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SURYA 'GRAHAN'AM FOR KARTHIK RAJA

Topic started by NITHIN SREEDEVAN (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on Sun Dec 14 16:02:02 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Sun Dec 14 16:08:26 EST 1997
  
  Karthik Raja is now eclipsing his Manickam with realy hindi stuff in Grahan. I have bought the cassette and four of the six songs are bound to be superhits. One in particular really stands out like Ek Do Teen song of Tezaab.
  
  I think it is time, we have style back in hindi music. Karthik Raja has blended very neatly into the hindi music idiom and also producing some real original stuff. However it is a question of time and exposure before we see Karthik Raja emerging like RD Burman out of the shadows of his father and also the bounds placed by the demands of acceptable musical standards of hindi film music today.
  
  Congratulations to Karthik Raja
  
  
• From: r.ravi (@ 202.54.35.134) on: Mon Dec 15 14:39:30 EST 1997
  
  Hey , the song "Kehte hain jisko" is just one of the best melodious tunes in hindi films recently.
  Kudos to KR(Karthikraaja)
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Dec 15 14:59:00 EST 1997
  
  Nithin & Ravi:
  
  "Theevira TFMers" please forgive me for talking about HFM, but since our TFM Karthik Raaja is involved in this I am posting it here :)))
  
  I was disappointed a bit when I bought the album 'Grahan' in Hindi.
  
  The first song first paragraph is good. But changes drastically in the middle.
  
  The second song I forgot the lyric is a note by note copy of IR's song in Kanmani, again unable to recollect the song. (Ramki any help here?).
  
  The third song is a disco rap but the tune is not catchy.
  
  The fourth song is again a note by note copy of his own song from "enakku oru magan pirappan" Cham cham cham aanandam
  
  Fifth I haven't heard.
  
  IMHO, I am really wondering how can KR become like RD Burman if he is copying tunes like this, even before he has composed a handful of movies.
  
  I would have appreciated both KR and the Album if all the tunes were new and fresh.
  
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Mon Dec 15 16:18:14 EST 1997
  
  Bhaskar:
  
  That song is 'Netru vantha katru enn pattai kondu vanthatha' from Kanmani.
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Mon Dec 15 16:20:16 EST 1997
  
  Bhaskar:
  
  read it as ....enn pattai kondu vanthu thanthatha....
  
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Dec 15 17:15:24 EST 1997
  
  MPR:
  
  You are right, it is the same song. Thanks.
  
  
• From: RAJAN (@ proxy-117.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Mon Dec 15 19:04:48 EST 1997
  
  "Neatru vantha kaatru" from KANMANI was composed by KR.
  Also he told that in one interview "those two songs are requested by producer and director of that film".
  
  Also in the KUMUDAM review (Title: KAATHIL VILUNTHAVAI), "Inke ketkapadamal poana antha irandu paadalkalum ankeyavathu ...."
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Dec 15 20:11:56 EST 1997
  
  RAJAN:
  
  I agree with you, it might have been composed by KR but so soon he should not be running out of tunes and creativity. He should have given an entirely different set of tunes and should have made an impression like ARR (like in Rangeela).
  
  Ingayee ketkamal pona paatai ange eppadi ketpaargal ?? :)
  
  Adhuvum namakku inge kettu pulichu pona piraghu marubadiyum ketkanumna migavum kastamaga irukkiradhu.
  
  Infact I bought this Hindi Album with lot of expectations after hearing to KR's Ullasam. He had given 3 excellent melodious songs in Ullasam.
  
  Konjum Manjal
  Yaaro yaar yaaro
  Nesam kaattrukku
  
  
  But all went in vain :((((
  
  
• From: Gopal (@ 1cust180.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Mon Dec 15 22:50:26 EST 1997
  
  This has been the style of the father and sons team of Pannaipuram. I mean the Raajas. If you look into Raaja's other language songs, in particular, Hindi, Raaja uses his old, repeated tunes in some movies. I dont remember the name of the movie, but its a Revathi starrer directed by Balumahendra, and my! I had to listen to all the hit songs of Raaja in Hindi.
  Not only tunes, but certain instruments do appear in other language movies, and they almost strike your grey cells immediately. One such example is the song "Omkaaradha kantey" from the Kannada movie "Namoora MandhaarahoovE". The prelude toward pallavi has the same set of instruments (time, beat etc., for a few seconds)like one particular piece in India 24 hours.
  I have a very strong feeling that Raaja does this as he is not interested in churning out a new set of rhythm, intruments, etc., in a movie other than tamil. probably, if i can delve into this subject, i shall certainly come out with info substantiating my point. After all, his notion, may be, is that guys across the state borders arent gonna buy the stuff!! Except the real IRcore fans!!
  In any case, a repetition of this kind need not be appreciated, and a guy like KRaaja has to outsmart others through way of out of the world tunes and not with established ones.
  But, i have been following the trend. ARR has done that in his VandhE Matharam (POraalE Ponnuthaayee,.....) and he says "i love it"
  Deva does it in style, as everyone knows......
  (Sorry, OFFTRACK!!I think he is the only MD in India to secure the copyright of all of the songs, along with other MDs!!)
  
  But, should this repetition be allowed?? I would so no!!
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ algw1.lucent.com) on: Tue Dec 16 00:18:34 EST 1997
  
  Gopal: You are right! I guess it might be "Paramparai Pazhakkam" When they give music to non-tamil album they think that only non-tamil people will buy and listen to it. That is the reason they copy tunes and pieces of music. Another example is recently IR has given music to a Kannada Album called "Prema Raaga Haadu Gelathi" in which there is a theme music which is beautiful with Sax and Violin but it is the same as "Oru naal andha Oru naal" from Devadhai.
  
  Digression from TFM, but this is for IR "theevira fans": There are two very melodious songs in that Kannada Movie.
  
  1. Ba baareee, Ohhhhhhh Gelathiiiiiii, Ninagagiyeee Mana Haadidheeeee Baaaaaa, edheolage jeeva neenu, manadholagee bhavaa neenu Meaning for NOV: Vaa Vaaani, enn kanmani, unakagave manam paadudhe vaa, en manadhin uyir neeye, en thudippin raagam neeye.
  
  2. Malle hoovamale mudidhu, aa mela thala mudisi, oh chinna na kai hidivee Explanation for NOV: Kanne poovum malaiyum pottu, melam thalam thatti, naan undhan kai pidippen :))
  Indha irandu paadalgalum migavum arumaga isai amaithu irukiraar IR.
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Tue Dec 16 00:59:51 EST 1997
  
  Bhaskar:
  
  Come on, ARR also have done that often. FYI, in Rangeela, do you remember the song 'Yaaro Zu..'? It's a remake of one telugu song. I don't remember the song, but the movie is Super Police, which is utter flop in AP (i'm talking about the songs alone not the movie). Then again in Kabhi na kabhi he has done it.
  
  People like ARR are doing only less than 5 movies per year and still redoing their work. On the other hand IR used to work for 30 movies a year and you are complaining about this redoing stuff? I'm not saying that is right but don't blame IR only for this and make the statement like 'Parambarai pazhakkam'. That's too much!!!
  
  Gopal:
  
  That hindi movie is 'Ek Aur Prem Kahani' (Am I right here? )
  
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Tue Dec 16 01:01:43 EST 1997
  
  Sorry for the typo.
  
  ARR also has done .....
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Tue Dec 16 01:08:17 EST 1997
  
  rahman not only copies his songs into hindi but has also lifted tunes from the past.notice the similiarity between the foll songs:
  
  1.vennilave vennilave from Mkanavu------hame pyar de pyar de pyar de de hame pyar de from an amitabh movie(i think it is sharaabi)
  
  2.kuchi kuchi raakamma----- definitely influenced by senthamizh thenmozhiyaal.notice the similiarity in tune between the lines 'parukida thalai kunivaal'from the original song and 'pombalaikkum
  ? pudikkum" from ARR's song
  
  3.mukkala mukkabula-atleast the first line from
  'pyar hua ikraar hua'.
  
  4.the opening drums beat in 'akkada' song from indian and another song in 'love birds' i don't know exactly are similiar to each other and also
  to paul young's 'love of common people'.
  these are some of the examples
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Dec 16 10:31:03 EST 1997
  
  MPR:
  
  Since IR had done it before and now KR is doing it, I used those words, may be it had a stronger meaning than what I thought.
  
  I will take that back :)
  
  
• From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Tue Dec 16 19:54:08 EST 1997
  
  I am modifying my posting on Grahan. That album is definitely getting stardom for KR. I am sorry guys, I have not listened to the earlier versions of the songs. My first posting came after listening to the cassette only once.
  
  I am now hearing all the songs about 10 times each day in the last 4 days. SIDE B has three songs which will clear the skies. Side B song 4, 'Dilruba' and song 6, 'Godhe Main, Godhe' have got songs of the decade material. The compositions are of a new class, style and future.
  
  Why I am declaring in this manner, is because you should hear the energy levels in these songs. It is out of this world. Songs 1, 2 and 3 will also be superhits, while 5 'Chul, Chul' is bound to be a mega hit close to '4' and '6'. Believe me. You can't beat that energy. The songs are perfection, class, and display maturity beyond belief. KR will succeed as the successor to the Raja.
  
  Anyone knows the reaction in Indian to Grahan's songs? Reaction here in the shops is awesome.
  
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Wed Dec 17 00:27:12 EST 1997
  
  Nithin:
  
  The songs 'Dilruba' and 'Godhe Main, Godhe' are from Grahan? I have the CD with me but it doesn't have them. Just curious :-))
  
  Nithin, hope you were in India when Grahan was released. so tell me how is the reaction in India?
  
  Bhaskar:
  
  I haven't heard the song 'Thum thum' from 'Enukku oru magan pirappaan'. How is it in tamil? And about Grahan songs, I don't know hindi a bit. So I asked one of my friends about the quality of lyrics in Grahan songs. He said it is not up to the level. And if you ask me about the album, I would say this is the best effort from KR. I can see he is trying something new. May be he can succeed as the successor to Raja like Nithin said. But I don't think it's going to be easy. He has a long long way to go.
  
  What do you think about the song Kavita singing with children? I would definitely say this song is better than any Rangeela song. I think this is one of the best from KR with very good orchestration and chorus. I would like to hear something like this from KR on continuous basis. Can he do it? lets wait and see!!!
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Dec 17 14:18:56 EST 1997
  
  MPR:
  
  The song Cham cham cham aanandham is an OK song in Tamizh. I would have heard it for about 3-4 times. I guess Karthik (Actor) sings in between which is not very good. Since those lines require a lot of modulations and Karthik was not able to keep up to that.
  
  I guess KR has reused a lot of music from Ullasam for Grahan. The beats are old stuff from Ullasam. Nothing seemed to be new. If you hear to Chandiranai thottadhu yaar and Kayill midhakkum songs in Rakshagan the beats are completely new and different.
  
  KR seems to use the same sounding beats.
  
  
• From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Wed Dec 17 15:35:36 EST 1997
  
  Hi, I watched Ratchagan this weekend and what a Horrible movie that was! What a waste of huge Money!!!???!!! Some comedy scenes were good but the audience were laughing through the entire movie not for the comedy but for everything else.
  I have heard the song "Chadiranai Thottathu Yaar, Amstronga?" several times but when I heard it in the movie, immediately I was reminded of some other song and after several minutes of "Mundaiyai Pichufying" I remembered the song. The similarity is at the lines in the middle of the song which goes something like this,
  "Thanana Thaanathanna Thanana Thaanathanna Thananaa Thaanathanna" which sounded just like, the song from "Kizhakku Seemaiyiley" which goes something like this,
  "Anney Poi Varavaa, ?????? Poi Varavaa"
  (Sorry about not giving the correct lyrics of the lines that I am referring to).
  
  I still like the song and thing it is the best song of "Ratchagan" but somehow this resemblance disappoints me. Now, everytime I start singing one song, I somehow end up shuttling between the two songs.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ faculty2.ece.sc.edu) on: Wed Dec 17 19:03:52 EST 1997
  
  chup chup chup from grahan seems to be having a slight resemblance to poo poo poo poo pootha from'pudhu nellu
  pudhu naathu'.
  
  
• From: Sandya S. Krishna (@ dynamic34.pm06.mv.best.com) on: Thu Dec 18 21:13:47 EST 1997
  
  In response to several views here in regards to Karthik Raja recycling Tamil Songs ("Cham Cham" from "Enakkoru Magan Pirappaan" and "Netru Vandha Kaattru" from "Kanmani).. there is actually only one explanation for it! Or so, me thinks :-) The fact that North Indians and many who speak Hindi have not listened to Karthik's tamil songs probably makes him feel that he has the liberty to
  use these songs in Hindi.
  
  Obviously, 'tough luck' for those of us who listen to Karthik's Tamil and Hindi music. We will just have to bear with both versions. But all things considered, it is indeed NEW music to North Indians and they are indeed the target audience of "GRAHAN" the Hindi film.. definitely not us! (Unless, they decide to dub "GRAHAN" into "GRAHANAM" in tamil, and we get to hear "Netru Vandhu Kaatru" all over again!).. I tell you, it is definitely a vicious cycle :-)
  
  Sandya
  
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ algw1.lucent.com) on: Fri Dec 19 01:08:50 EST 1997
  
  Sandya: Welcome to TFMDF.
  I agree with your comments. But we being listening to Tamizh music for so long, especially of AMR, MSV/TKR, IR which are totally different from one another. Expect that an MD should atleast have the talent of creating new tunes every time he gives music to a new movie.
  
  IR even after 850 movies or so gives very different music every time. from Kaadhal Mariyathai is excellent. You just can't make a similarity to any of his tunes before. It's totally different.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ algw1.lucent.com) on: Fri Dec 19 01:12:22 EST 1997
  
  Sandya: Lynx Browser ate away some of my words. I will reword it. Ennai thalatta varuvaaloo from Kaadhalukku Mariyathai is excellent.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ algw1.lucent.com) on: Fri Dec 19 01:18:42 EST 1997
  
  Amar: Naan thappichen :)) Annikku Rakshagan padathukku varalai :)
  
  Nithin: Enna saar, innum MPR question-kku badhil kaanom ???
  
  Neenga endha Dilruba vai solreenga, ennudaya Grahan cassetteilum andha naadiri paattugellam illai :)
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ algw1.lucent.com) on: Fri Dec 19 01:21:27 EST 1997
  
  Typo: Indha timela muzhuchhi irundhaal idhudhaan problem, naadiri illai maadiri.
  
  
• From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Fri Dec 19 02:30:00 EST 1997
  
  ithukkuththaan solrathu, Hindi paattu kEkkaatheengannu :-))))
  
  Bhaskar
  
  Your comparison is very valid. ARR is defenitely less repetitive than KR, atleast in terms of beat.
  
  

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