 172.188.108.211)
on: Thu Dec 20 19:15:22 EST 2001
Normal Man,
It is quite obvious that Rahmans success was based on the number of cassettes that were sold, the directors who went to him ‘begging’, the number of awards that he won, the number of times that his songs were aired in the MTV type satellite channels in India. It is clear that Ilayaraaja lost out on all these accounts. So, you are welcome to buy the points you want to.
Trend Man,
<<<<<<>>>>>>
How can someone who wants to create something, treat one different from another? Creativity transcends film music and Bombay dreams. If he doesn’t trust his own sense of Creation, then he is heavily reliant on the public to decide what his worth is. Very Sad.
<<<<<>>>>>>>>
Why should someone who creates want to throw something to the public to assess his creativity? Very funny. I thought that a Creator would know how to control his creations the way he would want to, no matter what the mortals would think of it. And also the fact that he was sure of his creation before he sought the confirmation of his disciples to say that what he created is true to his earlier creations. Trend, I understand your subjectivity as much I do with mine. But, I hope, your subjectivity is not due to <<<<<<>>>>
<<<<<<>>>>>>. This very clearly shows the extent that you have understood Mozart, as much as you think that history can be competition for contemporary. It is easy to compete with establishment represented by history, but do you realizes the level of competition with a living Mozart if you were to live with the fear that he can do something better than you. You don’t have the insight (which I thought you had from your previous postings in these forums). So, think before you respond to me.
Inspite of anything that anyone would want to say, Rahman is the child we nurtured with the belief that MUSIC had HOPE after Ilayaraja, let’s nurture him. Let’s encourage him in everyway we can, since he has been the only product of Ilayaraja’s influence to capture the imagination of the public - more than his own sons.
Shall we stop this war between IR-ARR for the sake of a musicfan, …….
- From: musicfan (@ 172.188.108.211) on: Thu Dec 20 19:26:15 EST 2001
Trend Man, a Special Posting for you to respond to
<<<<<>>>>>
How can someone who wants to create something, treat one different from another? Creativity transcends film music and Bombay dreams. If he doesn’t trust his own sense of Creation, then he is heavily reliant on the public to decide what his worth is. Very Sad.
<<<<>>>>>>>
Why should someone who creates want to throw something to the public to assess his creativity? Very funny. I thought that a Creator would know how to control his creations the way he would want to, no matter what the mortals would think of it. And also the fact that he was sure of his creation before he sought the confirmation of his disciples to say that what he created is true to his earlier creations. Trend, I understand your subjectivity as much I do with mine. But, I hope, your subjectivity is not due to <<<<<>>>
<<<<<>>>>>.
This very clearly shows the extent that you have understood Mozart, as much as you think that history can be competition for contemporary. It is easy to compete with establishment represented by history, but do you realizes the level of competition with a living Mozart if you were to live with the fear that he can do something better than you. You don’t have the insight (which I thought you had from your previous postings in these forums). So, think before you respond to me.
Inspite of anything that anyone would want to say, Rahman is the child we nurtured with the belief that MUSIC had HOPE after Ilayaraja, let’s nurture him. Let’s encourage him in everyway we can, since he has been the only product of Ilayaraja’s influence to capture the imagination of the public - more than his own sons.
Shall we stop this war between IR-ARR for the sake of a musicfan, …….
- From: Musicfan again (@ 172.188.108.211) on: Thu Dec 20 19:32:07 EST 2001
Trend Man,
"I think he treats that and his Film projects separately (or independent of each other)"
How can someone who wants to create something, treat one different from another? Creativity transcends film music and Bombay dreams. If he doesn’t trust his own sense of Creation, then he is heavily reliant on the public to decide what his worth is. Very Sad.
"a intermediate step for him towards assessing his own music"
Why should someone who creates want to throw something to the public to assess his creativity? Very funny. I thought that a Creator would know how to control his creations the way he would want to, no matter what the mortals would think of it. And also the fact that he was sure of his creation before he sought the confirmation of his disciples to say that what he created is true to his earlier creations. Trend, I understand your subjectivity as much I do with mine. But, I hope, your subjectivity is not due to "Paarthaale Paravasam is not widely appreciated"
"I think Rahman just goes on whether the person composing next to him is "Mozart" or "myself"" This very clearly shows the extent that you have understood Mozart, as much as you think that history can be competition for contemporary. It is easy to compete with establishment represented by history, but do you realizes the level of competition with a living Mozart if you were to live with the fear that he can do something better than you. You don’t have the insight (which I thought you had from your previous postings in these forums). So, think before you respond to me.
Inspite of anything that anyone would want to say, Rahman is the child we nurtured with the belief that MUSIC had HOPE after Ilayaraja, let’s nurture him. Let’s encourage him in everyway we can, since he has been the only product of Ilayaraja’s influence to capture the imagination of the public - more than his own sons.
Shall we stop this war between IR-ARR for the sake of a musicfan, …….
- From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Thu Dec 20 23:35:06 EST 2001
musicfan,
"How can someone who wants to create something, treat one different from another? Creativity transcends film music and Bombay dreams. If he doesn’t trust his own sense of Creation, then he is heavily reliant on the public to decide what his worth is. Very Sad."
You were talking about net effect of people's reactions towards one(say film music) having an effect on say another(projects like Bombay dreams).Now you are going to a more "baser"(fundamental) level and talking in terms of creativity.At the fundamental level any cause has a wide effect.
I think this can be analogized to Cricket.You have the Cricket skill at the fundamental level.Then you have Test Cricket and One day Cricket.What you do in Test Cricket shouldn't (not supposed to)affect your game in ODI and vice-versa.Similarly, according to me Rahman considers BD kind of projects differently from Film music.
What I meant by intermediate step, he didn't try to sacrifice anything in terms of what the public wants or creativity(or control of it) but he just tried to do something in a new direction.
When I was talking about Mozart I wanted to specify someone to mean as the ultimate music composer that the world has seen till now and how the situation would be if someone like Mozart is his contemporary.I didn't mean it to pull in the actual Mozart.
"You don’t have the insight (which I thought you had from your previous postings in these forums)."
I just have to say you were wrong in your previous observations and now you've got it right.:)
"your subjectivity is not due to "Paarthaale Paravasam is not widely appreciated" "
I will like/hate ARR's music irrespective of whether the person next to me hate/like ARR's music.
"Rahman is the child we nurtured with the belief that MUSIC had HOPE"
Those are big words.I wouldn't want to easily say something for/against that now.But one thing I believe is his music should be seen exclusively by itself and not with respect to being lower/higher than anybody else's.
"Shall we stop this war between IR-ARR "
I don't see any war.but if you meant our exchanges that's fine.:)
ALL,IMO
- From: musicfan (@ 172.188.108.211) on: Thu Dec 20 19:26:15 EST 2001
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