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Advantages of composing prewritten lyrics

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on Tue Aug 12 11:51:47 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

While listening to many old songs, the advantages of prewritten lyrics for composers and singers became evident. I will start with two examples and we can add more as we discover them.

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Responses:

• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on: Tue Aug 12 11:59:28 EDT 2003
  
  male
  maadhamoa aavani
  mangayoa maangani
  naalilae nalla naal
  naayagan vendra naal
  
  The above lines end with a deliberate pause. I can only see the next four lines as a brilliant resolution by the MD and singer to accommodate the lyrics. This stanza is a telling example of how prewritten lyrics lead the MD to find unusual and often times very creative solutions to render the lyrics.
  
  female
  naalilae ondruthaan
  naanamum indruthaan
  naayagan ponmani
  naayagi paingili
  
  PS sings the first 2 lines as completing the previous 4 lines and sings the next 2 lines as a new statement. So much nuance, so much intuition goes into these lines that the song doesn't seem contrived or manufactured as lyrics often tend to be when they service an existing tune. I'm convinced that these lines wouldn't have achieved this beauty if the tune had been set before the lyrics.
  
  Another benefit to prewritten lyrics is the singer gets to pour sangathis to curb, stretch, and shape the lyrics to a delectable degree; with someone as dexterous and innovative as SPB it becomes a feast.
  
  A prime example of unleashing the singer's creativity through prewritten lyrics:
  
  Male
  maalaimalar pandhalitta maegam
  mangayidam sangolikkum raagam
  kodi nagai pinnalitta dhaegam
  gopuraththil yaetri vaitha dheebam
  (just the variations in the way SPB divines maegam, raagam, dhaegam, and dheebam would be enough for a song to be memorable, but there's more...)
  
  kaarga malar koondhalilae ilanthendral vilayaadi oada,(the way ilanthendral vilayaadi is sung, there's more sangathi and creativity here than I've heard in years, it just about galvanizes me)
  kali paakku vetrilayai poala
  varum sevvaayin isaipaadal paada
  
  Female singing swarams
  gama gama gasa
  mama mama maga...(the swarams are probably to make a quartet out of the stanza in the song which matches the next 2 lines, again this wouldn't have been thought of without the lyrics already in place)
  
  Male
  ival thirumagaL
  suvaitharum magal
  
  thinam naan paadum sringaara kalyaani
  
  (maalai...)
  
  Female singing swarams
  
  Male
  gnyaanamazhai veenayudan
  maharaani kalaivaani vandhaaL,
  nadamaadum thirukovil thandhaaL
  kalai nadhiyaaga radhiyaaga nindraal
  
  Female singing swarams
  gasa gaga gasa
  mama pama maga
  
  Male
  nagai oru vagai
  isai aval kadhai
  
  aval naan meettum
  sringaara kalyaani
  
  (maalaimalar...)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Tue Aug 12 12:21:53 EDT 2003
  
  Excellent observations Udhaya. Keep going.
  
  Actually, prewritten lyrics pose a challenge to the MD, because they have often a uniform poetic structure. See for instance, Madhamo Marghazhi.
  Iruseer viruththam?
  
  It is the creativity of the MD that turns this challenge into an opportunity. So, by being monotonous structure, they force the MD to be creative!!!!
  
  Another famous example is the rhyme like structure of
  
  Ore oru oorilae ore oru raaja
  Ore oru raajavukky ore oru raani
  
  See how KVM turns this into a beautiful tune.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Aug 12 12:27:09 EDT 2003
  
  Both methods have their advantages/disadvantages I believe. It depends on the composer's style and various other factors. Mahendra Raj had written about the evolution of different composing styles in his wonderful set of articles. I forgot the word for it, I think it is "thaththagaramaana" murai(correct me) or the method of setting a tune first and writing lyrics to it. This was followed until the late 50s it seems when Kannadhaasan challenged it and changed the way things were being done. And then in the late 70s when IR tok the reigns he went back to the older style of doing it.
  
  With this method(tune for lyrics) the composer as Udhaya has rightly observed is forced to come up with innovative gamakams to link lines. Also chances for repetition of chandams go down. With composing tune first there is a good chance that a MD can unintentionally repeat chandams from his earlier compositions. So in certain ways composing for prewritten lyrics, I would say, is also an indirect advantage for the MD :-), depends on how you look at it. It poses a challenge to come up with a tune within the lyrical constraints and on the other hand it reduces chances of repetition.
  
  I think MDs should ideally attempt both methods in equal measure. Composing tunes first has its own advantages in that, when the MD has a spark/idea for a pallavi he can develop the song on his own spontaneously without having to wait for the lyricist. Music making should be a spontaneous act. So in some ways composing the tune first is a good thing as well.Also much like how composing a tune for the lyrics is a good exercise for the MD, composing goood lyrics for a tune should also be taken up as a challenge by the lyricist. Thats why I wish that Kannadaasan had lived a few years more. Would have been interesting to see how he would have worked with IR.
  
  (I am not sure how many of his songs for IR were tunes set for lyrics or vice-versa. Would like someone to come up with statistics on this)
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Aug 12 12:28:04 EDT 2003
  
  dig: Rjay I had revived the compsing secrets thread, but you are nowhere to be found :-)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on: Tue Aug 12 12:39:53 EDT 2003
  
  rjay, vijay,
  Thanks for the great additions to the thread.
  
  vijay,
  I absolutely agree that the MD is in many ways helped with prewritten lyrics. I also agree that all parties involved--MDs, lyricists, singers--should balance their work with preset lyrics and preset tunes. I'm certainly not trying to up*hold one way of doing things (even MSV/Kannadhasan's "Vann nila nila alla" was written after the tune was set), rather I realized the subtle joys that are created when tuning prewritten lyrics.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Aug 12 12:51:09 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya, its like this. If I were the MD, and if I am presented with a run-of-the-mill Ramarajan story or paandyarajan story withn the same trite situations I would be clever and ask the lyricist to do his job first and see if the lyrics inspire me in any way, because I know that the situations/storyline is not going to inspire me at all. I feel IR or any other MD should have done the same or should be doing the same when they run a blank. In such situations if you sit down to compose the tune first there is a good chance that you repeat one of your earlier tunes . An example would be how "kuyilu kuppam kuyilu kuppam gopuram aanadhenna"(Kumbakarai thangaiah?) became "thooliyile aada vandha vaanathu min villakke" or vice-versa without change in either the tune or the meter :-)
  
  A couple more examples from MSV where he came up with tunes first for lyrics written later:
  
  Poomalayil or Malligai(pallavi slightly inspired from a Naushad flute piece, MSV mentioned this in a recent Jaya TV programme "mellisai mannarin isaipayanam")
  
  Ponnenben siru poovenben
  
  remember reading it somewhere before..I am sure there are many more.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Tue Aug 12 13:21:42 EDT 2003
  
  let me chip in, when composing for prewritten lyrics.
  
  Advantages
  1. Since the meaning quite clearly known before hand, emotions in the song will be easy to identify for the composer. composer has the "picture" in hand.
  
  2. For most Artists (atleast me), as a composer tunes will flow better for prewritten lyrics.
  
  3.With the above point we can experiement with different tunes until we hit the best one.
  
  4.The writer gets his freedom and so the composer here, both can do what ever they want.
  imo, I feel creating music is much more flexible than writing lyrics.
  
  Finally a major point,
  5.Inspires the composer, a good lyrics makes them think better. Like wise poor lyrics also brings them down, it can be cleared by ask for changes of words, writers will be happy to change as they dont have a tune to fit words
  
  The only limition here is lyrics will not be in sandam, at times "kadupa irukum",
  composer needs to work on it, however he has the choice to the change it with the lyric writer consent. But 99 out of 100 lyric writer follows a clear pattern that can be easily composed.
  
  
  
  on composing tune first...
  1.first and fore most limits creativity of both, the composer and the lyric writer.Composer is happy with lesser number of tunes. might not be his best. Lyric writer is taxed to the core. He has to compromise words that does not fit in the sandam. They are often forced to Find words that does not really match other lines.Music dominates lyrics,
  
  2.Tune often gets repeated.
  
  
• From: Srik (@ 64.80.98.165) on: Tue Aug 12 13:28:00 EDT 2003
  
  adding one more point.
  a Lyric writer is more flexible to change words,
  however a composer is often stubborn (including me :), I will never want to remove or change anything, an in born fear for musicians that they might not get the same idea again. But the truth is often they will get better tune when they start changing it.
  
  
• From: Mahati (@ 160.231.5.146) on: Tue Aug 12 13:36:22 EDT 2003
  
  Srik, your experience in song making process and your posting in various threads qualifies to compile them into a book.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on: Tue Aug 12 13:47:49 EDT 2003
  
  Mahati,
  Great idea. Instead of "How to" books with a CD-ROM, we can have a "How to" book with an audio CD attached.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Tue Aug 12 14:18:41 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay, Srikanth,
  good points.
  
  A good composer should be capable of doing both
  equally well. Same way a good lyricist should be
  capable of doing both.
  
  IR, with roots in WCM, strongly prefers the motivic variation, leading to cut-and-paste-type short phrases, which challenge writers. Interesting he also has used lots of Thiruppughaz like chandams! Finally, his capability in tuning
  prewritten lyrics have not made a big mark on me
  in Bharathi (except for the gem of a song Nirpathuvae).
  
  As Srikanth points out, tune is the more abstract component in a song, so it is more easier to alter than lyrics.
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Tue Aug 12 14:19:29 EDT 2003
  
  vijay
  
  Thanks for reminding. Over the weekend I was thinking about your question and forgot to update the thread on Composing secrets. Will do it now...
  
  rjay
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Tue Aug 12 14:43:48 EDT 2003
  
  "Finally, his capability in tuning
  prewritten lyrics have not made a big mark on me
  "
  
  rjay,I would first like to know how many songs were tuned for pre-written lyrics by him before coming to a conclusion. One would have to listen to atleast 100-200 songs in that category before coming to any sort of conclusion, not just based on a couple of songs.("manadhil urudhi vendum" from Sindhubairavi is probably another example.I thought it was excellently composed, but I am looking for more)
  
  The bottomline though is as long as the MD and the lyricist are of high calibre they can will find ways to inspire each other and come up with a better product irrespective of the method used. That being said, the reason I suggested that the MD has to compose in both methods in equal measures is to just have a variety of stimuli rather than sticking to any fixed pattern.
  
  

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