Raga of song please

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Raga of song please Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: TFM group (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat May 17 07:44:13 EDT 1997

Yaaro yaar yaaro, a melodious song from movie Ullaasam sung by Maestro Raaja and Bhavathaarini sounds like bordering around some commonly heard Carnatic raaga. Can someone say what it is?
Re-posted by TFM Group
From: S. Muralikrishna (@ 204.220.167.106) on: Wed May 21 08:05:51 EDT 1997

I'm a fan of TFM group. I sincerely appreciate the work that is being done by the group. I would like to know how I could help/contribute with the piece of knowledge about Tamil films that I have. I would also like to know the raaga of the song semboove poove (siraichalai).Please respond. I'm a native of ERODE(Periyar District).
From: TFM group (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Thu May 22 02:42:42 EDT 1997

Hi Muralikrishna,

"Sempoove poove" follows the Suddha Dhanyasi scale
with few accidentals.

Thanks for your interest.
From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Thu Jun 19 17:08:23 EDT 1997

The first interlude of Yaaro evar Yaaro, is a straight lift from Haydn's 'Concerto for Trumpet and Orchestra'.
From: Suresh R. Mani (@ slip129-37-207-167.in.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Jun 29 13:32:48 EDT 1997

HELP....! could somebody please tell me the Ragam in which the song KAADAL KAVIDAIGAL PADITHIDUM NERAM from the film GOPURA VAASALILE is composed (My guess is Mayamaalavagoulam, and I'm a novice!).
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Sun Jun 29 20:29:22 EDT 1997

Yes.. kaadhal kavidhaigal is based on MMgowla
From: TARANI (@ jester.ti.com) on: Thu Jul 24 00:56:23 EDT 1997

HAI, WHY NO NEW SONGS LIKE SONG'S FROM ULLASAM,ETC

THANKS.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 24 12:43:08 EDT 1997

Tarani, what was your question about new songs ? Couldn't follow you.
From: R. Suresh (@ slip129-37-207-67.in.us.ibm.net) on: Thu Jul 24 22:09:20 EDT 1997

I think I'm getting addicted to this site. Thanks to all the knowledgeable who are making this so interesting.
please help me with this,
Are there any good songs in Gowri Manohari raga ?. Is Nanda en nilaa in GM ?.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Thu Jul 24 23:15:37 EDT 1997

I do not know whether 'nandhaa en nilaa' is in GM. But 'gowri manOhariyaik kaNdEn' (mazhalaip pattaaLam) and 'paattum naanE baavamum naanE' (thiruviLaiyaadal) are based on GM.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj02.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jul 25 10:57:11 EDT 1997

Does "En Veetu Thoatathil" from Gentleman based on just Neelambari? What are the other ragams in the song?

Also, does "Marugo Marugo" from Sadhi Leelavathy set to any ragam?

Does "Nilavu Oru Pennagi Ulavuginra azhago" from Ulagam Sutrum Vaaliban follow any ragam?

How about "Kaadhal Kaadhal Kaadhal enru pesa" from Utharavinri Ullae Vaa--it sounds like a Hindustani tune?!
From: saketh vijayaraghavan (@ chem-mac-75.rutgers.edu) on: Fri Jul 25 15:35:57 EDT 1997

"Marugo Marugo" from sadhi leevavathy is based on the ragam "Durbar-Kaanadaa". There are many songs based on this ragam. some songs on this raga are "Chinnanchiriya vanna paravai ennatthai solludhamma" (from kungumum), "sivasankari, sivanandha lahari", "mullai malar mele" (from Utthama puthiran"), "Aagaya vennilave tharai meedhu vandhadheno" (from Arangetra velai), "valarndha kadhai marandhu vittaal"(from Kaathirundha kangal).

This ragam is very close to the ragam kaanadaa, sometimes difficult to distinguish. Some of the songs i know based on Kaanadaa are "Poo maalai vaangi vandhan pookkal illaiye" (from sindhu bhairavi), "ponnenbhen, siru poo enbhen" (from police-kaaran magal).
From: Suresh .R. (@ slip129-37-207-167.in.us.ibm.net) on: Fri Jul 25 23:03:11 EDT 1997

Is Malare mownama from Karna in Raag Darbaari too ?

I remember vaguely, probably in one of the forums on Rahman's works, I came accross the mention of En veetu thotathil in Dharmavati (probably, then again I may have got the song wrong !).
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Fri Jul 25 23:32:33 EDT 1997

I think there is lot of confusion over what is kanada and what
is darbari kanada., esp. in the ragas in film songs list collected
over the net. To me

Kanada:
Mullai malar mele
poomaalai vaangi vanthaan
maarugo maarugo

Darbari kanada:
chinnanjchiriya vanna paravai
sivasankari
malare mounamaa
aagaaya vennilaave
kalyaana thenilaa
taj mahaale(periya thambi)
...
The list is quite big, if one starts collecting all the songs.

"Ponnenben" starts like Darbaro kanada...
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Fri Jul 25 23:33:49 EDT 1997

suresh,
the dharmavati song you refer to must be "ottagathai kattikko"
From: Arvind (@ 204.245.93.102) on: Mon Jul 28 11:32:23 EDT 1997

R.Suresh

I think

Kavidhai arangerum neeram in Antha 7 natkal follows Gauri manohari
From: nat (@ yckam009036.netvigator.com) on: Sun Aug 3 09:44:15 EDT 1997

Can someone tell me the raga of " narumugaiye narumugaiye" in the film nerukku ner? i guess this vaghadeeswari?

who is the female singer in this song??

also what is the raga of " vennila vennila vennilave vandhathey mudhar kaadhal" ( sung by Asha bhonsle)?

Thanks
From: Pagalavan Krishnamoorthy (@ mb.cisco.com) on: Fri Aug 8 14:11:52 EDT 1997

It looks to me that "naRumugaiyE.." is based on "naattai". Can some experts clarify? BTW its from "iruvar".
From: Kanchana (@ ww-ty01.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 8 14:42:56 EDT 1997

The female singer in "Narumagaiyae" is Bombay Jayashree. The song is supposed to be a mix of Naattai & Gambeera Naattai.
From: Arvind (@ 204.245.93.102) on: Tue Aug 12 10:41:59 EDT 1997

en vettu thottathil -- from gentlemen is based on Senchurutti
From: Kanchana (@ ww-td42.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 12 12:02:00 EDT 1997

Arvind:
Doesn't "En veetu thotathil" start out in Neelambari?
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxy7.cyberway.com.sg) on: Thu Aug 28 01:22:25 EDT 1997

I would like to know the ragas for:

1. Sendhoora Poovae (16 vayadinilae)
2. Puttham Pudu Kaalai (Alaigal Oyvadilai ?)
3. Azhagiya Tamil Magal Ival (Kumarikottam ?)
4. Thaamarai Kannangal (Edhir Neechal)
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Thu Aug 28 21:52:03 EDT 1997

Chandrasekaran

I know only one - 'azhagiya thamizh magaL ivaL' is from rikshaakkaaran. raagam......?
From: Kanchana (@ ww-ta05.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Sep 25 16:26:55 EDT 1997

What is the ragam for yaeri karayin maelae poaravaLae penn mayilae by TMS?

Also, ARR fuses multiple ragams in ennavaLae from Kadhalan? what are they?

A side-bar question: I was impressed with the way Kadri obtained gamakam from the saxaphone which is technically not capable of producing the degree of gamakam we heard in the Duet movie songs. How did he do this? Was it a special sax?
From: aruLArasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Sep 25 17:07:50 EDT 1997

yErik karaiyin mElE,i think, is karaharapriyA. (I may be wrong
because I haven't listened this song nor any karaharapriyA in a
long while now.)
From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp05.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Sep 25 17:41:57 EDT 1997

maadhavip pon mayilaaL from Iru MalargaL (MD: MSV) is pure Karaharapriya. Does yaeri karayin maelae sound like that? I'll test it out today. Thx.
From: Suresh R. Mani (@ slip129-37-207-241.in.us.ibm.net) on: Thu Sep 25 19:48:18 EDT 1997

Kanchana,
Yaeri karaiyin maelae poravalae.. is predominantly in Aarabi with the intrusion of Devagaandhari and Shudda saaveri (as analysed by a musician on T.V.).
An observation : Penn Mayil (Mayilaal !) thogai virikkuma ? (periiiiya paandiyan sandegam !)
From: Suresh R. (@ slip129-37-207-241.in.us.ibm.net) on: Thu Sep 25 19:50:45 EDT 1997

Is the humming before ennavale from Kaadhalan in Simmendra Madhyamam ?
From: aruLarasan (@ newton.umsl.edu) on: Fri Sep 26 13:27:11 EDT 1997

Thanks Suresh for correcting me. mAdhavip pon mayil thOgai
virikkumA? I am trying to remember the meaning of mAdhavi. Having
tough time. There is a thiruppAvai song that has this word. Can
anyone identify? That might shed some light on your doubt.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Sep 26 15:48:11 EDT 1997

Arularasan:
Can I make a guess? Ma + dhavi.. Maperum dhavathai seydhavaL. Or does this Madhavi refer to the "Kannagi Kovalan Madhavi"? And Of coursey, a peaHen(peN mayil)l does not have thogai and since Madhavi refers a female , this uvamai sounds odd. Anal kavignar aaN mayiludaiya azhagai mattum Nagayudaya azhagirkku oppidugiraar pOlum!
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Sep 26 15:57:12 EDT 1997

Sorry typo:(avasaramaaga adithuvittu appuram ennada ippadi aagavittadhE endru thiru thiru vendru muzhikkavendi irukkiradhu! TFM Group,spelling mistakes collect panra madhiri oru parser kandupidiyungalEn. :-)))

Arularasan idhai thiruppi padiyunga:
Can I make a guess? Ma + dhavi.. Maperum dhavathai seydhavaL. Or does this Madhavi refer to the "Kannagi Kovalan Madhavi"? And Of course, a peahen(peN mayil) does not have thogai and since Madhavi refers to a female , this uvamai sounds odd. Anal kavignar aaN mayiludaiya azhagai mattum Nayagiyudaya azhagirkku oppidugiraar pOlum!
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sat Sep 27 14:22:54 EDT 1997

I differ cp. mAdhavi is a sanskrit word (like mAdhavan). In
thiruppAvai there is a line that goes like

mAdhavip pandhalmEl palkal kuyilinangaL kUvinakAN

I am not able to recollect the whole song. Will try to find
the answer tonite and come back tomorrow.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-te61.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Sep 28 01:46:44 EDT 1997

Suresh:
Thank you answering my previous question on yaeri karayin maelae. Can you recall any TFM with Simmendra Madhyamam or Devagaandhaari or Shiddha saaveri? Thx again.
From: Ravy (@ ww-tp06.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Sep 28 09:42:09 EDT 1997

Kanchana:

As far as I know Anandha Ragam from Panner PushpangaL is Simmendra madhyamam.
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Sun Sep 28 12:36:06 EDT 1997

What is the ragam of 'poojaikkaaga' from kaadhal Oviyam?
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sun Sep 28 20:00:00 EDT 1997

kAtROdu kuzhalin nAdhamE - what a great song. Can write a thesis on
this one.

nI pourNami endRum en vAzhvilE - yEshudhAs does an excellent job.
swaram and sAhithyam mARi mARi varum.

Both these are simhEndra madhyamam. Other two I don't recollect
any now. Will have think for some time (days?).

Coming back to mAdhavi: mAdhavi means mullaik kodi. that's why

mAdhavip pandhal mEl palkAl kuyilingaL kUvinakAN.

Therefore mAdhavip pon mayilAL thOgai viriththAL seems to just
jibberish. I would suggest let's not continue this discussion anymore here.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Sun Sep 28 21:33:03 EDT 1997

Kanchana,

Sim. madhyamam:
Ellaam inbamayam(MLV, Leela) - Manamagal

One more recent song
taj mahaal thevayillai - amaraavathi

There are many songs using shuddha saveri notes.
(Ref: film song-raga list )

Ravi,
poojaikkaaga is based on Malayamaarutham.
From: Suresh R. (@ slip129-37-207-140.in.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Sep 28 22:20:54 EDT 1997

Kanchana,
I guess Thamthana Nanthana raagam varum in Pudiya Vaarpugal is in Simmendra Madhyamam. The devotional that T.R. Mahalingam sings in Thiruvilayaadal at the Lord's sannidhi (It goes some thing like .... Kallaagi Kaniyaagi...would somebody please help !) is probably also in S.M.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Mon Sep 29 01:08:31 EDT 1997

"thamthana namthana" is based on shanmuga priya.

are you referring to "isaithamizh nee seitha"
in Thiruvilayaadal? I guess not, because
it is in Aberi.
From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Mon Sep 29 04:53:06 EDT 1997

Suresh & Rajarama - Could it be Kaathalaagi kasinthu kanneer perugi? I think this one is from Pattinathaar.
From: Suresh. R (@ slip129-37-207-212.in.us.ibm.net) on: Mon Sep 29 18:37:22 EDT 1997

Rajaram,
Isai thamizh.. is sung after the king orders Pana pattrar to challenge the visiting musician. I'm talking about the one that is sung when Paana pattrar is introduced.
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Oct 16 15:44:52 EDT 1997

from yesterday evening i am trying to identify the rAgam of

irukkum idaththai vittu illAdha idam thEdi
yengengO alaigindRAr gnAnath thangamE.

let me show my ignorance once again. those two lines (only which
i remember) sounds bordering on sAmA. but anybody know the correct rAgam?

thanks in advance.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Oct 16 21:43:47 EDT 1997

The next line is

avar yethum ariyaaradi gyanath thangame

yes.. it does sound like saamaa, but I'm
not sure since I don't remember the full song.
From: ram (@ p32.umd.edu) on: Sat Oct 18 21:29:06 EDT 1997

well, I am a lover of music and I listen to various carnatic and film music. I want to know whether there is a site which lists film songs with respect to raga. If any of u know about such a site , send the address.
thanks
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Sat Oct 18 23:36:53 EDT 1997

Ram

you'll find one such list (with some errors)
at
http://www.iti.gov.sg/staff/kanagasa/tfm/classical.html
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sun Oct 19 13:13:23 EDT 1997

Thanks Rajaraman,

I am still waiting for someone else who is sure to confirm our doubts.

aruLarasan
From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com) on: Tue Oct 21 14:53:56 EDT 1997

Yesterday I was listening to a keerthanai in
raga "Shanmughapriya". I was wondering if
"Maraindhirundhu paarkum marumam enna?" from
Thillanaa mohanaambaaL is based on this raga.
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Oct 21 17:14:48 EDT 1997

It is.
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Oct 21 18:17:09 EDT 1997

There are some excellent oldies in shaNmukapriyA.

ninaindhu ninaindhu nenjam uruguthE - sadhAram

kurangilirindhup piRandhavan manidhan - balE pANdiyA

are the two that's alltime favorites of mine. I don't consider
the newer ones like thamthana thamthana thALam varum (puthiya
vArppugaL) are not that great sp-s.

can anyone confirm if irukkum idaiththu vittu illAdha idam thEdi
engengO alaigindRAr gnAnath thangamE is sAmA?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Wed Oct 22 00:18:38 EDT 1997

"kurangilirunthu piranthavan" is from Thookku thooki. (bale paandiyaa song is "neeye enakku
endrum nigaraanavn": suddha dhanyaasi)
TT has another wonderful song "sundari soundari"
based on Kurinji.

From the carnatic angle, "thamthana namthana"
and "kannukkul nooru nilavaa" are not great.
But I think one should appreciate the non-traditional
use of SP scale in these songs.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf6.cyberway.com.sg) on: Wed Oct 22 01:46:54 EDT 1997

Arularasan, I know one song in SAMA ragam which is,Mounathil Vilayaadum Mana satchiyae..
from the movie Nool Vaeli sung by BMK. But I do not know the song you mentioned is SAMA but I feel the song is set in SindhuBhairavi.
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Thu Oct 23 17:57:53 EDT 1997

Another great song based on sAmA is "naan paadikkonde iruppaen, un pakkatthunai iruppaen", from the movie "sirai".
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf8.cyberway.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 24 04:24:06 EDT 1997

Kanchana

Khadal, Khadal endru paesa... song is based on the raaga 'DHARMAVATHI'. OtherDharmavathi songs, : Ottagathai Kattiko, Hello My dear wrong Number (manmadhaleelai), Meendum Meendum Vaa (Vikram).
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Sun Oct 26 16:58:24 EST 1997

I think the song "meendum meendum vaa" from Vikram is based on the raga Madhuvanti, closely related to Dharmavathi
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Fri Oct 31 18:01:59 EST 1997

I would like to know the ragas for the following songs

1. Samudra raaja kumaaraa! suga pushpa sukumaaraa! (looks like Aberi) (from Engal Vaaddhiyaar)

2. nalam thaanaa! nalam thaanaa! udalum ullamum nalam thaanaa!! (from Thillaanaa mohanaambaal)

3. Senthaazhampoovil vandhaadum thendral en meedhu modhudhammaa! (what a song!!!), from mullum malarum

4. Poovil vandu modhakandu poovum kalgal urum
(is it mohanam?) from kaadhal oviyam
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Fri Oct 31 20:04:33 EST 1997

1. paattu gyabagam illa(romba romba naal munnaala
kettathu). will try if i listen to it again.

2. saramathi
3. i don't think there is any unique raagam
in this song.

4. yes.. mohanam. Beautiful song. The composition
sweeps thru all 3 octaves.

p.s: saketh, are you interested in updating the
raga-song database? I'm looking for some volunteers. If interested, pl respond by
email.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf8.cyberway.com.sg) on: Fri Oct 31 22:41:38 EST 1997

Rajaraman, Saketh

The song no2 (nalam thaana) is based on Siva Ranjani. Song no3 (senthazham poovil) is largely based on PooBalam with slips.
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq104.dubuque.net) on: Sat Nov 1 22:59:16 EST 1997

Is the song 'Neelakuyile unnooduthan pannpaduvEYn, nathapunalil andradamthan neeraduvEYn ' from Magudi in PooBalam ?
From: vijay (@ 3b37mac1.che.sc.edu) on: Sun Nov 2 01:47:22 EST 1997

hi saketh,
samudra rajakumaara looks definitely closer to suddha danyasi.
nalamthaana is definitely not saramathi.it might be some soga raaga like siva ranjani.as u can see it comes closer to 'tere mere beech me 'in ek tuje ke liye and also' kanmaniye peesu' in kaaki chattai.
From: Shashi (@ 192.198.34.168) on: Tue Nov 4 14:49:46 EST 1997

hi Murali,

neelakuyile... from magudi is in MALAYAMAARUTHAM. The S, R1, G3, P does remind one of bhupalam but the D2, N2 define malayamaarutham.

hi Vijay,

Kanmaniye peesu.. from Kakhi chattai has notes on the Keyboard which would be defined as "JHANKAARADHWANI". However, since I have never heard this raga being performed by a classical musician, I cannot define its raga lakshanam for sure. Clearly, by the notes used it is a sampoorna raga and belongs to the above melakarta scale.

hi Rajaram,

One more addition to the 'cine song-raga collection". Vizhigal medaiyam, imaigaL thiraigaLam, Kaathal naadagam arangil erutham, Julie I love you.... is based on REVATHI raga.
The other day I was listening to Kadri performing REVATHI on his sax and lo & behold my mind directly linked it to the above song. Raja!!
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Tue Nov 4 20:33:36 EST 1997

welcome back shashi!

Is N2 used in "Neelakkuyile"? If so, pl tell me
the exact place where it is used.
Murali, it's of course not bhoopalam because
of D2.

"vizhigal medyaam" was composed by T Rajender, for
your info. It's from the movie Kilinjalgal.
"mandhira punnagai minnidum menagai" is a good
REvathi by MSV.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Tue Nov 4 20:54:35 EST 1997

Somebody told me that 'nIlakkuyilE' (magudi) is based on a vague raagam called rasikaranjani. BTW, is the song 'amuthE thamizE' (kOyil puRA) also based on the same raagam? The two songs have something in similar.
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Thu Nov 6 16:38:42 EST 1997

One more addition to raga-song database: the song "Aasai kiliye, ara kilo puliye, azhugina thakkaaliye!!!" is pure Arabi.(though the lyrics is absurd).
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq129.dubuque.net) on: Thu Nov 6 21:37:47 EST 1997

Thanks Shashi and Rajaraman. What is this N2 and D2? I use to find out ragam only by 'Khelzvi gjaanam'. So, 'Neelakuyile' and 'Kanmani Nee Vara
Katthurutheyen' are based on the same ragam M.Marutham.

One more to Raga-song database:
'Tulli tulli Nee padamMaa Seethaimma' is based on
Madyamavathi. A great song and a nice picturisation. Any other IR songs on M.vathi?
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq129.dubuque.net) on: Thu Nov 6 22:11:47 EST 1997

What is the ragam for 'Nee oru kaadhal sangeetham' from Nayakan?
From: vijay (@ 3b37mac1.che.sc.edu) on: Fri Nov 7 00:07:42 EST 1997

murali,
IR is a total stud in madhyamavathi.some of his other gems are
anandha then sindhum poonjolayil-mann vaasanai
sembaruthi pennoruthi-raman abdullah
one song from 'aan paavam'by MV
nee thaane enthan ponvasantham-ninaivellam nithya
and so on...
vijay
From: vijay (@ 3b37mac1.che.sc.edu) on: Fri Nov 7 00:11:24 EST 1997

one more special addition
the song 'thom thom thom tha nandhath thom thom'
by KJ from sindhu bhairavi is the only song based on kanakaangi in TFM.the credit goes to the great IR.
vijay
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 7 00:41:22 EST 1997

Murali
As far as I know, "neelakkuyile" has only five
notes S R1 G3 P D2. In which part do you see
M.marutham saayal?
In the song "kanmani nee vara", the phrase
"P D2 N2" comes right in the first line and
confirms M.marutham.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo4.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Nov 7 03:48:00 EST 1997

What is the raga of the following song ?

Mannavanae, Mannavanae
Manasukkettha Chinnavanae
Kanni thamizh thanae, Unaithaanae,Ninaithaen.
From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Nov 7 17:17:30 EST 1997

Vijay:
I think the song "Paartha vizhi paartha badi"
in Guna is also based on Kanakaangi. Isn't it?
Once again composed by IR
From: vijay (@ faculty2.ece.sc.edu) on: Fri Nov 7 21:21:46 EST 1997

i think the guna song is based on 'bhavani' according to sources on the internet
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo7.pacific.net.sg) on: Sun Nov 9 19:37:28 EST 1997

Is the song, 'aala pole, valae pole, aalam vizhudu pole' in Ejamman set to KEDARAM ?
From: KumarVenkat (@ hk20.superlink.net) on: Fri Nov 14 14:34:11 EST 1997

Pending question: Raagaa of Neeyoru Kaadhal Sangeedham. My guess is KALYAANI.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf11.cyberway.com.sg) on: Sat Nov 15 07:02:01 EST 1997

Kumar Venkat, yes, Neeyoru Kaadhal is Kalyaani. But I think it does not use D2. Experts pls clarify
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Sat Nov 15 11:41:44 EST 1997

chandrasekharan
aalap pol veelap pol is based on the raga
shankarabharanam.
vijay
From: Chandrasekaran (@ proxyf10.cyberway.com.sg) on: Sat Nov 15 18:45:24 EST 1997

Thanks Vijay. But does this song use all notes of Shankarabharanam?
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq120.dubuque.net) on: Wed Nov 19 22:26:46 EST 1997

Thanks KumarVenkat.

Rajaraman Avargale,
Sorry for the late reply.
I dont know how to identify ragas by notes. I am interested in learning. I made the statement on
what shashi said before in this thread. Can you
recommend any good books to learn carnatic music
by notes?. According to you what is the ragam for
'Neelakkuyile'?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Nov 20 00:12:54 EST 1997

Murali avargale,

IMO, it's very difficult to learn to swaramize
by reading books, without formal training in
classical music. It comes out of practise.
(May take years for many.)
You may use the notes posted on "Learning
keyboard" as a starting point.

Honestly I don't know the name of raga name
for "Neelakkuyile" (Aamaam.. intha Ilayaraja mohanam
scale eduthukittu ethaavathu voru note-ai flat/sharp
panni paattai potruvaaru. Athukkellaam
raagam peru kekkarathaa..)
But someone said the name is Rasikaranjani.
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Thu Nov 20 14:00:05 EST 1997

Is it Sahana??

Sahana is not a very common raga as far as the tamil film music is concerned. The most popular song on based on this raga is "Paarthaen,sirithaen, pakkathil azhaithaen," from the film Veera Abhimanyu. i think there is one more song (do not remember the lyrics) in Azhagan.

Any way, as i was listening to some sahana krithi, the following song struck me:

This is from the film Karnan; the situation is at the mahabharatha battle,(do not want to spend so much time on explaining the situation) and lord krishna gives Geethopadesam to Arjuna. He starts from "maranatthai enni kalangidum vijaya!!!" which is a very good Naattai ragam and then goes into some other ragam.

After which, he starts " ennai arindhaai!! ella vuyirum enathendrum arindhu kondai!! kannan manadhu kal manadhandro!! kaandeepam nazhuva vittaai!! mannarum naane!! makkalum naane!! maram chedi kodiyum naane!! sonnavan kannan!!! solbavan kannan!!! thunindhu nil!!! dharmam vaazhga!!!"

I think this is Sahana. Seergazhi has done a great job. (who will forget his Kalyaani "amudhum thenum edharku").
From: Vijay (@ indy08.gl.umbc.edu) on: Thu Nov 20 16:54:15 EST 1997

I think 'nElakkuyile' is based on the rAgam with the notes s r2 g p d3 s' - s' d3 p m r2 s.

Somthing similar to 'karnAtaka suddha sAveri' but with the g instead of m. Should be called 'bhoop' something?!

PS: I am recalling the song out of memory and could be wrong with my assessment. Is there an on-line recording of this song?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Nov 20 20:28:35 EST 1997

Vijay, I guess you are referring to some other
song.

The song we are referring to is from Magudi.
I'm 100% sure it uses the following notes:

S R1 G3 P D2

Shashi says N2 is also used. He is not to
be found to reconfirm this. where is he??
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Thu Nov 20 21:23:57 EST 1997

Chandrasekaran & Kumar Venkat

'nI oru kAthal sangItham' starts with something which has striking resemblance to kalyANi. (Refer the beginning of 'ammA enRazaikkAtha' - mannan). But does it continue in the same raagam?
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq119.dubuque.net) on: Thu Nov 20 22:44:17 EST 1997

Thanks Rajaraman..( Neenga sollarathapatha
Ethellam varaathu polaurukke..) Anyway let me
make a beginning.

.Aamaa..Do you think these MD's when they compose, they start with a pure Carnatic base..? I dont think so. They may dilute lot of these ragas..That is the reason why this discussion is lively..
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 21 00:12:49 EST 1997

(This is a discussion posted on a different thread. We'll continue it here.)

--
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo4.pacific.net.sg) on: Thu Nov 20 19:36:44
EST 1997

Aravind,

The swaras (notes) taken by Lalitha and Vasantha are the same. The
Hamsanandhi raagam takes the same swaras as Lalitha and Vasantha except
for M. Hamsanandhi uses M2(pradhi madhyam) whereas Lalitha / Vasantha
uses M1(suddha madyam). IR has used both M1 and M2 in those songs
liberally.
Hence it is difficult to say whether it is Lalitha or Hamsanandhi. As the tune is
more towards Hamsanandhi, I referred those songs to Hamsanandhi.

From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Nov 20 19:43:43 EST 1997

Let me add my bit to it... The name of the heroine in 'unnal mudiyum thambi'
is lalitha. So IR is supposed to have composed that song in that ragam.

From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Nov 20 20:22:09 EST
1997

Ennappa solre Chandra..

Vasantha - janyam of Suryakantam (uses D2)
Lalitha - janyam of MMgowla (uses D1)

This is an important and the distinguishing factor between these two ragas.
Also, in vasantha, R1 is used only on the descent. (This usage is a truly
wonderful. Listen to Semmangudi.)

Pl don't compare them with Hamsanandhi. The M2
is enough to differentiate the two, world apart.
Sorry if i sound flaunting... This is the truth.

I found in some other thread, you mentioned
senjuruti is a janyam of S.baranam. Sorry
again.. it's a janyam of Harikambhoji(uses N2).

From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo6.pacific.net.sg) on: Thu Nov 20 22:23:56
EST 1997

Rajaram

You may be right. As majority of film songs are not based on pure raagas
(especially these two songs), the arguments on Raagas will definitely arise.
My views are based on the following books

1. RaagaBhavartham (by Natyacharya Rajoo)
2. Carnatic Raags (by Dr. Bhagya Lakshmi)

The first books says Lalitha and Vasantha are the same raagas but after a
period of time, musicians started to diffrenciate. This book is available in
Libraries.

I agree with your view on Senjuriti.

---
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 21 00:26:07 EST 1997

chandra
I too have read something like this somewhere, but
there are old enough compositions on both lalitha and vasantha. If what you say is indeed true,
it must be a really ooold notion.

Now to "Not based on pure ragas":
I don't agree with this for Lalitha. I think
the ragam is brought out quite nicely in
this song. (For "andhi mazhai", it's definitely
not so.)
BTW, have you listened to "natanala bramayakku"
of MSS (Annamacharya Kritis Vol II) ?
Ilayaraja seems to have been inspired by this
kriti. They are so similar!
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo10.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Nov 21 02:39:40 EST 1997

Rajaram

Alright. What about Raathiriyil Poothirukkum ? It uses both M1 and M2 and still called Hamsanandhi.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 21 04:15:01 EST 1997

I can't answer this because I have not analysed
this song to see M1 usage. It must be a
just-come-and-go kind of one. (Cinema
paattu-la ithellaam sagajam, esp IR songs.)
But, overall, the hamsanandhi picture is quite
clear in this song. No need to confuse with
others.

btw, we have not discussed Basant. It's a kind
of combination of Hamsanandhi and Vasantha!
e.g. thesulaavuthe(Manaalane M.bhagyam)

To me, "Andhi mazhai" sounds closer to Basant
than others.

Ithe maathiri innum rendu raagam Hindustani-la
irukku: Sohini, Marga..

Appaa! aala vidunga...
From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Nov 21 17:10:26 EST 1997

Rajaramaa,

Have you analysed Andhi Mazhai in your keyboard
as yet ? If so do you see any anniya swaras and
whether it follows the vakram in Vasantha properly ?
I happened to hear an Yesudas casette which had
a ragam called triveni. It resembled "Kanna varuvaya" song so much. Clarify your knowledge of
this song too.

Mukund
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Nov 21 21:05:54 EST 1997

Mukund,
No I haven't analyzed "andhi mazhai" so far, but
Kannaa varuvaayaa(M.Uruthi vendum) is a straight-fwd
Gowri manohari.
From: vijay (@ rascal.ece.sc.edu) on: Sat Nov 22 02:03:50 EST 1997

sangath thamizh kaviye from manathil urui vendum
is it raga baageshwari?this is one hell of a song

also is maasi maasam suddha dhanyaasi?
vijay
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Sat Nov 22 07:15:47 EST 1997

Sanga thamizh kaviye is a ragamalika.
Suddha dhanyasi, amrithavarshni raagamellaam
varuthu. Don't remember all of them.

yes, maasi maasam is based on S.Dhanyasi.
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq107.dubuque.net) on: Sat Nov 22 11:54:04 EST 1997

Is Thodi a popular ragam for in TFM? I remember one song 'Gangaikarai mannannadi...' from Varusham
16.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Sun Nov 23 02:25:50 EST 1997

I had a chance to listen "nee oru kaathal
sangeetham" closely today. It's based on
saranga.
From: Bharat (@ neptune.bt.com) on: Sun Nov 23 11:08:44 EST 1997

Hi,
I'm a new entrant but like the topic very much.
Thx 4 the raga of "thom thom thom tha nandhath" by KJ as its my favourite. I would like to know the raga of "En than nenjil neengatha.." - a beauty of
KJ-IR from Kalaignan. One another song in that movie is "Dil bar jaani.."-Hindustani type of raga. Please clarify what are the ragas for these
two...
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq114.dubuque.net) on: Sun Nov 23 16:16:17 EST 1997

"En than nenjil neengatha.." is based on raga
Nalinakanthi. I dont know about the song "Dil bar
jaane..".
From: T.R.Sankar (@ 199.86.135.113) on: Wed Nov 26 06:04:53 EST 1997

"'Malai pozuthin Mayakkathile" (PS Bagya Lakshmi") what raga?
Since it uses both M1 and M2 it can't be hindolam"and it has shades of "Madhukauns"and "Sumanesa Ranjani also?
.
IR doen to have too many songs in "DESH"and "Bageswari"! any takers?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Wed Nov 26 08:26:39 EST 1997

TN Sheshagopalan mentioned a vague name for
the raga in "maalai pozhuthil". Maybe it
was SumanesaRanjani.

"Vizhiyil puthukavidhai padithen" - Intha
oru paattu pothum DESH-ukku !

BTW, was listening to "mannavane mannavane"(thanthu
vitten ennai) today. It looks like Devagandhaari.
(Could be Arabi.)
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Wed Nov 26 22:28:21 EST 1997

RR

antha pAttai nIngkaLum kEttIngkaLA... what a song....
From: T.R.Sankar (@ 199.86.135.113) on: Thu Nov 27 07:08:24 EST 1997

I have not heard "Vizhyil".Which film it is?
Pothume pondra varthaigal than IR I complacent akkiyathu.
What about Bageswari /? I have something in mind.
Ennulil engo from Raosppu ravikkaikari has shades of Bageswari or i am inferring too much?
MSV has a fairly long list .
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.132.143) on: Thu Nov 27 07:56:12 EST 1997

"Vizhiyil puthu kavithai padithen" is from
Theertha karayinile(?).

("Onnum pothum"-nu sonnathai ippadi interpret
pannitteengale.. : )

"ennullil engo" is Madhuvanthi/Dharmavathi.
Superb usage of M2 irukke.. It's not
Bageshri.

IR has some Sriranjani's to his credit, but
Bageshri... I can't recollet any.
From: T.R.Sankar (@ 199.86.135.113) on: Thu Nov 27 08:30:03 EST 1997

MSV has not used "Vivadi"ragams.He will convert them to regular Hindustani ragas like Thilang and desh..Since IR uses Vivadi he has not much DESH scores.
buT Bageswari,sahana and Sama (except METTI Brahamandan song) have not been IR's ragas.
Even thilang he has as far as i remember only 2 scores.
1.sindu Bhairavi Manathil uruthi vendum
2.Some vague Pandiyan movie in which a erumai madu played a major role.
these are eseentially Ragas expressing "Sringaram and Karunai".
Thanks for Ennulil engo .I did not get my sound right.
Is "Vennilave (2)"MK is in raag Vagulabaranm (14)
Raja has got umpteen sriranjani but very few Abhogi.
(Endraikku ... only)
From: T.R.Sankar (@ 199.86.135.113) on: Thu Nov 27 22:59:37 EST 1997

Mr.Ramki I had mentioned a wrong song earlier.The song i had in mind was "En Ragangal engu ellam padalgale"(SJ) .This sounds like Bageswari.

The song also resembles Hariharan& Lezz's "SA NI DA PA MA"(CC)
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo1.pacific.net.sg) on: Fri Nov 28 00:11:36 EST 1997

Is Muthu Mani Maalai (Chinna Kavundar) Bhagesri ?
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Nov 28 00:22:22 EST 1997

chandrasekharan,
no it is not baageshwari,but it sounds like sindhubhairavi
vijay
From: Ravi (@ hope.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Dec 2 17:21:18 EST 1997

Some of the postings have been lost. :(. Well most of it is here though.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo8.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Dec 2 19:35:08 EST 1997

T R Sankar

I tried Anbu Nadamaadum Kalai koodamae on my keyboard. The notes taken by this song are: S,R2,G2,P,D1,D2,N1. I do not find the presence of Bouli in this song.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Tue Dec 2 20:15:45 EST 1997

I agree with Chandra. The song doesn't sound
like Bowli. I'm not sure about the notes, but
I feel there are some anya swaras.

Does anyone know of film songs in Pilu, other
than "vannam konda vennilave"?
From: T.R.Sankar (@ 199.86.135.113) on: Wed Dec 3 04:45:39 EST 1997

Just get me the A&A of Bowli.I am confused. I am sure i have messed up somewhere.
somewhere Mr.Rajaraman mentioned Raja's Revathi ( Sangeetha Jathi mullai).But when "Kanavinil nindru ...
"Varumapothu there is D1.the latter half drags to all swaras because of "Prose". You can say "Predominantly Revathi " or "Miss Ra ( Miss panniya) Revathi".
Some of my crucial (!) findings seems to have been lost.
MSV has got 2 Hemavathi scores.(the much publicised Hemavathi was by Vidyasagar "Ye shabba").Has Raja got Hemavathi? With his regular use of Karaharapriya there should be some.
T.R.Sankar
From: Rajaraman (@ mailhub.iti.gov.sg) on: Wed Dec 3 08:56:50 EST 1997

TRS
Yes.. sangeetha jaathi mullai is not a pure Revathi.
IR has a Hemavathi to his credit. It's available
in one of the Classical Ilayaraja posts. If you
can't find it, I'll post it by tomorrow. Now I'm
posting this from a VT100 terminal.
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Wed Dec 3 17:12:13 EST 1997

what is the raga of the song "indira logatthu sundari raathiri kanavinil vandhaalo" (looks like Sri/madhyamaavathi)?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Wed Dec 3 20:15:14 EST 1997

Hemavathi by IR is from "Puthupatti ponnuthaayi".
The song: "manam pola maangalyam". I think it
was sung by Chitra.

Saketh,
I don't think it's Sri. Madhyamaavathi is a good bet.
Talking about Sri, Is there any film song at all?
I know one by MSV: "sugamaana raagangale"(Mridanga
chakravarthy). It starts out with Sri and later
drifts to other ragas(kalyani, ranjani, g.manohari)

Vidyasagar has recently tuned a madhyamavathi.
"aanandham aanandham aanandham vanthathe"(murai
maaman?)
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo5.pacific.net.sg) on: Thu Dec 4 19:45:33 EST 1997

SriRanjani is a beautiful raaga and it is handled nicely in Naadhamennum Kovilalae (Manmadha Leelai). Anyother songs in this raaga?
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Dec 4 20:24:38 EST 1997

More Sriranjani:

Naadham ezhunthathdi(KJY,SJ) - Gopura vaasalile
thannan thanimayil(Kuzhuvinar) - kaathal oviyam
Naadha vinodhangal(SPB,SPS) - Salangai oli

I vaguely one recent Sriranjani by IR. Anyone
remember?
From: Mukundan (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Dec 5 18:52:22 EST 1997

Hi Rajaramaa,

Is it 'Mandhiram Idhu mandhiram thinam thorum'
sung by Yesudas ?

Bye
Mukund
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.83) on: Fri Dec 5 22:06:12 EST 1997

Mux
Ithu enna padam-paa?? Naan kettathillai.
From: Chandrasekaran (@ palo9.pacific.net.sg) on: Sun Dec 7 19:54:05 EST 1997

One more SriRanjani by T.Rajendar:

Vasantha Kaalangal
Isaindhu paadungal

Is, Ponnai Virumbum Boomiyilae, Mohanam ?
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Mon Dec 8 03:31:36 EST 1997

Mukundan (Rajaraman also)

'manthiram ithu manthiram' from 'aavaarampoo' is indeed sung by KJY.
From: Mukund (@ 199.97.2.3) on: Mon Dec 8 11:36:22 EST 1997

Hi Aravind,

My question to Rajaraman was whether it was
Sriranjani. Anyway, thanks for reminding the movie. I forgot that.

Bye,
Mukund
From: Ramaswamy Gireesan (@ m42.m59.big.ac.at) on: Tue Dec 9 18:28:07 EST 1997

I protest, your honour. IR does have a bagheshri to his credit (though a minor one at that).

the classical eve-teasing dappanguththu

'vaadi en gappankizhange' from alaigaL Oyvathillai
From: Vijay Hariharan (@ indy24.gl.umbc.edu) on: Thu Dec 11 17:13:25 EST 1997

Response to 'vAdi en kappakizhangE'. I don't agree
with classifying this as bAgEshrI. Even if it does
has the same scale as bAgEshrI(I haven't checked), where are the 'patented' bAgeshri usages?

-Vijay Hariharan (too many Vijay's here!)
From: Ramaswamy Gireesan (@ m42.m59.big.ac.at) on: Fri Dec 12 11:32:32 EST 1997

OK, consider the first few lines in the charanam. I dont remember the lyrics, but the tune goes something like this :

d2 d2 n2 s
d2 d2 m1 p g2
g2 m1 d2 p
g2 m1 d2 p
g2 m1 g2 m1 g2 r2
g2 r2 s r2 s
m1 g2 r2 g2 r2

To me sounds like Bhageshree (as I said, a minor one ... :-) )
From: Bharat (@ neptune.bt.com) on: Fri Dec 12 14:15:03 EST 1997

Is it possible that "Kalaivaniye" song from
SindhuBhairavi doesnt hav Avarohana as claimed in
the film? What is the raga of this song?

Bharat
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Dec 12 21:39:58 EST 1997

Bharat,
Yes, it's an aarohanam only song. You
can call it Kalyani/2
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Mon Dec 15 14:05:02 EST 1997

Is the song "Yaen Pirandhaai mahane, yaen pirandhaaayo" (sivaji ganesan from "Bhaaga pirivinai") set on Mukhari? somehow i find similarity of this song to Mukhari-s "kanavu kandaen naan kanavu kandaen" , "vaada malalae, thamizh thaenae", and "pogaadhae, pogaadhe en kanavaa".
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Tue Dec 16 00:55:19 EST 1997

The song 'ennaith thAlAtta varuvAlO' from kAthalukku mariyAthai sounds similar to 'mottu vitta mullak kodi' from indru nI nALai nAn. Are they based on the same raagam?
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Tue Dec 16 00:59:20 EST 1997

'ennai thalaata varuvaalo' also sounds similiar
to 'sandana kaatre' from 'thanikaaturaaja' in terms of raaga and also small similiarities in BGM.someone clarify.
vijay
From: D.srikanth (@ 181.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Dec 17 19:20:06 EST 1997

Hi
I tried playing sandana kaatri
it sounds more like gowri manohari
From: arvind (@ nhv-ct2-22.ix.netcom.com) on: Wed Dec 17 23:46:56 EST 1997

i am illiterte wrt carnatic music, i find the following songs belong to the same raaga

seer kondu vaa -- vaazhkai
ore naal -- ilamai oongalaadugirathu
kanmaniye peesu -- kakki sattai
intha maan -- karakattakaran
o vasantha raaja -- neengal kettavai
ninaithathu yaaro --

i think that this is tha fav raaga of raaja, my friend told me that it is Pahaadi, can anyone please claify,
From: Raja Mahadevan (@ 204.6.58.2) on: Thu Dec 18 17:21:04 EST 1997

Hi, This is my first mail to this group. I have been
a regular to your site.
Please visit the following site to find the ragas
to most songs. Great site

www.cs.jhu.edu/~kumar/other_stuff/music/songs_to_ragas.txt.

Can anyone tell me the ragas to the following
songs:

Naan Unnai Serndha selvam - PB Srinivas & P Susheela from Kalai Koil.

Naan Nandri Solven En Kangalukku - from
Kaathirundha Kangal - This film has great songs.

- Nandri -- Raja M.
From: Raja Mahadevan (@ 204.6.58.2) on: Thu Dec 18 17:24:13 EST 1997

Hi, This is my first mail to this group. I have been
a regular to your site.
Please visit the following site to find the ragas
to most songs. Great site

www.cs.jhu.edu/~kumar/other_stuff/music/songs_to_ragas.txt.

Can anyone tell me the ragas to the following
songs:

Naan Unnai Serndha selvam - PB Srinivas & P Susheela from Kalai Koil.

Naan Nandri Solven En Kangalukku - from
Kaathirundha Kangal - This film has great songs.

- Nandri -- Raja M.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Dec 18 20:28:02 EST 1997

Arvind,

Intha maan - Mohanam
Ninaithathu yaaro - another pentatonic scale(mohanam again?) with accidentals. The usage is very typical of IR and has done quite a few similar songs.
kanmaniye pesu - i guess follows a very uncommon scale.
I have to listen to others again, to confirm
if they are really pahadi. But appadi theriyalai
enakku.

"kannukku kulamethu"(karnan) is pahaadi.
There are many many hindi songs based on
pahaadi.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Wed Dec 24 04:57:15 EST 1997

rajaraaman,
what are IR's hits in abheri?have u heard thes
song 'ennai thottu pinni konda mannan peru ennadi,enaku solladi,vishayam ennadi' from a karthik starrer in 1992?is it reetigowlai or abheri?
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Wed Dec 24 12:52:24 EST 1997

vijay,

i know about this song "sindhu nadhikkarai oram, andhi neram" in the movie Nalladhoru kudumbam. I think it is Aberi and i think it is IR.

what about the song "abhinaya sundari aadugiraal, en aasai kanalai moottugiraal".(song by sirgaazhi sivasidhambaram?) nice song. is this also by IR? i do not remember the movie.

MSV & other yesteryears MDs have got quite a number in Aberi
From: Pagalavan (@ pkrishna-pc.cisco.com) on: Wed Dec 24 14:21:41 EST 1997

vijay

The name of the Karthik starrer is unna nenaichchEn paatu padichchEn ennaith thottu is my favourite song.
From: srikanth (@ 158.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Dec 24 15:59:07 EST 1997

Hi,
Rather than Abheri Raja 's favorite is Sudha Danyasi, there are quite a few numbers in Sudha Danysi than in Abheri
From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Thu Dec 25 00:37:30 EST 1997

Dear Mr.Mukundan,

"Mandiram idhu mandhiram dhinandhorum " sung by K.Jesudas, is from " Avaarampoo " - music by IR - this song is based on Raag Desh.

Now for queries -

What is the raga on which " Unnai naan arivaen, yennai andri yaar arivaar " from Guna is based ? what a song ! especially the way the song ends with a Hindustani type rendering of aalaapana - it is ecstatic!!

Madhan , Goa.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.74) on: Thu Dec 25 09:17:46 EST 1997

Vijay
I don't remember any distinct Aberi's of raja
right now. Of course, he has plenty of S.dhanyasi's (pure as well as just scale-based
ones.)
He has quite a few Karaharapriya's too.

"ennai thottu", on a quick recall, sounds like
S.dhanyasi.

saketh

"abhinaya sundari"(mridanga chakravarthy; sivasidhambaram, VJ) is by MSV. Looks like Hamsadhwani to me.
From: Kumar Venkataraman (@ cache-eb.superlink.net) on: Fri Dec 26 15:59:48 EST 1997

kolusae kolusae esa paadu kolusae (baagaesri?) - enna padamaiyya adhu? - is it by IR?
From: gopal (@ 1cust247.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Fri Dec 26 18:21:14 EST 1997

1. Putham pudhu poo pooththadhO from Dhalapathi
2. Maadhavan azhaikiraan from Sri Raagavendra
3. Gaana kuyilE from PoonchOlai

These three, i believe are based on a carnatic raaga! Can someone confirm? Some more songs in this raaga??
From: Gopal (@ 1cust247.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Fri Dec 26 18:26:59 EST 1997

Can someone summarize this page and list the songs
with the raaga mentioned alongside??
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Fri Dec 26 19:07:41 EST 1997

kumar venkataraman,

I vaguely remember from a "raga discussion in tamil movies" programme (Bagesri was one of the ragas discussed) that the movie of "kolusae kolusae esa paadu kolusae" ia "oru thottil sabadham" (ramki's movie) MD is chandrabose, not IR.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Dec 26 19:50:17 EST 1997

gopal,
the songs u mentioned are in the raaga hamsaanandhi
other songs like
gnyabagam illayo-KJY-which movie?
vedam anudinamum-salangai oli
are also in the same movie.
namma thalaivar
pukundu vilayadaatha raagangal rombha kammi.
vijay
From: srikanth (@ 120.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Dec 28 21:17:59 EST 1997

Hi ,
Does Raja has any song done in Mandu?
MSV & AR has done a few,

Srikanth
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.9) on: Sun Dec 28 21:42:42 EST 1997

Saketh

'kolusE kolusE' is from 'peNpuththi munpuththi'. It was indeed a Ramki starrer under AVM's banner. You are right abt the MD. It was Chandrabose.
From: arvind (@ 208.3.135.253) on: Mon Dec 29 16:48:51 EST 1997

i beleive poova eduthu from amman koyil kizakkale and alla un anai padi from chandra lekha belong to hamsanandhi. can somebody confirm
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Tue Dec 30 00:48:40 EST 1997

arvind,
those songs are of the raga maya malava gowla
vijay
From: Gopal (@ 1cust116.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Tue Dec 30 09:57:24 EST 1997

Thanx vijay

MMGowla i presume is IRs fav raga. Can someone recollect all songs by IR?

Also is Mangai nee maangani from innisai mazhai(great one from IR) based on Dhanyaasi raga??
From: Ramkumar Perumanam (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Dec 30 12:47:47 EST 1997

Regarding IR's Abheri isn't the song 'Dasaradhanin
thirumaganai dinam dinam thozhudidu un maname' from 'Devi Sridevi' sound like 'Nagumomu kanaleni' ?
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Tue Dec 30 18:08:39 EST 1997

hai ramkumar,
thanx for reminding me the song.i used to sing the first line over and over.it was infectious.i think iot does sound like abheri.but are u sure that the music is by IR?
vijay
From: bull (@ cache3.sbs.de) on: Wed Dec 31 04:39:30 EST 1997

Hi all,
A few days back in the "sapthaswarangaL"
programme on Sun-TV, Gangai Amaran asked a guy to
sing a song in the raga "Behag". This guy sang
the song "malargaLE malargaLE". I dont the name
of the film, but its a song featuring Prabhu Deva
and Nagma in the Alps I think!
Me and a friend of mine think that it is
"saaranggaa" and not "behag". Answers anyone?

Sundar.
From: srikanth (@ 81.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Wed Dec 31 08:03:45 EST 1997

Hi,
I think the song is from Mr.Romeo,
The Raga sounds like Hamsanatham, (simlar to Thendral vandu enai thodum by Mastero)
(There are also few note touching Behag...)

Srikanth
From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Dec 31 09:06:11 EST 1997

malargaLE malargaLE is from the great fiasco by P.Vasu - Love Birds.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Wed Dec 31 14:53:53 EST 1997

gopal,
some of the songs by IR which i think are in maya malava gowlai are
1.poongathave-nizhalgal
2.thanandhana gummikotti-adhisaya piravi
3.madurai marikozhundu-enga ooru paattukaran
4.poova eduthu oru-amman koil kizhakale
5.maasaru ponne varuga-devar magan
6.allah un aanaipadi-chandralekha
7.kaadhal kavithaigal-gopura vaasalile
8.poo pole-kavarimaan(not exactly sure)
vijay
From: bull (@ cache3.sbs.de) on: Wed Dec 31 23:24:06 EST 1997

Thanks Srikanth and PG for the response.
Since the coming of "nErukku nEr" there is a
pretty big ongoing debate about the song
"manam virumbuthE". The invariable conclusion
seems to be that there is no one stable raga in
it, but a lot of "naLinakaanthi" touch though.
What say all?
Bull.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.75) on: Thu Jan 1 08:45:35 EST 1998

Bull:
I also think "malargale" is closer to saranga
than behag.

BTW, anyone know film songs in Behag? Gangai
amaran says there are quite a few.
From: saketh (@ calloway-b-asy-2.rutgers.edu) on: Thu Jan 1 15:23:10 EST 1998

Does anyone remember the song "vasantha kaalam varumoe!! nilai maarumoe!! vaigai perugi varumoe!!thuyar theerumoe!!". This is very very similar to "adhisaya raagam,aananda ragam" from Apoorva raagangal, which is based on the wonderful raga Mahathi. Is the first song also based on Mahathi? (to me, it looks like so). I do not know the film and the MD for the song? It is also a great song with a great start
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Jan 1 20:36:20 EST 1998

Saketh,

It is from the movie marakka mudiyumaa. The raga
is not Mahati. R1 usage irukku.
It sounds close to Bindumalini.
From: shivaa (@ rosrel1.hp.com) on: Wed Jan 7 12:11:03 EST 1998

Hi !

I'm a new entrant and am totally impressed by the Carnatic Music knowledge possessed by the participants. I would like to know the Ragas for the foll. songs . Can anybody help me out ?

1. KAlaiyum neeye, mAlaiyum neeye from Thenilavu .
2. thangamagan ingu singa nadai pottu from Badshah.
3. Ullathil nalla ullam - Karnan
From: S. Kumar (@ a184-l054.isc.rit.edu) on: Wed Jan 7 12:22:44 EST 1998

Hi:
I thought that "malargale, malargale" sounded like
Hamir Kalyani. Other songs in this ragam, IMO, are: Manasukkul utkarndhu.. in Kalyana agadhigal
ennuyir thozhi.. karnan
Un paarvaiyil orayiram.. Ammana koyyil kizhkkale?
naalaam, naalaam .. kadhalikka neramilai.
Kumar
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Wed Jan 7 13:05:51 EST 1998

'eriyile oru kashmir roja' by KJY is also amir kalyani.
shivaa, 'kaalaiyum neeye' sounds like banduvaraali.
vijay
From: arvind (@ 208.3.135.253) on: Wed Jan 7 13:36:55 EST 1998

u guys have forgotton one more good song in hamir kalyani

nila kaikirathu -- indira
From: shivaa (@ rosrel1.hp.com) on: Wed Jan 7 14:12:21 EST 1998

Thanx Vijay. Btw, did you guys know that "Mari Mari Ninne" was originally composed in Kambhoji by St. Thiagaraja ? I think IR has done a very impressive job of rescoring it in Saramathi.
From: bull (@ cache3.sbs.de) on: Wed Jan 7 23:34:02 EST 1998

Vijay,
I dont think "kaalaiyum nIyE maalaiyum nIyE"
from "thEnn-ilavu" is panthuvaraaLi...
Maybe Rajaraman can throw some light?
Bull.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Wed Jan 7 23:54:32 EST 1998

"kaalayum neeye" is predominantly Hamsanandhi. D1 is used in some places.

BULL: did you watch bajaj sapthaswarangal finals? The same bagyaraj, who called "malargale malargale" as behag, sang "ninnaye rathiyendru" for Jayanthasri. : ) Maragathamani gave him 2/10 and adviced him to improve his carnatic skills.

(For those confused: Bagyaraj is the name of a participant.)
From: bull (@ cache3.sbs.de) on: Thu Jan 8 03:05:28 EST 1998

Oh! Yes! I did watch the one where Maragadhamani
told him to improve his classical skills. There
was one other participant called Haja, who did
have it, though.
But the clincher was that having said that,
Maragathamani went on to sing his "n-ivEdhaa"
song which has a lot of swaras all out of place!!
Bull.
From: shivaa (@ rosrel1.hp.com) on: Thu Jan 8 12:46:54 EST 1998

Hi !

I was listening to MS's radio recitals when this particular song "Ennalloorage" by St.Thiagaraja sounded very similar to "KAlaiyum Neeye, MAlaiyum Neeye" from "Thenilavu". The raga is SubhapantuvarAli. Now, I don't know much abt 'swarasthAnAs'. I just relate the film songs I hear, to the Carnatic songs that I know and try to map the RAgAs. Could this be ?
From: S. Kumar (@ a184-l054.isc.rit.edu) on: Thu Jan 8 14:16:25 EST 1998

Hi: A few other songs that come to my mind:
Sriranjini:
Thaana vandha sandhaname.. spb,sj
oru ragam kondaadum veenai .. kj, sj
Abheri:
En en en naan maarinen.. kj, vani
(there seems to be blatant use of the patterns
of nagumomu here)
pooththirukkum vaname vaname, poo parikka idhu thaan dhiname ... unni, Uma
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Thu Jan 8 20:18:58 EST 1998

Few corrections S.Kumar.

Thaanaa vantha santhaname -> karaharapriya
"poothirukkum vaname" was sung by Hariharan, UmaR

Shivaa:
I'm sure "kaalayum neeye" is NOT subhapantuvarali.
From: Shashi (@ 192.198.34.168) on: Fri Jan 9 15:29:02 EST 1998

Hi Rajaram!

I completely missed the posting where you thought Neelakuyile...in Magudi does not have N2. You are right that N2 is rarely used except in the 1st line of the anupalavi (and charanam which is anupalavi's repetition). I think if you played the 1st line of the anupalavi i.e. Adhikaali nee paadum subha raagame (or something to that effect) you will realise that there is complex gamakam at the word "raagame". However much you try this with pure D2 alone it does not sound like the original unless you shake the note to hit N2 or just for a fraction of second touch N2. That is why I called it malayamaarutham but I agree that it is malayamaarutham without N2 for the most part.

Also, Rajaram listen to the last song Karthik Raja composed for Grahan--'Yeh sochutha hai kyoon bala idhar udhar..'--Asha and Hariharan -- a very nicely done Hamsanandhi. KR well done.

Next, Vijay had listed Thathandana kummukoti...from Athisaya Piravi as Mayamaalavagowlai. It is actually Sarasangi since it uses R2.
From: shashi (@ 192.198.34.168) on: Fri Jan 9 15:42:33 EST 1998

Sorry Rajaram!

Read the raga of the Grahan song by KR to be Hamsanaadham (S R2 M2 P N3)instead of Hamsanandhi (S R1 G3 M2 D2 N3).

For Madhan: Unnai naanariven...in Guna is a beautifully done Kiravani. Especially the Ustad in the BGM paints the perfect Kiravani with both the romance and longing (ekam, thabam.. anguish of separation etc).
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Jan 9 16:33:03 EST 1998

is oomai nenjin sontham by KJ and nee paadhi nann padhi from keladi kanmani in malayamaarutham raaga?
vijay
From: Shashi (@ 192.198.34.168) on: Fri Jan 9 16:47:50 EST 1998

Hi vijay!

Oomai nenjin sontham.. and Nee paadhi naan paadhi.. are both in the same raga close to malayamaarutham--it is called Chakaravaagam. Also chalaku chalaku selai.. is also Chakaravaagam.

I was going to mention this in another thread but I recently heard a mohan + some heroine song, which is also in Chakaravaagam. It is "Poo vaadai kaatru, vandhu aadai theenduthe, mundaanai inge, kudaiyaaga maruthe, saaral patathaal poo vedikume, eera vandukal thenkudikume, ah, oh, ah.." I dont know this movie can someone help.

Interestingly Chakaravaagam is a raga used exclusively for devotional + self sacrifice/severe penance kind of moods. Ullathil nala ullam...in Karnan is also Chakaravaagam.

But Raja!! wow uses this is in romantic and sometimes even in outright erotic themes--like the song of Mohan+some heroine (I think it may be poornima bhagyaraj)--one has to just wonder at his creativity. He has also used Chakaravaagam in the traditional devotional way in his Devotional album Geetanjali.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Jan 9 18:43:33 EST 1998

shashi,
thanx for the clarification.'poovadai kaatru'
is from gopurangal saivathillai and the heroine is radha.
vijay
From: Shashi (@ 192.198.34.168) on: Sat Jan 10 11:00:58 EST 1998

Hi Vijay

thanks for clarifying the movie. I also have to clarify another point about poovadai kaatru. It has D1 use in pallavi and D2 use in anupallavi and charanam. Hence it is not a pure chakravaagam

Also, after listening to Oomai nenjin sontham... again and playing it on the keyboard yesterday I have to agree that it is a pure malayamaarutham. You were right the first time!
From: saketh (@ calloway-a-asy-12.rutgers.edu) on: Sat Jan 10 21:38:55 EST 1998

Can anyone tell me the ragas of the following songs?

1. Yaendi muthammaa ! aedhu punnagai (from "aaru pushpangal")

2. ulavum thandral kaatrinilae (from "mandhiri kumaari")

3. kamban yemaandhaan (from "nizhal nijamaagiradhu")
From: Srikanth (@ 70.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Jan 11 10:56:51 EST 1998

Hi,

I saw a posting --
"ninaye rathiendru" - (if this is the Brathisong
the tune was set by MSV in Raga Kalyanavasantham
not as mentioned jayantashree...
(if there are any new ninaya rathiendru - I am sorry I have heard it)

Mr.Kumar -
Ulathil nall ullam uraganthu --Karnan is set to
raga Ahir Bhirav-(southners call it Chakaravagam)

Srikanth
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Sun Jan 11 20:25:56 EST 1998

Srikanth,
"Ninnaye rathiyendru" is indeed kalyanavasantham.
The reference to jayanthasri was pun intended.
I guess you didn't get the context.
From: pal (@ pc76.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Jan 15 16:08:01 EST 1998

Hi shashi,
yaa.. there are this kind of surprises from Raja many times... for ex :
1. chinna rasaavE ( walter vetrivel ) - lathaangi
2. thoongAtha vizhigaL rendu ( agni nakshathram ) - amruthavarshani

on the other hand, Panthuvaraali ( or atleast kamavardhani ) is supposed to kindle erotic feelings... but hardly used in that way... that ragam is always used for devotional feelings... finally ARR had used this ragam in such a way that kamavardhani is not a misnomer, in Rangeela! I am not sure about the words " ithni ... " something...
From: pal (@ pc76.ece.umn.edu) on: Thu Jan 15 16:13:52 EST 1998

Kaalaiyum neeyE, Maalaiyum neeye ( thEnilavu ) is a pure Basanth
From: Ramkumar Perumanam (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Fri Jan 16 11:05:55 EST 1998

To Vijay,
To my best of knowledge MD for 'Devi Sridevi' is IR. Talking about Abheri what
about the song ''Velakku vecha nerathula mamam
vandan' (Mundanai mudichu) ?
From: Srikanth (@ 99.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Jan 17 21:30:28 EST 1998

HI
I like to add to AR credit in Rageela
Yaro sunoZara ( my hindi is worse)
is tuned in Punaga varali
which is often used for snakes oriented songs by TFM MDS.. He actually did this song for a Telugu movie (Super police I think)
Later used it for Rangeela
For me this songs often sounds like Engeyum Epozuthum -BY MELISAI MANNER...

Srikanth
From: saketh (@ chem-pc-44.rutgers.edu) on: Wed Jan 21 17:00:49 EST 1998

Does anyone remember the song "kaanaa inbam kanindhadheno" from movie 'sabaash meena'.To me, this sounds similar to 'thesulaavudhe thaen malaraadhae' which is set on Basant/hamsaanandhi & vasantha. Does the above song based on the same raga?
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Wed Jan 21 18:56:29 EST 1998

IR has used punnagavaraali too in i think 'thooral ninnu pochu'.the song is yen soga kathaya kelu'.the song is actually used in a humorous situation though bagyaraj sings it as though he is terribly upset.also subhapanduvaraali used only in sad situations has been used effectively in a humorous song in guru sishyan 'kandupidichen' by raja.

vijay
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Wed Jan 21 20:23:05 EST 1998

Vijay
I listened to "vaa sakhi" yesterday. To me it sounded
closer to Siranjani than Abogi. What u think?
From: Raja Mahadevan (@ draco.eisi.com) on: Thu Jan 22 11:04:20 EST 1998

Vannakkam..

Can anyone tell me the raga on which the song
"medhuva medhuva oru kaadal paatu " sung by Chitra and SBP from the film Anna Nagar Mudhal ? Theru is based ? Was IR the md for this film?

Nandri,

Raja Mahadevan
From: Mukundan (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Thu Jan 22 11:59:46 EST 1998

Dear Madhan,

I noted your Dec 25th posting only today. To me
"Mandhiram Idhu" sounds close to SriRanjani. I feel it may be Valachi. I don't seem to find Desh
in that song. Are you doubly sure that it is Desh ?

Thanks,
Mukund
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Jan 23 01:21:21 EST 1998

mahadevan,
yes IR was the MD for anna nagar muthal theru.i'll see if it is based on raga at all.

vijay
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Fri Jan 23 08:49:55 EST 1998

Madhan,Mukundan: My grandmother once told me that mandhiram ithu is valaji for most part anyway. (enakku ithula knowledge paththaathu.. so I defer to experts.)
Vijay: ANMT's MD is Chandrabose and not IR.
From: Raja M (@ draco.eisi.com) on: Tue Jan 27 15:35:03 EST 1998

Can anyone list out the songs in a CD from U Srinivas, where he plays IR's songs. How good is this CD? I have heard about this but I have not been able to listen or have a look at this recording. Has any other carnatic musician collaborated with IR and released any material

Thanks

Raja
From: Umha Mahesh S (@ 204.31.224.216) on: Sun Feb 1 13:08:06 EST 1998

Hi anyone,

What is the ragam of "Manam virumbudhe" - neerukku ner ? is this the same as "Narumugaye" from Iruvar?
any replies please
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Sun Feb 1 21:08:40 EST 1998

manam virumbuthe a lift from 'manavyalakin' kirthanai is based on nalinakaanthi.narumugaye
sounds more like naatai.it might be even a mixture of naatai with gambiranaatai,iam not sure.it sounds closer to'innum ennai' from singaaravelan if u noticed.

vijay
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Sun Feb 1 21:30:18 EST 1998

Yesterday I was trying to play konji konji alaigaL Oda from Veera in my KB.
After an hour of playing around and getting a
feel that I got it reasonably well, I wrote down
the KB notes and started looking for a raagaa
with a similar sequence. It appears to me that
the song is MMGowla. Can some expert confirm
whether I am right?
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Feb 3 04:27:24 EST 1998

konji konji patri yaaraavadhu sollungappaa!
En maNdai vedichchidum illaatti.
From: Ramkumar Perumanam (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Tue Feb 3 12:58:40 EST 1998

According to 'Classical Illayaraja' article by
Lakshminarayanan the song is upposed to be in 'Dharmavathi' ragam. It is NOT in MM Gowla ragam.
From: umha mahesh s (@ 204.31.224.216) on: Tue Feb 3 18:33:48 EST 1998

Hi vijay,

thanks for the response. ifind the similarity between narumugaye and innum ennai enna seyyap.....

few more questions,

old song .....Mullai malar melae..........is this kaanada ?

there are lot a similar songs that i have heard...like Thenna marath thoppukulla (in movie therku theru machchan). apparam, Pudhu vallai mazhai...then our famous classical song alaipayudhe...are all these kaanada or some other ragams.
From: vijay (@ cir_94.engr.sc.edu) on: Tue Feb 3 18:55:16 EST 1998

mullai malar mele is kaanada and so are the other songs u have mentioned to the best of my knowledge.even 'maarugo' from sathi leelavathi is based on kaanada.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Feb 3 20:09:41 EST 1998

Ramkumar:

Thanks for the info. That helps me in my learning.
From: saketh (@ calloway-b-asy-3.rutgers.edu) on: Fri Feb 6 19:06:27 EST 1998

vijay and umha mahesh s,

another great song on Kaanada ragam is "poo maalai vaangi vandhaan pookkal illaiye" from the movie sindhu bhairavi.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.135) on: Sat Feb 7 02:19:51 EST 1998

malare mounama from karna is also kaanada i believe?

vijay
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.135) on: Sat Feb 7 02:35:51 EST 1998

is 'meenamma meenamma' from rajaadhi raja
in sarasaangi raga?
if so,then 'kaadhal kavithaigal' from gopura vaasalile also from the same raaga?

vijay
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.76) on: Sat Feb 7 21:27:27 EST 1998

Vijay,
malare mounama - darbari kanada
meenamma meenmma - sarasaangi .. correct
kaathal kavithiagal - MM gowla
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Mon Feb 16 13:10:42 EST 1998

Stay
From: Sockalingam (@ foxglove.singnet.com.sg) on: Tue Feb 17 07:32:53 EST 1998

hi!!
Is there a list of all those songs dicussed and their ragam and where can I access them. Ya ra vathu Konjam Sollungo please.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Tue Feb 17 20:26:07 EST 1998

This is an old list.

http://www.iti.gov.sg/staff/kanagasa/tfm/classical.html

Have to update it sometime.
From: Sockalingam (@ 165.21.83.136) on: Wed Feb 18 09:51:00 EST 1998

Rajaraman,
Thank you for the info.
Sockalingam
From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Wed Feb 18 12:59:40 EST 1998

May i know the Raagas for the following songs please ?

1. " Munnam seidha thavam unnai yennidathhil saerthadhu " - SPB, S.Janaki , MD is IR from "VANAJA GIRIJA" - beautiful gamakas in the stanzas, second interlude has a terrific flute piece - is this song based on KEERAVANI.

2. " Varudhu varudhu ilangaatru " from "BRahma"

3."Pon maaney kobam yeno " from "Oru kaidhiyin dairy"

4. "pooviley medai naan podavaa " - Pagal nilavu

5. " naal dhorum yendhan kannil nee pournami " - Devadhai.

6. " anandha kuyilin paattu " - kaadhalukku mariyaadhai.

7. " yeri kanal kaatril " - Yaatraa Mozhi => malayalam

8. " deva sangeedham " and " arunagiruna deepam " - GURU in Malayalam - what an album !!!!!!!

Madhan, Goa
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Wed Feb 18 18:28:13 EST 1998

madhan,
3. sivaranjani

5. looks like hamsadhwani(compare with sriranganaathanin song from mahaanadhi)

7. looks like simhendramadhyamam(have to confirm)

vijay
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Feb 25 20:48:13 EST 1998

I have two questions about raagaas in Carnatic
Music:

1. Suppose we take a melakarta raagam. To form a
tune we are allowed to use any of the given 7
swaras in any order. Then why do we define the
arohanam and the avarohanam at all?

2. Take a vakra raagam which has zig-zag swaras
in the arohanam or the avarohanam. When you form
a tune out of such a raagam, are you allowed to
jump the notes specified? What are the precise rules?
From: sree (@ orchid.cs.concordia.ca) on: Fri Feb 27 02:01:53 EST 1998

The foll Link has a list of songs and their ragas.
Try visting them
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/5263/mypage.html
From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Feb 27 14:54:44 EST 1998

Hi SK,

To answer you first question
1) Arohanam and Avarohanam is the most basic requirement in defining a raga, implying the ascent and descent sequence of melodic notes in one single scale. It is not that you cannot compose a song without arohanam and avarohanam, (Kalaivaniye in SB - No avarohanam), it is just that without being say, avarohanam would impose a lot of restrictions to compose a song. And to have it sound melodious would be so difficult.

That's why the generalised theory would have to need arohanam and avarohanam in its definition.

But I have not answered your question as yet !

The definition of Melakartha raga:

Contains seven swaras in its arohanam and avarohanam. They are symmetric - in the sense that arohanam is just reversed in avarohanam.
The different Melakartha ragams come forth because of the combinations available in choosing these seven swaras.

The set of swaras avaliable are
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
S R1 R2 R3 G3 M1 M2 P D1 D2 D3 N3 S'
G1 G2 N1 N2

I have placed G1 and G2 below R2 & R3 and N1 and N2 below D2 and D3, because in a keyboard they are the same frequency positions.

Looking at the above we can see that to choose 2 notes Ri and Ga from 1,2,3,4 can be done in 6 ways
and Ma can be chosen in 2 ways and similarly Da and Ni can chosen in 6 ways implying a total of 6 x 6 x 2 = 72 Melakartha ragams.

A good explanation of Melakartha ragams can be found in

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~boppe/MUSIC/PRIMERS/icmb.html

- Ramesh Mahadevan's primer on Carnatic music.
using a keyboard.

2) I am not so sure of the precise rules but my understanding is that you just have to follow the pattern specifed. Typically, in Jayanthashri you have vakram in the avarohanam whereas aarohanam is same as Hindolam's. So vakram would have to be observed only during avarohanam.

S G2 M1 D1 N2 S - Arohanam
S N2 D1 M1 P M1 G2 S - avarohanam

=> going from G2 to D1 would be G2 M1 D1 &
=> from D1 to G2 would be like D1 M1 P M1 G2.

N2 D1 M1 P D1 N2 - Not allowed, I guess
N2 D1 M1 D1 N2 - NA

Some one can come forth with the explanations for
these sequences for this example,
1. N2 D1 M1 P M1 D1 N2
2. G2 M1 P M1 G2

-Mukund
From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Feb 27 14:59:53 EST 1998

Hi SK,

Place 1 2 3 4 on top of R1 R2 R3 G3 and 5 6 7 8 on top of D1 D2 D3 N3.

-Mukund
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Feb 27 23:52:59 EST 1998

Mukund:

Thanks a lot. When you say kalaivaaNiyE
song doesn't have avarOhaNam, what do you mean?
Is it that in each line of the song there is
only pitch ascent?

I am still not very clear about the rules to
apply for vakra raagaas. In Jayanthsri
since the Arohanam has no zig-zag, does it mean
a jump from G2 to D1 is allowed? And, since
the Avarohanam has a zig-zag does it mean that
if one has to go from D1 to G2 then M1 P M1
has to be there in the middle?
From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Mon Mar 2 13:16:10 EST 1998

Hi SK,

By saying that Kalaivaniye does not have any avarohanam means that while coming down (obvously we cannot sing a song without coming down) you jump from uppper swara to lower octave swara.
Which is the incompleteness you feel when you listen to that song.

As far as the arohanam question - jump from G2 to D1 - I am not sure about the jump - but all jumps are based on the fact that the jump should sound melodious. This brings into picture the harmony between these two swaras.

As far as avarohanam - yes that is the way.

Mukund

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