Topic started by Rex (@ wei-408-46.circa.ufl.edu) on Fri Oct 31 16:43:56 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.
Responses:
- From: Rex (@ wei-408-46.circa.ufl.edu)
on: Fri Oct 31 16:47:57 EST 1997
Sorry guys, I couldn't resist myself making this comparison after I heard ARR's Vande Matharam, yesterday. I think, IR's tune of Vande Matharam song in Kalapaani(Mal)(in tamil, it was not so good), was 1000 times better than any of the tunes of ARR's Vande Mataram.
I am not averse to ARR's music, but I think he should have come out with more quality stuff.
Your comments..please..(I am not for creating a rift in TFM page between IR and ARR fans!!)
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Fri Oct 31 17:01:09 EST 1997
Rex,
I liked both IR's Vandhe Matharam and ARR's Vandhe Matharam. We cannot compare both, they are both good in their own respects. The good news is that both have given the song in Tamizh and we all should enjoy the song rather than debating which one is good.
- From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com)
on: Fri Oct 31 17:06:51 EST 1997
Hi, I was thinking about this and thanks for bringing this up. Let us not get carried away with "bias"ed opinions. Let us have a very objective analysis.
My opinion: IR's song( I haven't heard the Malayalam version - now, I should, after reading your comments on that!!!) in "Siraichaalai" was so much full of the "emotions" that my heart negizhnthufies everytime I hear that song. The lyrics by "Arivumathi(the who???)" was so great and that only adds to IR's wonderful tune.
IRin "Ithu Thaai Pirantha Desam" keikkumbothu varugira "partiotic" feeling, is definitely missing in ARR's Vande Maatharam. I would say ARR's composition is very good and great to listen to; he has done a wonderful job with that album; but, but it certainly lacks in bringing out the essential feelings.
The newer generations seem to like it better than IR's version( my neices and nephews in India are examples of such ) and that shows how contemporary and not-much-emotion-filled ARR's compositions are. I am not looking down upon the newer generations - please, don't get me wrong. I hope you understand the point I am making here.
- From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27)
on: Fri Oct 31 17:15:51 EST 1997
Rex:
I did not hear ARR's Vande Maataram completely except "maa thujE salaam" and that too I heard it on the Internet. But from what I heard, I felt that in IR's Vandhe Maataram that intense feeling of patriotism could be felt. We are reminded of all the people who sacrificed their lives for our independance.
Lyrics for "vandhE matharam" - Siraichaalai:
idhu thai pirandha dhEsam
nam thandhai aanda dhEsam
idhu naam vanangum dhEsam
uyir naadi indha dhEsam
maN peridhaa uyir peridhaa
badhil tharavaa ippOdhE
vaa puliyE nam vazhvum saavum yaar vasam
vandhE matharam.. vandhE matharam..
veeranai gundugal thulaikkathu
veeranai sarithiram marakkathu
nattai ninaikkum nenjangal
vadagai moochil vazhaadhu
izhandha uyirgalO kanakkillai
irumi savadhil sirappilai
innum ennada vilaiyaattu
edhiri narambilE kodiyEtru
nelathadiyil pudhaindhirukkum piNagalukkum manam thudikkum
vandhE maatharam.. vandhE maatharam..
thayO paththE maasam dhaan
adhigam sumandhadhu dhEsam dhaan
indha puzhudi dhaan udalachchu
indha katru dhaan uyirachchu
??? puliye ezhundhidadaa
erimalaiyaai vedithidadaa..
vandhE maatharam.. vandhE maatharam..
- From: Gopal (@ host-207-53-2-124.atl.bellsouth.net)
on: Fri Oct 31 20:20:07 EST 1997
Amar's opinion is mine
- From: Pagalavan (@ batboy.cisco.com)
on: Sun Nov 2 00:00:56 EST 1997
cp
Thanks for en thAy piRandha dEsam lyrics. Kaignar aRivumathi did a great job (esp "naattai ninaikkum nenjangaL vaadagai moochchil vaazhaadhu"), needless to say about IR's great efforts in bringing the patriatric emotions this song.
- From: Rex (@ wei-410-h02.circa.ufl.edu)
on: Mon Nov 3 13:47:17 EST 1997
Guys, the lyrics in "en thAAi pirantha dEsam", would have been nice, but the song was not so appealing, due to the solo performance of Mano. Whereas in the Original version of the film,(Malayalam), the song is in Hindi and is sung by about 100 singers, I suppose, and the group performance is simply superb. Those of you who haven't heard the Malayalam version of the song, SHOULD listen to it, so that you can appreciate the song, very well.
OK, coming to the query, I think, ARR was good in Tauba..Tauba...but for an album like VM, Tauba Tauba is not needed. Perhaps he could have got that one for some of his forthcoming movies.
Gurus of peace, is from pOrale ponnuthayi..tune... which I think, is a number just added to the album by ARR perfunctorily. His argument that he loves that tune can't cut ice with us. Either he should have run out of tunes, or that he signals, that it is what can be expected of him for an album like this.
I think that the original Vande Matram tune of Bankim Chandra Chatterjee is scored as a type of elegy, in ARR's VM. I don't know why?
Also ARR just 'shouts', he doesn't sing... (in contrast, note how Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan sings). I should appreciate ARR for one thing.. HE IS QUITE GOOD IN SINGING IN BOTH HINDI AND TAMIL!! Kudos to him. Definitely the album is not to the expectation. I find a lack of seriousness on the part of the composer(ARR).
Some may consider my remarks to be cynical, but at the same time, I very well know that there are too many who share the same view of mine.
- From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com)
on: Mon Nov 3 14:32:43 EST 1997
ARR's Vande Matharam "Thaai Manne Vanakkam" --did
inspire some patriotism in me. It had a good
world-music feel to it. Then again, musical
perceptions to a very great extent depend on
the music which we have listened to while
cultivating the music sense. So, if someone
has grown up being exposed to some kind of music,
and is introduced to a different kind of music
after most musical tastes have been cultivated,
he/she is most probably bound to have an extreme
reaction to it -- i.e. either total indifference
or great interest. I think that is the reason
why a some people of the previous generation of
music cannot adapt too well to the new trends
in world music that are pervading the music scene
right now.
- From: AthiNarayanan (@ ram.com)
on: Mon Nov 3 15:12:44 EST 1997
I haven't heard the malayalam version of Ithu thai pirantha desam but I liked even the tamil version a lot being an ardent fan of IR.Yes,the lyrics were pretty good(by Arivumathi) and what's important the music was soothing to the ears and ensured that the lyrics will be heard which is highly unlikely for anything coming out of ARR's music.Iam sorry if I had hurt ARR's fans(Iam sure they are very few in number) but this is my honest opinion.
To add to all this,India today which gets lots of pleasure by singing lavish,lofty praises on ARR had letters from 2,3 readers criticizing VM vehemently in strong words.People had written "it was a sham on the part of the golden jubilee celebration committee to have this adulterated,concocted version of VM which no where resembles the original VM.This concocted version should be confined to its cassette/CD and not performed before public in an official function.It has no indian style of music in it".This opinion is from the Urban intelligentsia who are supposed to form the major chunk of ARR's fans.So there is no point in comparing this VM from ARR with the one in Kaalapani.This ARR stuff will please his fans immensely and there is no question of any patriotic feeling being evoked.
But I guess the decision of ARR getting a chance to sing VM in an official function on Aug 15th is due to the enormous political clout he has in Delhi and due to the same reason,he got the national award for Minsara Kanavukal and there is no musical merit in this to rave about.
- From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com)
on: Mon Nov 3 16:04:19 EST 1997
Athinarayanan:
I find your previous posting very emotionally
biased against A.R.Rahman. I can quote lots
of people who are bored of Ilaiyaraja but who
just don't write or say anything about it
because as far as they are concerned, he is
pretty much out of the scene -- so they'd rather
ignore him than waste time talking about him.
That is not my view. I'm just saying that to
reiterate what you probably know only too well,
that there are people with different tastes,
and there is enough space out there for Ilaiyaraja
Rahman and more. If you think that Rahman doesn't
have a following, then you are cheating yourself.
Movie makers are mostly business people and they
wouldn't encourage anything without a market.
So, whether or not Rahman makes great music or
not, he does have a great following right now.
That is the truth of the moment.
- From: Prathap (@ cuttack.cs.berkeley.edu)
on: Mon Nov 3 23:17:56 EST 1997
Two comments.
First of all I liked TRV's comments. I completely agree with him.
Secondly, I think the two versions cannot be compared at all in the first place. Each of them are beautifil in its own right. REX, please take a note of this.
- From: Vinayak (@ cuttack.cs.berkeley.edu)
on: Mon Nov 3 23:19:47 EST 1997
AthiNarayan:
Get serious !!
- From: AthiNarayanan (@ ram.com)
on: Tue Nov 4 16:44:18 EST 1997
I just want to mention that I don't believe in comparing IR and ARR becos comparing IR with anybody is an insult to his immense talent.Reg this VM,I have read in the reviews that there was nothing indian about it or in it and reg ARR having a following now,it's just a temporary trend and is likely to fade away soon.Ofcourse I agree that moneywise he would have made sufficiently by that time but musicwise his contributions would be something he himself wouldn't be proud of.Sorry to digress,would people be interested in hearing this VM after say 5 yrs? Now compare this to some IR compositions like NBW,HTNI which are heard even now and they didn't have any theme like Patriotism to bank on.That's why I have written that this comparison is absurd and as usual I can conclude that IR stands way above any body else.I can assure you that Karthik Raja or Yuvan Raja is sufficient to surpass ARR in terms of musical quality.And Karthik Raja has made foray into hindi films with Grahaan.
You need not become patriotic after hearing the pop and western music in ARR's VM.
- From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com)
on: Tue Nov 4 17:24:21 EST 1997
AthiNarayanan:
A small digression from a sub-point that
you had mentioned. "What is being Indian?", by
the way? The very specialty of this country's
culture and heritage is the way it almost
seamlessly integrates everything new and foreign
into itself and makes it indigenous. It gives
each term in existence its own unique
interpretation. And that, I believe, is the
country's biggest strength. The strength to
integrate everything and survive with its own
distinctive character. What is being considered
"Indian music" by you, namely Ilaiyaraja's
compositions combining folk, carnatic and
using western classical styles of orchestration,
for your information, may not have been accepted
as "very Indian" even 50 years ago -- and someone
may have criticized it, that there is nothing
"Indian" about that music. The very albums you
mention, How To Name It, Nothing But Wind, etc.
had lots of elements of music, that had nothing
Indian about or in them. But that is good music
for you, period. The song "But seriosly ..."
by Phil Collins, a Britisher, can make me think
about the poor beggars outside Kapaali Kovil in
Mylapore, Madras. A passionate piece by Yani
can bring back Nostalgic feelings to my mind.
A piece by Mozart can inspire me to think about
my country, India. No need for it to be Indian.
That is the power of music. "What is good music?"
is one topic and "What is Indian?" is another
topic. Who defines those anyway?
About your predictions regarding Rahman's future
-- that is just your guess. Nobody knows what the
future hold for us right? Did you know anyone
called A.R.Rahman 6 or 7 years ago? On an aside,
didn't people say the same kind of things when
Ilaiyaraja popped into the scene during a period
when M.S.Viswanathan was dominating? History
repeats itself!
Lastly, about the statement, "You need not
become patriotic after hearing the pop and
western music in ARR's VM" -- I don't understand
what you're trying to say. Is it my mistake if
I do get inspired patriotically after listening
to it?
I'd like to clear one thing out. I'm not trying
to argue or anything. I'm just trying to put
forth one side of this debate in a sane manner.
Please don't take any of these comments personally
because I'd hate it if I unintentionally offended
you. Let's keep this as a healthy debate.
- From: Arun #1 (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Wed Nov 5 12:54:57 EST 1997
AthiNararayan:
You are beginning to lose touch with reality. Stop living in this TFM Page and get out a little more.
Couple of weeks ago, I walked in one of the chain music stores in Detroit, USA, which sells only
western music, and what did I see? `Vande Mataram' by ARRahman!!.. You go to any music store in *MADRAS* and ask for `India 24 Hours', the most likely response would be "India what?..". That's reality for you, friend. (May be Rahman used his polital influence to make this store in US to sell his music and used his goondas to threaten the Madras stores not to sell I.-24Hrs, the way
your theory goes.)
TRV said it right. Many of us, Rahman's fans, do not bother to post, because it is a waste of time - even when we see some hilarious posts like the ones in the threads, `Rahman's tunes' or `Who
gives better beats - Raja or Rahman'. Rahman rules, every evidence points to that and there is no need for manufactured theories to support it. setha pombai adichu enna prayojanam?
Regarding your prediction about Rahman's future, I am sure it will be as accurate as what your
prediction would have been six years ago regarding Raja's future.
- Arun.
- From: Arun #1 (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Wed Nov 5 13:10:35 EST 1997
AthiNarayan: (Sorry, The misspelling of your name was not intentional)
You are beginning to lose touch with reality. Stop living in this TFM Page and get out a little more.
Couple of weeks ago, I walked in one of the chain music stores in Detroit, USA, which sells only western music, and what did I see? `Vande Mataram' by ARRahman!!.. You go to any music store in *MADRAS* and ask for `India 24 Hours', the most likely response would be "India what?..". That's reality for you, friend. (May be Rahman used his polital influence to make this store in US to sell his music and used his goondas to threaten the Madras stores not to sell I.-24Hrs, the way your theory goes.)
TRV said it right. Many of us, Rahman's fans, do not bother to post, because it is a waste of time - even when we see some hilarious posts like the ones in the threads, `Rahman's tunes' or `Who gives better beats - Raja or Rahman'. Rahman rules, every evidence points to that and there is no need for manufactured theories to support it. isetha pombai adichu enna prayojanam?
Regarding your prediction about Rahman's future, I am sure it will be as accurate as what your prediction would have been six years ago regarding Raja's future.
- Arun
- From: AthiNarayanan (@ ram.com)
on: Wed Nov 5 18:03:15 EST 1997
Mr.Arun,
I think you're very upset with yourself and angry with me for telling you the truth.Anyway there is a good news.India 24 hrs is available in the internet.You can order it online.I think the fact that it wasn't available in Madras made you extra angry.
The site addr is www.webcom.com/raag
and choose tamil in that and you'll find this CD.First relax yourself and hearing this CD will be an ideal way to do that and by that time I'll write a reply to you.One point about ARR's VM which proclaims about patriotism,there is nothing Indian about it(as another netter wrote in a different thread).The added insult is Nusret Fateh Khan dragged in this and what he would have done in such a westernized composition ! By the way,VM was the last album khan worked on(I read about it somewhere).Probably he himself couldn't withstand that ARR stuff eventhough he was a part of it(I wonder what part).
I'll write more later.
- From: originality_lover (@ webgate4.mot.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 03:28:37 EST 1997
Mr Arun#1,
Please make ur point clear.U say it's a waste of time writng in these threads (why DO U WRITE ?).U people can't come here and argue because U don't have any point worth arguing.Just because ARR is famous and VM has been released in 27 countries doesn't mean that he's better than IR or VM is better than I24H.In VM arr has again shown that he can't come up with new tunes (recycling pOrAle ponnuthayi....)in an album released internationally.
I 'd like to tell one more thing.If U don't want to 'waste' ur time don't listen to ARR 's songs (u'll listen only to those bob marleys ,Dr albans and ace of the bases)
- From: pg (@ client-116-13.bellatlantic.net)
on: Thu Nov 6 08:10:14 EST 1997
To all Hardcore IR fans :
Before Roja everybody was an IR fan ! Who else was there for 10 years to be a fan of ?
- From: pg (@ client-116-13.bellatlantic.net)
on: Thu Nov 6 08:12:20 EST 1997
One man's food is another man's poison. My view of VM : It is not as bad as IR fans make out to be but rather the point is it is not as good as India Today and others in the media make it out to be. It is not even as good as Duet or Thiruda Thiruda (ARR's best).
- From: Arun #1 (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 08:56:29 EST 1997
AthiNarayanan:
If you thought the purpose of my post was to find a place where I can get India 24 Hrs, then you are more confused than I originally thought.
"I think you're very upset with yourself and angry with me for telling you the truth. I think the
fact that it wasn't available in Madras made you extra angry."
????
And I don't have any problems with your critical opinion of ARR's Vande Mataram, or any of his music. You are entitled to it. You made a comment about their popularity or the number of fans he has. It made me think that you have to be either delusional or just beginning to lose touch with reality. I presumed the latter and I was just setting the record the straight. If I were you, I would figure out the present first, before going around predicting the future.
BTW, did Raja find a company to release his symphony yet? Since he has so much trouble, here is an idea! Let him make 10 copies of it and mail them to all his fans!! (just kidding ;-)) I am sure it will go in the record books along with his `hollywood movie'. (People who live in glasshouses ...)
Mr/Ms. originality_lover:
I know you would have loved it, if had never posted, rather than facing an opposing view. If you had been here long enough you may remember me making some postings here. Then I realized this is more of a sanctuary to an endangered species rather than a forum for balanced discussion. The closer it gets to extinction, the desperate it gets with its survival tactics. I have resisted the impulse to respond several times but this time it got me. I promise I would not post again, so you can go back to the imagine world, but don't be too upset, if someone comes now and then and bursts your bubble.
I repeat, I have no problems with your criticisms of his music or the questions you have about his originality. That's your opinion, but don't for a second assume that Ilaiyaraja never faced any such allegations. Everytime a trendsetter (even you would agree ARR is a trendsetter) came along, the oldtimers, who lacked the taste for it, have always made all the hue and cry before his/her legend is accepted. Ilaiyaraja faced even stronger criticisms and it is an irony that those include the *same* criticisms and even more. (just dappanguthu, lacks class, too much noise, could not listen to the lyrics etc.) I don't have to point out that, in spite of what the critics say (and they are fewer this time), ARR has already achieved greater strides in his first six years than anyone from the TFM world. I know some MSV fans who were too rigid to accept Raja lost out good music to enjoy and I can easily figure out who would be the losers this time. I am just glad my taste is flexible enough to enjoy the best flavor from all three different eras.
About the gurus of peace, I am glad ARR showed that by different treatment, he can give two extremely different feelings to the same tune. To me, it was another evidence of his deep understanding of different music from different worlds. It was only the people, who never liked ARR's music in the first place, that had a problem with it. So, what's new? If you think ARR is first composer to rework his/her own tune, you don't know much about the world of music.
Go ahead, you can have the last word.
PG:
Is it just me or there has really been a slight change in your views lately. Anyway, I really don't hate Raja like my posts would imply. It is just to keep the balance, which this forum lacks big time. I just think he is burned out like any great would be oneday, that's all. He deserves a lifetime achievement award, and he should retire gracefully.
- Arun.
- From: Arun #1 (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 09:28:45 EST 1997
Just one more thing Mr. originality_lover,
You said:
Just because ARR is famous and VM has been released in 27 countries doesn't mean ....
You also said:
If U don't want to `waste' ur time don't listen to ARR `s songs (u'll listen only to those bob marleys ,Dr albans and ace of the bases)
Then how would this guy dare to go international and get laughed at, and one of the world's top brands would release him internationally putting their good will in jeopardy? Please make this point a little more clear. (Here comes another theory ...)
- Arun.
- From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27)
on: Thu Nov 6 12:50:49 EST 1997
Mr.Arun,
I agree with your point that a trendsetter is always criticised. But, there is nothing wrong in analyzing IR's songs or ARR's or MSV's. This is a tamil film music page and people from all generations discuss about various facets of tamil music. If you are offended by the postings and not interested to discuss you could as well refrain from writing here. It might look as if a lot of IR fans are discussing in this page but why does it matter to you anyway. There are a lot of ARR fans interacting also. You could as well start a thread on ARR's music and discuss with them. There are only healthy debates going on here and asking anyone to stop talking IR anymore just because he is sinking is not fair. After all this is all in thin air! ARR might be ruling the roose, but this page is for all of us to discuss and it is not necessary that anyone who writes here should praise ARR and ditch IR ! Ungalukku setha paambaaga thondruvadhu neriya peRakku dheivamaga irukkalamE!!!
- From: pg (@ client-116-47.bellatlantic.net)
on: Thu Nov 6 13:31:15 EST 1997
To Arun :
quote :
ARR has already achieved greater strides in his first six years than anyone from the TFM world.
I vehemently disagree with that. ARR has made more money and has achieved more fame that anybody in his first six years than anybody else. That's all.
I haven't changed my views (even though my postings in TFM may not reflect that). My opinion of ARR is that he is OK - listen to him once in a while. I REALLY liked his songs in Thiruda Thiruda most of the others - they make hits but music wise they are OK only. ARR is much more repetitive and he also borrows much more freely than you would like to admit.
I was very disillusioned with IR for quite some time (before ARR) but I disagree that he is dead creatively. The 'indirarum sooriyarum' & 'thendral vandhu' songs in Avatharam were the turning point for my love for IR's music. The next was India 24 Hours. VM may outsell India 24 Hours 100 to 1 but I maintain India 24 Hours is a much better album than VM. VM's orientation whatever marketing hype may say is purely commercial. Agreed IR's music is not the best it was but it is still good. And much of his best work is malayalam movies - listen to Guru and Yaathra Mozhi.
- From: Arun #1 (@ internet1.ford.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 15:25:57 EST 1997
(With Mr./Ms. originality_lover's permission, just to clarify myself):
Mrs. cp:
You missed it again. It is not the discussion about the *music* that caused me to respond. Please read my post again. What did I respond to? It was some personal attacks on ARR and obvious and possibly deleberate twisting of facts. (me? affended? no, amused rather..) That's it. Looks like you agree with my `facts' more than the other set of `facts', so my job is done.
"There are only healthy debates going on here."
Not quite true. Much better than usenet, I agree, but could have been even better for a moderated forum (not that I believe in censorship) wtih a very specific charter. Not only some are out-of-the-line, they are also either ignorant or forgetting the facts about the other side (I have explained it the parenthesis).
Few examples:
1. About his religion. (Is there anybodyelse in the world weirder than Raja when it comes to religeous preferences?)
2. About his initials - "Where in world did he get his initials?", sombody asked. (Aren't two initials better than no initials? oops.. sorry I went too far.)
3. About his interview that his daughter's first word was `Allah' (I would love it, if this person predicts what my three month old's first words would be.) and that he is putiing a drama. (Why in the world would ARR do that? Does he look like a guy who needs `drama' to sell his music? Besides, are we forgetting a Raja's comment: `Carnatic Vidhwan = Theru nai'. I hope if someone writes Raja's biography, they put this quote right on the cover.)
4. Following are not personal attacks, but definite twisting of facts. Even you said Raja's music is full of class and how cheap the lyrics were in ARR's songs. (Or something to that effect, you quoted avatharam songs Vs. Usilampatti from gentleman.) Excuse me? Ilaiyaraja? Class?
Why did you conveniently forget the dozens of sleezy `mukkal munagal' songs of Ilaiyaraja? If there is one credit that should go to Raja, it is inventing this. I am not sure how our `Originality_Lover' felt about this originality and when IR repeated this to a nauseating number of times. Who started `meaningful' songs like `Ithu sarkaru roadu.. nee nikkaame odu...'? I may not know much about women, but I am sure they were not flattered by `Vaadi en kappakkezhange' or the likes.
On the other hand, ARR has definitely raised the standards again, atleast when it comes to lyrics. They may be meaningless at times (ineptitude of the song writer or the situation). But they are definitely not vulgar. So, you know it is not kaalathin kattaayam to be vulgar. (Just as a measure: when I was growing up, my mudhugu would have veengufied if my mom heard me sing or listen to some of Raja's songs, but I can't think of any Rahman songs like that now. Or how liberated are you when it comes to your kids and Raja's songs like those.)
But wouldn't you have started a crusade against ARR to save tamil panpaadu if he had done songs like that? I hear that you were against westernization of India, but this is okay? Why is this obvious double standard? Are you afraid of blasphemy ;-)
5. When Ilaiyaraja could not make it into Hindi, it is only because he is not interested in fame or money. (Do you know how many times Raja was raided by the IT Dept?) Or Hindi people aren't smart enough..Duh. You are in popular music business, (not in classical music) you are supposed to cater to all sorts of people, if you have enough talent you would be able to do that. If only Raja had little more interest in money he would have conquered Hollywood too, I am sure ;-).
I am all for healthy discussions. (Where in the world did I say that you should stop discussing Raja? I hope this misinterpretations are not deliberate.) But criticizing for the sake of criticizing doesn't count as healthy discussion. Because, now you know even 'dheyvams' can be criticized. (No offense, ofcourse.)
PG:
Regarding achievements, I am talking only about measurable ones. Looks like you agree with me. Others are intangible and subjective, no point in arguing about that. Lets just agree to disagree on both ARR and IR. Same thing goes for VM and I-24Hrs. Note the posting I responded to.
- Arun.
- From: cp (@ host-207-53-6-89.atl.bellsouth.net)
on: Thu Nov 6 16:47:51 EST 1997
Arun,
I am sorry to say that I tried to convey to you that this is a forum that anyone can discuss about music only and not about unrelated things and give their opinions. Quoting my postings that I had written in various topics that are related to the topic started only is not fair. I am a true blue IR fan - but I like ARR's music also. I have not written about other subjects related to ARR other than his music in any posting. In a topic when some person talked about ARR's religion, it was pointed out that it should not be discussed and there it was curtailed. As far I am concerned this is a decent discussion forum where no one is offended or no personal attacks are done. I do not wish to continue with the topic as I feel it has gone too far. Thanks.
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Thu Nov 6 17:39:40 EST 1997
innA vAdhyArE,
kAlApAnikkum vandhE mAtharaththukkum innA sambandham kIdhu? onnu
sinimA onnu chummA pAttu mattum thAn. nI innA seyyinnA idhu thAi
piRandha dhEsam kIdhE aththayum indhiyanla oru pAttu varumE innA adhu
aththayum paththi pEsu. chummAngAttikkum VM KP nnu innA orE bEjArA
pUdchi.
( :-) ).
vartA.
- From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 19:09:18 EST 1997
Thanks ARUL, for cooling things down. I was
reading the postings on this thread for the
past two days. BP ellaam eri pochu nainA!!!
Ippo thaan manasu koncham relax-A keedhu!
Thanks ma! Appaala pesalaam!
- From: J.Murugesan (@ ww-te64.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu Nov 6 19:46:43 EST 1997
Guys,
I am quite new to this forum.. for that matter to the internet itself....
Well, for the past one month, I am very closely following this forum, and this is the page I visit immediately I login....
I am just a music lover, with not much knowledge about the ragas etc etc....
Well, actually Arun's mail made me to write this..I cannot take his comments to the full extent...
If you compare, IR and ARR as a music director (leave all their personal life...) I think IR stands much taller than ARR by all standards (originality, quality etc etc..)...
It is quite true that IR is totally out of field now and ARR is the much wanted MD in INDIA now..(no one can disagree with this...) but just for the fact that ARR is famous and all his albums are selling like hot cakes, no one would accept that he is greater than IR....
(Will anyone accept Rajini to be greater actor than Kamal as far as acting is concerned...
(in between I am a die hard Rajini fan...))..
You, must note one point, here that I am not biased against anyone of the above...I am just a music lover (as you have said, I also enjoy music from all the MDs of the past 3 generations..
I agree that whenever a trendsetter comes, there is a lot of hype and criticisms from all the corners....
There is a point here to be noted...
Take the initial compositions of IR when MSV also was equally busy (for eg. Nizhalhal vs Varumayin Niram Sivappu ...both were released on the same period...). You cannot blame IR at all, saying that he has used some western music or too much of noise etc etc....
Yes, IR music was different, because, he added a little flavour to the current trend..( i would say he went up by 1 in westernising music etc etc..)
Now, similarly if you compare, ARR vs IR ( for eg, Thiruda Thiruda vs VEERA ) you would find the difference between the trend is very huge...
(i would say ARR has gone up by 7-8 , that nowadays one cannot figure out whether the song is sung in Tamil or English ( i am sure that you would accept this...))....I am not saying that all ARR songs fall in this category....I have a good list of his songs, which I hear very often...
But he is very very commercial person...not really a great MD...
Even, now if you see, who composes songs aptly for situation, it is none other than IR....But of the late, he is definitely not getting good subjects at all... Whenever, he got a good subject, I think, he has done a pretty good job...
One more point, I found very severe, in your posting was about the lyrics etc etc...What does a IR or ARR has to do with lyrics...their job is just to score the music for the situation and rest lies with the lyricist....
About, music making the song non-hearable blah blah.....
I think, this was raised first by Vairamuthu suddenly due to some misunderstanding with IR..I guess he had 2 points against IR, at the time of their seperation
1) IR music covers my lyrics blah blah...
2) IR is not composing for my lyrics, rather asks lyricist to write for his music.....
The point here, is if Vairamuthu was really a man of self-respect, he shouldn't be doing the above said (point 2) wihen he works with other MD.
But he does....then what is the point in cribbing...( I think the subject is turing in a different direction here....)
But I am not saying that, IR is a complete man...He had a lot of problems with all major directors etc...He let his head go heavy at times... But even then, if you just see him a a music director, I think he is the most talented TFM has ever had....
To finish my say,
Do you guys think, that IR can't jump on his key board, make some junk voices sing a song and come to the limelight again...Common guys if a DEVA, SIRPI and VIDYASAGAR can do, then.....????
See, IR has gone above all these things....there absolutely nothing that he cannot do....It is just that he don't want to.....he wants Tamil songs to sound like a Tamil song, for that matter a Fun song as a Fun song and a sad song as a sad song....Nowadays, sometimes, if I listen to some songs (offcourse before watching the movie..) I can't figure out, whether the song is for a pathos mood or for a hi-fi dance no......
I sincerely wanted to be just a spectator, but then I couldn't simply resist writing this....
Sorry if I had hurted anyone's feelings.....
Continue the good work guys.....
- From: Rex (@ cse-211-f03.circa.ufl.edu)
on: Thu Nov 6 23:54:59 EST 1997
ARR's Vande Matram - O.K (Under normal circumstances)
(When u consider against the hype that VM had created with... Sony release...27 countries..blah blah..) then this is what I feel:
ARR'S VM IS TRASH!!!
- From: Rex (@ cse-211-f03.circa.ufl.edu)
on: Thu Nov 6 23:57:22 EST 1997
Kudos to Athinarayanan for the responses!!
- From: shankar(originality_lover) (@ webgate4.mot.com)
on: Fri Nov 7 03:24:56 EST 1997
Mr.Arun(to the response posted with 'my' permission),
1.You unnecessarily brought religion into this decent forum(i 'm bringing it only for the counter arg).Who has a weirder preferences when it comes to religion?Raja?!were U sleeping while posting this?How do U account for Dilip shekar's name change to ARR ? how good is 'religious preferences'?
2.I am decent enough to avoid answering this point.
3.Don't U think that the first word funda is a drama?Don't say he doesn't give that kind of a statement.He said (when a reporter asked him which of IR's numbers does he like ).our man's reply was "i have never listened to any of the IR's numbers"(!!!) a week or so later,when magazines f@#$%^ him royally ,he said he liked "inji iduppazhaga".IR never said vidwans are "theru nai".he said even a dog's bark has a raga or sthg like that (U can check the interview-available in the net)can U show where he said that ? Just b'cos
U want to praise ARR don't put unneccessary blames on other person.
4.Yes ,Ilayaraja ,CLASS...
When the situation is like a heroine trying to seduce the hero do U think a MD of IR's caliber do a song like "singara velane deva....." (Only ARR will do that-in puthiya mugam when suresh menon fights the villains our man made an innovation-a flute piece-very melodious,when suresh engages in a fight).In most of the important scenes ARR's bgm is bad (an under statement)ex:bombay-when a.swamy shouts at the junta in the climax ,our man screams in the background -no dialogues was heard.
I could make out how biased U should be.The same 'ineptitude of the song writer and the situation ' doesn't hold for IR is it??
5.The reasons for the IT people to raid raja's house may be many.One of them is the fact that he
didn't want to lose his self-respect my 'obeying' those politicians (ex-he was supposed to score music for the movie by tamilnadu govt-directed by visu.On it's pooja he was about to park his car in the place where he normally does.The security (of the then CM JJ)didn't allow that for "security" reasons.Our man left the place right then.So MSV became the MD)When such a similar situation happened to ARR in nehru stadium's inaguration,he became a "YES BOSS" type of guy and went according to their whims and fancies)
If those hindi people can listen to Anu malik(shameless guy,he copies from the 'master copier'(none other than ur ARR)) and anand milind
check their taste( i'm not generalising-no offense
meant).IR is not that kind of a guy who stoops down to succeed.
As U say, I am all for a healthy discussions.I am sure U won't take my comments personally.I also expect some more 'hot' stuff like this from U.U can always contact me at:
sPost comments
Sections: Home - TFM Magazine - Forum - Wiki - POW - oPod - Lyrics - Pictures - Music Notes -
Forums: Current Topics - Ilayaraja Albums - A.R. Rahman Albums - TFM Oldies - Fun & Games
Ilaiyaraja: Releases - News - Share Music - AR Rahman: Releases - News - AOTW - Tweets -
Discussions: MSV - YSR - GVP - Song Requests - Song stats - Raga of songs - Copying - Tweets
Database: Main - Singers - Music Director's - Lyricists Fun: PP - EKB - Relay - Satires - Quiz