what we seldom talk about

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what we seldom talk about what we seldom talk about

Topic started by cram (@ ) on Tue Feb 23 10:32:51 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: cram (@ ) on: Tue Feb 23 10:37:42 EST 1999

this thread is basically a spin-off of the discussion currently on in the Kannadaasanin padaippugaL thread, on the element of sexuality in his songs. i have always felt that sexuality/erotica have been handled in TFM in a highly refined manner, until, of course, the advent of "eppadi, eppadi", etc. i propose that we explore the various nuances of sexuality (as opposed to vulgarism and obscenity)that have been dealt with by our cine kavis.
From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Feb 23 13:54:46 EST 1999

cram,
Good luck, nanbarae. If this topic survives, I would love to explore and contribute here. There have been attempts at this topic previously but were dropped for several reasons I'm sure.
From: Ravi (@ gluttony.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Feb 23 14:27:00 EST 1999

cram and Udhaya: I too wish you luck. Hope things do not get out of hand as it has in the past. We will do our best to help keep this thread clean. Earlier we terminated such threads, but after the levle of discussion in the Kannadhasan thread, I am inclined to try once again. :-).
From: RajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Tue Feb 23 14:42:54 EST 1999

Cram,

What is your basis for saying that 'sexuality/erotica have been handled in TFM in a highly refined manner?' IMO both Tamil and Telugu FM have always had abundant doses of vulgarity in lyrics, suggestive gestures (on screen), varying degrees of sexual content in theme over a considerable period of time. In fact if you compare HFM to either of these, I have to say HFM has been quite moderate. While Malayalam movies, have been known to be bold in the selection of movie topics, I am not sure if the 'boldness' crept into lyrics.
However, sticking to Tamil FM, I will say that blatant sexuality in lyrics increased significantly coinciding with the advent of Bharathiraja, Baagyaraj, Ilayaraja time frame.
From: SitaRam (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Tue Feb 23 17:57:24 EST 1999

Sir, music is supposed to be devotional or spiritual purposes. Not for Tantra but it is Mantra. Why do we talk about sex and music. This is like mixing oil and water. Music is like water, pure and deep like the ocean (the Pacific). You can drink it, shower and shampoo. (please remove the salt). Sex is like oil. Lots of cholestrol, not pure and basically of no use if you can walk to work. Cram, please don't mind, as Udhaya said, we will contribute if this topic is going strong.
From: Bhoori (@ synvpn.synplicity.com) on: Tue Feb 23 20:38:51 EST 1999

I am all for this thread. At least its not araiccha mavu.

IMO, the references to sex hasnt been refined but cloaked in euphemisms. All the lyricists use standard symbolism - vazhai for thighs, aalilai and so on. BTW, I always wondered about why aalilai and why not arasilai. ;-). The act of copulation is always associated with the seeding of pearls.

IMO, whenever the standard symbolism is not used, we call it a vulgar song e.g. Kanda Kanda Mappilaiyai Kattikka Maatten in Sivappu Suriyan is acknowledged as a vulgar song but Aalilaiyum Sivappaga in Thoongadha Vizhigal Rendu from Agni Natchatthiram is not considered a vulgar one. Its an illogical mental block that we all hv. Why should one set of euphemisms be preferred to another ?

The best reference to breasts is in the Kannadasan classic from Raja Parvai viz. Azhage Azhagu - "Oru Angam Kaigal Ariyadhadhu". Always makes me smile...
From: Bhoori (@ synvpn.synplicity.com) on: Tue Feb 23 21:50:41 EST 1999

Another nice reference to breasts:

Thanga Meniyai Thazhuvum
Pattuch Chelai Nazhuvum
Thendral Vandhu Vilakkum
Adhu Ungalodu Pazhakkam

Excellent lyrics from Roja Ondru Muttham Ketkum Neram. Obviously IR, but who wrote the lyrics ?
From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Feb 23 21:58:11 EST 1999

bhoori: it is VM.
From: RR (@ pb.cache.nlanr.net) on: Wed Feb 24 00:55:11 EST 1999

"ithazhaal udal aLanthaan
ivaLo thannai maRanthaaL" - from 'iniyavaLe endru'(TMS,PS)
From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Feb 24 01:49:44 EST 1999

here are the lyrics from thalaiyaik kuniyum thaamaraiyE.. enna puriyudhO purinjukkunga:-)
thalaiyaik kuniyum thaamaraiyae (2)
unnai edhirpaarththu vandha pinbu vaerththu (2)

(thalaiyaik)

nee theerkka vaendum vaaliba dhaagam
aaa...
nee theerkka vaendum vaaliba dhaagam
paarkadalin oaram pallikonda naeram
amudham vazhiyum idhazhaith thudaiththu
vidiyum varaiyil virundhu nadaththu

(thalaiyaik)

kaaththirundhaen anbae - inik
kaamanin veedhiyil thaer varumoa
poomagal kannangal - oru
maadhulai poal niram maaridumoa
aayiram naanangal - indha
oomaiyin veenaiyil isai varumaa
neeyoru ponveenai - adhil
nuniviral padugaiyil palasuramaa
pooviragandhadhu mudhalmuraiyaa
vaedhanai vaelaiyil soadhanaiyaa
pudhu muraiyaa idhu sariyaa
sari sari poovaadaik kaatru jannalai saaththu
uththaravu dhaevi thaththalikkum aavi (2)
irandu nadhigal inaindhu nadakkum
pudhiya alaigal karaiyai udaikkum
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 04:00:36 EST 1999

BB: kalakkaaaaax. especially the charanam details everything(!!!). I mean it ;-))))))))).
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 04:05:48 EST 1999

Other references to breasts

1. paloottum sangu athu thenoottum indru from anthiyile vaanam
2. kazhuthin keezhe kavithaigaL rendu micham ullathe athuvaa athuva from entha pennilum illaatha ondru
3. maanganigal thottilile thoongathadi ange mannavanin pasiyaara maalaiyile parimaara from rathiriyil poothirukkum thamarai thaan
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 04:08:43 EST 1999

continuing
4. sattre nimirntheen thalai suttri poneen aaha avane vallaladi from anbe anbe
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 04:15:54 EST 1999

irandu vaazhai thandile raajagopuram from atho megha oorvalam
Who is the lyricist of this song?? Vaali??
From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Wed Feb 24 04:30:25 EST 1999

thanx guys, for the encouraging response.
be back later with my takes.
From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Feb 24 09:38:29 EST 1999

rs,
FYI, adhO mEga oorvalam was the last song written by VM for Raja :-)
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 09:55:26 EST 1999

Thanks Shankar! VM did it again ;-)))))))))
From: Ramki (@ pm062-15.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Wed Feb 24 10:02:38 EST 1999

Shankar 'adho mega oorvalam' is by Muthulingam.
VM last film with IR is Punnagai mannan(later there were couple of dubbed movies like 'narkkali kanavugal' which had VM has the lyricist)
Eeramana rojavae was released in early 90s.
From: RS (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:08:17 EST 1999

Thanks Ramki for the correction
From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:14:29 EST 1999

NO Ramki,

In kungumam VM had said that it was his last song with Raja.

He said that he had some discussion with raja after writing this song and went on to describe what happened ,as a poem (i didn't understand what he really meant in that poem :-(( )
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:16:06 EST 1999

ayyOOOOOOOOOOOO kuzhappareeeeeeengaLe!! atho mega oorvalam kadaisila yaar ezhuthi irukkaaaaanga.

i like the lyrics so much
unnai seydha brahmane unnai paarthu yenguvaan
kaathal pichai vaanguvaan innum enna solla
class lyrics
From: bull (@ cache.mch.sni.de) on: Wed Feb 24 10:18:29 EST 1999

Well I see both sides to it... IMO there are equal number of well hidden and blatantly vulgar in TFM...

To every
irandu vaazaikaNRilE raajagOburam

there is a

paarunggaa naarthangaa muththina maanggaa

to balance
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:19:51 EST 1999

ayyOOOOOO please dont compare irandu vaazhaithandile oru raajagopuram with paarunga naarthanga muthina maanga bull!
From: bull (@ cache.mch.sni.de) on: Wed Feb 24 10:21:45 EST 1999

No Im not comparing them RS, Im contrasting them!
From: rs (@ sungold7.uk.ibm.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:24:13 EST 1999

appanna okay. sari vera ethavathu songs post pannu
From: pae (@ global25.citicorp.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:38:46 EST 1999

Some more to this category:

1. parichalum thuni pottu maraichalum pennae,
palichendru theriyado ila mangaai munnae

2. palingunaal oru maaligai
paruvathaal mani mandapam
uyarathil oru gopuram
unnai azhaikkudhu vaa

3. malai rani mundhanai thazhuva thazhuva
....
ilankaatru maarbagathai thazhuva thazhuva

4. aayiram thaamarai mottukkalae
.....
kal vadiyum pookal thangal kaambai marakkum
(in fact the entire song is erotic)

5. idazhae idhazhae thaen vaendum
idayae idayae kani vaendum
From: bull (@ cache.mch.sni.de) on: Wed Feb 24 10:47:10 EST 1999

Pae : Isnt it pavaLathaal maNi maNdabam
From: pae (@ global25.citicorp.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:48:57 EST 1999

bull: donno!

The third song 'malai rani' should be 'malai rani mundhanai sariya, sariya' instead of 'thazhuva'.
From: bull (@ cache.mch.sni.de) on: Wed Feb 24 10:50:38 EST 1999

oru kanni thaamarayE
un paadham kaNdEnE
un pattu dhaavaNi nazuva nazuva
meeeeeeeeeeeedham kaNdEnE
hammaa hammaa hamma hamma hammaaa

apparam

minnal neidha sElai mEni mIdhu aada
michcham mIdham kaaNaamal mannan nenjam vaada
from nilaakaayum nEram saraNam
From: Ramki (@ csg05.cs.wmich.edu) on: Wed Feb 24 10:55:16 EST 1999

Shankar how could this be??Remember eeramaana rojavae was released in early 90s(1991 if im not wrong)and VM-IR split was in middle 80s. It could be Muthulingams last song with IR. Its definitely not VM :)
From: Ramki (@ csg05.cs.wmich.edu) on: Wed Feb 24 10:57:04 EST 1999

I guess this topic is to discuss on sexuality and erotica. But most of the above references are about anga adaiyalangal!!!!!
From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Wed Feb 24 10:58:37 EST 1999

kalasam, kudam , sembu are hallmarks of vaali's lyrics

in 'avaLoru navarasa nAdadgam',
"arusuvai niRambiya paal kudam
aadum nadayE nAttiyam"

thalaivar makes vaali's intentions obvious by making kinda gesture in the song!

in 'thendralukku innum vayathu 16 endrO'
"pattuch chElai kattum sOlai vaaduthu kaN pattu
panneer sembu munnal nindru vaa endrathu"

in 'manthirapp punnagai minnidum menagai'
"goruppathin kalasam athai aadaigal mooda"
From: bull (@ cache.mch.sni.de) on: Wed Feb 24 10:59:55 EST 1999

Ok Ramki, if you want it that way then you can have the next two lines of the sembaruththi song...

ardhajaamam naan sUdum aadai enRum nI aagum
anggam yaavum nI mUda aasai thandha nOi pogum

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