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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 18 11:38:48 EST 2000
  
  Dear Mr.Anand, Semmangudi Srinivasa Aiyar, the doyen of Carnatic music ( "The Isai Gyani title is very apt for IR - he is not only a king in film music, but also a genius in classical music - may God bless him with more Grace for his continued service to music" - this is recorded live in AVM's cassette of IR's classical compositions played by Mandolin U.Srinivas), Pt.Hariprasad Chaurasia ("IR does everything - composing, arranging,orchestration and conducting and that too without much help from others ! It was a privelege for me to have worked with him in Nothing But Wind"),Maestro. Lalgudi Jayaraman ("I was moved to tears after listening to How to Name It "), a former Principal of Kalakshetra School of Arts in Chennai ("Nobody has brought out the nuances of Raag Kedaram as beautifully as IR has done in "Pon malai pozhudu" in Nizhalgal"), TV Gopalakrishnan ("IR was/is my most talented / best student in music"), veteran composer Naushad Ali ("what IR has achieved is 100 times more than what any of us have
  achieved in this field - only time can tell the quantum of his achievements"), the late composer RD Burman ("IR is ahead of all of us by at least 10 years", after listening to "yedho mogam" from Kozhi Koovudhu), L.Subramaniam ("IR is as good as any other composer in the world"),Sir.John Scott, noted composer of English films like "Bridge on the River Kwai", "Cleopatra" ("Meeting with IR was very special for me - his was a very original music, straight from the copyists' pen - we were all very thrilled to listen to sounds, rhythms and melodies very new and very different" after recording IR's Symphony in 1993), Subbudu the famous music critic, whose acerbic comments spare none ("Nowadays Mohanam sounds mostly like Mohana kalyani - but IR makes Mohanam sound like Mohanam even though he composes film songs with it - I think IR has a mole on his back - he is a great gift of God - I am growing old- before I die, I pray that I get an oppurtunity to listen to his Symphony") - how about calling, branding all of
  these people as IR's boot lickers - would you dare to do so ? or maybe you are more knowledgeable in music than any of the doyens mentioned above !
  Tell me something, if a Physics professor teaches Newtons law of gravity by dropping a stone instead of drawing a picture of a stone falling , would you call that "TRAVERSING THE LAW OF GRAVITATION WITHOUT ACTUALLY GIVING THE NUANCES OF IT" - theory is one thing, application is different - how one uses a particular Raagam, or any concept like counterpoint,chords in Western classical music is more important than sheer theory ! even if one goes by theory, "Sangeedhamey yen dheivamey" from Kovil Pura speaks eloquent of IR's usage of Rasikapriya which prompted none other than Subbudu to say that IR "transcends time and takes us back to the G.Ramanathan days of rich usage of Carnatic music" in this song - how would you expect a composer to compose a song for a situation like that of the song "Kandupiduchen" from GURU SISHYAN ? give a classical Keerthanam ? give me a break ! IR used Panthuvarali (or a related Raaga) , essentially a sad Raagam to give a jolly- joyous effect - that is what creativity is all about -
  Mr.Anand, you are treading on a minefield - be careful of your statements here - if 90% of what IR gave is junk, then 25 of the 29 centuries scored by Sir.Donald Bradman were flukes !
  I can go on, but I am just tired of self-proclaimed intellectuals like you who think that others around are moronic imbeciles - if you have any doubts about your own identity, take a look at yourself in a good, clean mirror
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 18 11:42:19 EST 2000
  
  Dear Mr.Anand, Semmangudi Srinivasa Aiyar, the doyen of Carnatic music ( "The Isai Gyani title is very apt for IR - he is not only a king in film music, but also a genius in classical music - may God bless him with more Grace for his continued service to music" - this is recorded live in AVM's cassette of IR's classical compositions played by Mandolin U.Srinivas), Pt.Hariprasad Chaurasia ("IR does everything - composing, arranging,orchestration and conducting and that too without much help from others ! It was a privelege for me to have worked with him in Nothing But Wind"),Maestro. Lalgudi Jayaraman ("I was moved to tears after listening to How to Name It "), a former Principal of Kalakshetra School of Arts in Chennai ("Nobody has brought out the nuances of Raag Kedaram as beautifully as IR has done in "Pon malai pozhudu" in Nizhalgal"), TV Gopalakrishnan ("IR was/is my most talented / best student in music"), veteran composer Naushad Ali ("what IR has achieved is 100 times more than what any of us have
  achieved in this field - only time can tell the quantum of his achievements"), the late composer RD Burman ("IR is ahead of all of us by at least 10 years", after listening to "yedho mogam" from Kozhi Koovudhu), L.Subramaniam ("IR is as good as any other composer in the world"),Sir.John Scott, noted composer of English films like "Bridge on the River Kwai", "Cleopatra" ("Meeting with IR was very special for me - his was a very original music, straight from the copyists' pen - we were all very thrilled to listen to sounds, rhythms and melodies very new and very different" after recording IR's Symphony in 1993), Subbudu the famous music critic, whose acerbic comments spare none ("Nowadays Mohanam sounds mostly like Mohana kalyani - but IR makes Mohanam sound like Mohanam even though he composes film songs with it - I think IR has a mole on his back - he is a great gift of God - I am growing old- before I die, I pray that I get an oppurtunity to listen to his Symphony") - how about calling, branding all of
  these people as IR's boot lickers - would you dare to do so ? or maybe you are more knowledgeable in music than any of the doyens mentioned above !
  Tell me something, if a Physics professor teaches Newtons law of gravity by dropping a stone instead of drawing a picture of a stone falling , would you call that "TRAVERSING THE LAW OF GRAVITATION WITHOUT ACTUALLY GIVING THE NUANCES OF IT" - theory is one thing, application is different - how one uses a particular Raagam, or any concept like counterpoint,chords in Western classical music is more important than sheer theory ! even if one goes by theory, "Sangeedhamey yen dheivamey" from Kovil Pura speaks eloquent of IR's usage of Rasikapriya which prompted none other than Subbudu to say that IR "transcends time and takes us back to the G.Ramanathan days of rich usage of Carnatic music" in this song - how would you expect a composer to compose a song for a situation like that of the song "Kandupiduchen" from GURU SISHYAN ? give a classical Keerthanam ? give me a break ! IR used Panthuvarali (or a related Raaga) , essentially a sad Raagam to give a jolly- joyous effect - that is what creativity is all about -
  Mr.Anand, you are treading on a minefield - be careful of your statements here - if 90% of what IR gave is junk, then 25 of the 29 centuries scored by Sir.Donald Bradman were flukes !
  I can go on, but I am just tired of self-proclaimed intellectuals like you who think that others around are moronic imbeciles - if you have any doubts about your own identity, take a look at yourself in a good, clean mirror
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 18 11:44:26 EST 2000
  
  Dear Mr.Anand, Semmangudi Srinivasa Aiyar, the doyen of Carnatic music ( "The Isai Gyani title is very apt for IR - he is not only a king in film music, but also a genius in classical music - may God bless him with more Grace for his continued service to music" - this is recorded live in AVM's cassette of IR's classical compositions played by Mandolin U.Srinivas), Pt.Hariprasad Chaurasia ("IR does everything - composing, arranging,orchestration and conducting and that too without much help from others ! It was a privelege for me to have worked with him in Nothing But Wind"),Maestro. Lalgudi Jayaraman ("I was moved to tears after listening to How to Name It "), a former Principal of Kalakshetra School of Arts in Chennai ("Nobody has brought out the nuances of Raag Kedaram as beautifully as IR has done in "Pon malai pozhudu" in Nizhalgal"), TV Gopalakrishnan ("IR was/is my most talented / best student in music"), veteran composer Naushad Ali ("what IR has achieved is 100 times more than what any of us have
  achieved in this field - only time can tell the quantum of his achievements"), the late composer RD Burman ("IR is ahead of all of us by at least 10 years", after listening to "yedho mogam" from Kozhi Koovudhu), L.Subramaniam ("IR is as good as any other composer in the world"),Sir.John Scott, noted composer of English films like "Bridge on the River Kwai", "Cleopatra" ("Meeting with IR was very special for me - his was a very original music, straight from the copyists' pen - we were all very thrilled to listen to sounds, rhythms and melodies very new and very different" after recording IR's Symphony in 1993), Subbudu the famous music critic, whose acerbic comments spare none ("Nowadays Mohanam sounds mostly like Mohana kalyani - but IR makes Mohanam sound like Mohanam even though he composes film songs with it - I think IR has a mole on his back - he is a great gift of God - I am growing old- before I die, I pray that I get an oppurtunity to listen to his Symphony") - how about calling, branding all of
  these people as IR's boot lickers - would you dare to do so ? or maybe you are more knowledgeable in music than any of the doyens mentioned above !
  Tell me something, if a Physics professor teaches Newtons law of gravity by dropping a stone instead of drawing a picture of a stone falling , would you call that "TRAVERSING THE LAW OF GRAVITATION WITHOUT ACTUALLY GIVING THE NUANCES OF IT" - theory is one thing, application is different - how one uses a particular Raagam, or any concept like counterpoint,chords in Western classical music is more important than sheer theory ! even if one goes by theory, "Sangeedhamey yen dheivamey" from Kovil Pura speaks eloquent of IR's usage of Rasikapriya which prompted none other than Subbudu to say that IR "transcends time and takes us back to the G.Ramanathan days of rich usage of Carnatic music" in this song - how would you expect a composer to compose a song for a situation like that of the song "Kandupiduchen" from GURU SISHYAN ? give a classical Keerthanam ? give me a break ! IR used Panthuvarali (or a related Raaga) , essentially a sad Raagam to give a jolly- joyous effect - that is what creativity is all about -
  Mr.Anand, you are treading on a minefield - be careful of your statements here - if 90% of what IR gave is junk, then 25 of the 29 centuries scored by Sir.Donald Bradman were flukes !
  I can go on, but I am just tired of self-proclaimed intellectuals like you who think that others around are moronic imbeciles - if you have any doubts about your own identity, take a look at yourself in a good, clean mirror
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Tue Jan 18 12:07:34 EST 2000
  
  Dear Ravi,
  Sincerest apologies for the multiple postings - can you please remove the extra three postings of mine - it all happened because of my machine
  
  
• From: Meena (@ hil-qbu-ppm-vty18.as.wcom.net) on: Tue Jan 18 12:17:51 EST 2000
  
  Well said Madan,you are 100% correct.
  
  

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